Brass of Robert Hatley (d. 1585) at Goldington

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar

John Brandon

Re: Brass of Robert Hatley (d. 1585) at Goldington

Legg inn av John Brandon » 24 jan 2008 20:55:05

The "chevron between three leopard's heads" part of the arms comes
from Hawes ...

http://books.google.com/books?id=pTMEAA ... #PPA404,M1

Robert Hatley's second wife was the widow Constance (Hawes) Shepard.
She was not an heraldic heiress, however, as she had at least one
brother, William Hawes of Solihull, who had (has) descendnats. Was it
incorrect for Robert Hatley to include the Hawes coat of arms on his
brass?

John Brandon

Re: Brass of Robert Hatley (d. 1585) at Goldington

Legg inn av John Brandon » 24 jan 2008 23:30:06

Here is the original posting on this topic with a follow-up comment by
DR:

Back in '04, I posted the following:

Doug's good new book has sections dealing with the Hawes and Sheppard
families behind the immigrant Thomas Bressey of New Haven.
Generation15 in the Sheppard part of the line is (p. 649)

15. CONSTANCE HAWES, married (1st) before 1545 THOMAS SHEPPARD (or
SHEPHERD), Gent., of Maulden, Hockliffe, and Littlecote (in Stewkley),
Bedfordshire, son of William Sheppard, of Littlecote (in Stewkley),
Bedfordshire, by his wife, Alice. He was born about 1515. THOMAS
SHEPPARD left a will dated 20 Jan. 1561/2, proved 4 March 1563/4. His
widow, Constance, married (2nd) ROBERT HATLEY, of Goldington,
Bedfordshire. She was living 20 May 1574.

P.W. Hasler, _History of Parliament : The House of Commons,
1558-1603_, 2:275-76, has a bio. for Robert Hatley, M.P. (d. 1585), of
Puttenhoe and Goldington, Beds.: "m. (1) 17 Sept. 1559, Millicent, da.
of one Barre, wid. of Thomas Fairclough, s.p.; (2) 8 May 1564,
Constance (d. 1596), da. of Thomas Sheppard of Hockliffe, 1s. 2da."

I assume "Constance, da. of Thomas Sheppard" is a mistake for
"Constance, widow of Thomas Sheppard," as the 1574 will of Thomas
Hawes mentions his "daughter Hatley," not "granddaughter Hatley."

Interestingly, Robert Hatley's first wife, Millicent (Barre)
Fairclough, was the grandmother of Jane Allen, first wife of the New
England immigrant Rev. Peter Bulkeley.

+ + + + + + +

Shortly after posting this, I remember finding some little wrench in
my theory and putting it on a backburner for a while, eventually
forgetting even what the objection was. However, scrounging around on
the internet, I believe I've found the problem: there is a webpage
claiming that Millicent (Barr) (Faircloth/ Fairclough) Hatley died 14
June 1585 at Goldington, Bedfordshire.

http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bi ... epreside...

This would mean that Robert Hatley could not have had a second wife,
Mrs. Constance (Hawes) Sheppard.

However, I believe it is actually correct as I originally presented
it. For background, see the Faircloth/ Fairclough pedigree in the
_Visitation of Hertfordshire_ ...

(p. 52)
http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC2 ... s#PPA52,M1

Notice that Milicent Barr's second marriage is not addressed, but that
she had sons John, Thomas, Richard and Lawrence. I believe her son
Thomas's will is the one reproduced in the NEHGR ...

(p. 254)
http://books.google.com/books?id=MMgMAA ... +hatley%22

Notice that, at the end of the will, he mentions his father and mother
Hatley, brother Robert Hatley, sister Gertrude [? Hatley], sister
Constance Grubb, and sister Elizabeth Lenton. The following extracted
IGI records seem to tie everything together (albeit somewhat
loosely) ...

Goldington, Bedford

--Rob Hattley to Millicent Fayrecloth, 17 Sept. 1559
--Rob Hattley to Constance Sheppard, 8 May 1564
--Gertrude Hatley, bapt. 5 Feb. 1565
--Robert Hatley, son of Robert, bapt. 19 Sept. 1566
--Ursula Hatley, dau. of Robert, bapt. 7 Nov. 1568
--Constance Shepheard to Eustace Grubb, 3 July 1581
--Jn Lenton to Elizabeth Shepphearde, 18 May 1585
--Gertrude Hatley to Dive Downs, 29 July 1588

The same Herts. Visitation shows the wife of Eustace Grubb to be
Constance Shepard of Hockley, thus clearly tying the Faircloths to the
family of Thomas Shepard of Hockley, who is known to have married
Constance Hawes. Her child Ursula Hatley would be named for her
sister-in-law, Mrs. Ursula (Colles) Hawes of Solihull.

(p. 60)
http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC2 ... s#PPA60,M1

It seems clear that Thomas Faircloth's will referrer to the children
of his (former) step-father, Robert Hatley, as his own "brother" and
"sisters."

Presumably there is an actual burial record for a "Millicent Hattley"
on 14 June 1585 at Goldington, Bedfordshire. I suggest this would be
for an otherwise unrecorded daughter of Robert Hatley and Millicent
Barr.


* * * * * * * *
Dear John ~

Good news! I checked the published parish records of Goldington,
Bedfordshire today. The registers show the following events, in order
of their occurence:

1. Thomas Fayrecloth was buried 13 January 1558[/59].
2. Robert Hattley and Millicent Fayrecloth were married 17 Sept. 1559.
3. Millicent Hatley was buried 23 Sept. 1563.
4. Robert Hattley and Constance Sheppard were married 8 May 1564.
5. Gertrude Hatley baptized 5 Feb. 1564[/65].
6. Robert, son of Robert Hatley, gent., baptized 19 Sept. 1566,
sponsors: Sir Robert Cattline, Chief Justice of the Queen's Bench,
John
Gostwicke and Mary Radcliffe.
7. Ursula daughter of Robert Hatley baptized 7 Nov. 1568; buried 17
Sept. 1570.
8. Robert Hatley, esquire was buried 20 Sept. 1585.
9. Constance Hatley, widow, late the dear wife of Robert Hatley,
gentleman, lately decd., was buried 22 May 1596.

The above records confirm your belief that Robert Hatley, Esquire,
married (1st) Millicent Barr, widow of Thomas Faircloth, Gent., and
(2nd) Constance Hawes, widow of Thomas Sheppard, Gent.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

* * * * * * * *

Also, my original posting commenting on the "Porter of Lamberhurst"
connection of both the Haweses and Hatleys:

Sometimes it is interesting to note marriages within a certain social
circle, as they tend to confirm other connections. Page 363 of the
1635 London Visitation shows the marriage of John Hatley "of London,
grocer," to Anne, "da. of John Porter of Lamberhurst in Kent, Esqr."

http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/ ... index.html

The London Visitation pedigree shows John Hatley as the grandson of
Robert Hatley "of Putenho nigh Bedford." This is probably the same
Robert Hatley who was the second husband of Constance (Hawes)
Sheppard, widow of Thomas Sheppard, and daughter of Thomas and
Elizabeth (Brome) Hawes. _House of Commons, 1558-1603_, 2:275-76,
says that Robert Hatley, "of Puttenhoe and Goldington, Beds.," married
to "(1) 17 Sept. 1559, Mill­icent, da. of one Barre, wid. of Thomas
Fairclough, s.p.; (2) 8 May 156­4, Constance (d. 1596), da. of Thomas
Sheppard of Hockliffe, 1s­. 2da." Thus, the John Hatley who married
Anne Porter must have been a Hawes descendant.

John Porter of Lamberhurst (the father of Anne [Porter] Hatley) was
almost certainly the brother of Jane (Porter) Hawes, wife of Edmund
Hawes of Solihull, Warwickshire. Their father, Richard Porter, M.P.,
though usually called "of Bayham," had also been associated with Frant
and Lamberhurst, as his sketch in _HOP_ shows. The will of Jane
(Porter) Hawes' mother, Jane (Whitfield) (Porter) Quinby, mentions
"sons Arthur Bromfield­ Esq., Thomas Porter, John Porter, and daughter
Jeane Hawes" (_NEHGR_, 53:12-13).

Hence, this was the second intermarriage of members of the Porter
family into the extended family of the Haweses of Warwickshire.

John Brandon

Re: Brass of Robert Hatley (d. 1585) at Goldington

Legg inn av John Brandon » 24 jan 2008 23:55:07

Who was Elizabeth Sheppard of Hockley who married William Gervis of
Leicestershire?

http://books.google.com/books?id=Lr4KAA ... ockley&lr=

Gjest

Re: Brass of Robert Hatley (d. 1585) at Goldington

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 jan 2008 01:10:08

On Jan 24, 7:49 am, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
http://books.google.com/books?id=CBwIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA73&dq=%22robert+ha...


Theres an inscription on the previous page, for Thomas Hill
of Flitton, d. 1628, Receiver General to Three Earls of Kent.
His PCC will (91 Barrington) mentions sister Eleanor Whitbread,
nephew Garrett Spencer and many other relatives. Eleanor is
specifically
called sister in Latin, in a probate clause after the will. She was
the grandmother
of the Spencer brothers who went to New England.
The parents of Thomas and Eleanor have not been found yet.

Leslie

John Brandon

Re: Brass of Robert Hatley (d. 1585) at Goldington

Legg inn av John Brandon » 25 jan 2008 15:55:05

http://books.google.com/books?id=CBwIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA73&dq=%22robert+ha...

Theres an inscription on the previous page, for Thomas Hill
of Flitton, d. 1628, Receiver General to Three Earls of Kent.
His PCC will (91 Barrington) mentions sister Eleanor Whitbread,
nephew Garrett Spencer and many other relatives. Eleanor is
specifically
called sister in Latin, in a probate clause after the will. She was
the grandmother
of the Spencer brothers who went to New England.
The parents of Thomas and Eleanor have not been found yet.

Leslie

Hmm .... interesting.

Since Flitton is so close to Silsoe, one might have thought they were
relatives of the Hill family residing there ...

http://books.google.com/books?id=HbwKAA ... ill%22&lr=

but the Silsoe Hill arms were "Sable, a chevron ermine between three
cats argent, a crescent for difference," whereas Thomas Hill's arms
were: "On a fess between three tigers passant guardant a cross moline
between two cocks." The only similarity seems to be the three felines
in both.

John Brandon

Re: Brass of Robert Hatley (d. 1585) at Goldington

Legg inn av John Brandon » 25 jan 2008 16:20:03

One other element in all this that I find interesting is the
intermarriage of Brome of Baddisley Clinton descendants.

See p. 363 of the 1634 London Visitation for the information that
Robert and Constance (Hawes) (Sheppard) Hatley's son Robert married
Dorothy Hampden, daughter of Griffith Hampden.

http://books.google.com/books?id=h6wKAA ... edford&lr=

Griffith Hampden was son of John Hampden by his wife Elizabeth
Ferrers, who was a daughter of Sir Edward Ferrers and his wife
Constance Brome:

http://books.google.com/books?id=r3cfAA ... lr=&pgis=1

http://books.google.com/books?id=-AEOby ... errers&lr=

Hence, Robert Hatley had the following line of descent from Nicholas
Brome of Baddisley Clinton:

Nicholas Brome
Elizabeth Brome m. Thomas Hawes
Constance Hawes m. (2) Robert Hatley
Robert Hatley m. Dorothy Hampden

.... while his wife Dorothy had _this_ line:

Nicholas Brome
Constance Brome m. Sir Edward Ferrers
Elizabeth Ferrers m. John Hampden
Griffith Hampden m. Anne Cave
Dorothy Hampden m. Robert Hatley

Notice that the will of Griffith Hampden, besides mentioning his
grandson Robert Hatley, spoke of "my cousin William Sheppard of
Littlecote," which is the same family into which Constance Hawes
married for the first time:

http://books.google.com/books?id=oGMBAA ... ampden&lr=

"Constance" was an important name in this line. Robert Hatley and
wife Dorothy had a daughter with this name; and Robert Hatley's half-
brother Thomas Sheppard also had a daughter Constance (who was an
ancestress of the New England Bresseys).

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»