Edward IV: heraldic heir of Brittany

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M.Sjostrom

Edward IV: heraldic heir of Brittany

Legg inn av M.Sjostrom » 23 jan 2008 05:16:03

Nope, the heraldic succession most probably would not
follow the line to emperor Francis Joseph of Austria.

firstly, a digression.

1 Conan III, Duke of
Brittany - predecessor of duke Piers, thus not
ascertained whether even held ermine Arms

2 Bertha of Brittany
married Alan, Earl of
Richmond- predecessor of duke Piers, thus not
ascertained whether even held ermine Arms

3 Conan IV, Duke of Brittany
- predecessor of duke Piers, thus not ascertained
whether even held ermine Arms

4 Constance, Duchess of
Brittany married 2nd Guy
de Thouars- predecessor of duke Piers, thus not
ascertained whether even held ermine Arms

5 Alice de Thouars, Duchess
of Brittany married
Peter I de Dreux jure uxoris Duke of Brittany -
AFAIK, it was this duke Piers who actually took the
ermine pattern into use.



--

Then, succession from them:

6 John I, Duke of Brittany
married Blanche of
Navarre
7 John II, Duke of Brittany
married Beatrice of
England
8 Arthur II, Duke of
Brittany married 1st Marie de
Limoges, 2nd Yolande de Dreux, Countess de Montfort
9 Guy of Brittany, Count of
Penthievre - had elder brother, thus was not the heir
in his generation; however, his daughter (next entry,
see below) then succeeded in rights of her said uncle

10 Joan of Brittany ,
Duchess of Brittany married
Charles de Blois, Duke of Brittany j. u.
11 Marie de Blois married
Lous I d` Anjou, King of
Naples - Marie de Blois had brothers. This is the
mistaken point in the whole venture as proposed.

---


the following were not heirs of Brittany rights, sorry
to say.

12 Louis II, King of Naples
married Yolande of
Aragon
13 Rene, King of Naples,
Duke of Lorraine and Bar
married Isabel of Lorraine
14 Yolande d`Anjou married
Frederick, Count of
Vaudemont
15 Rene II, Duke of Lorraine
married Philippa of
Guelders
16 Anthony, Duke of Lorraine
married Renee of
Bourbon- Montpensier
(many generations down to
Francis Joseph I,
Emperor of Austria)

---

Instead, the succession passed in the line of brother
of Marie de Blois.
In that line, there were counts of Penthievre, first
in Blois family, then in Bresse family, then in some
branch of Lorraine; then bastard-line Bourbon-Vendome,
then Savoy-Nemours. Then a senior line of kings of
Sardinia. That branch was inherited by duchess of
Modena. And even otherwise it starts to follow the
so-called Jacobite succession.
Current heir is Francis, duke of Bavaria. Who combines
in his person rights to Brittany Arms and Jacobite
throne of England etc.

-----

And all that does not say a word why some current
English families could possibly have Arms of duke
Piers of Brittany




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Re: Edward IV: heraldic heir of Brittany

Legg inn av Gjest » 23 jan 2008 06:04:02

On Jan 23, 3:06 pm, "M.Sjostrom" <q...@yahoo.com> wrote:
And all that does not say a word why some current
English families could possibly have Arms of duke
Piers of Brittany

If the line as per Genealogics is correct, it *would* explain how the
arms of Brittany may be quartered by English families of royal
descent.

Admittedly, the use of those arms by those with such a descent would
be anachronistic - but that is far from unusual in heraldry, as anyone
who is familiar with the Lloyd family's many princely Welsh
quarterings can confirm

It seems there may be some confusion as to whether only the senior
line (or heir general) has a right to a family's arms.

This is incorrect: the laws of heraldry provide for every son to
inherit them, as well as every daughter who is herself an heiress.
Thus, the eldest son of the eldest son of the eldest son bears the
arms, and the youngest son of the youngest daughter of the youngest
son (who died without sons) also bears them (as a quartering).

True, marks of cadency or differencing are often used to distinguish
junior from senior lines, but their use is discretionary and
(importantly in this case) they need not be used at all where the arms
are merely brought in as quarterings with other shields - because the
display of a quartered coat is enough to 'difference' the arms.

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