Fw: Robert Stewart, 1st Duke of Albany, 1340-1420, and dau.

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Leo van de Pas

Fw: Robert Stewart, 1st Duke of Albany, 1340-1420, and dau.

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 22 jan 2008 20:42:44

See at the bottom.

----- Original Message -----
From: <AaronParmenter@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: Robert Stewart, 1st Duke of Albany, 1340-1420, and dau. Lady
Marjorie Stewart, 1380-1432


On Jan 21, 11:28 pm, wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
On Jan 21, 3:12 pm, "AaronParmen...@gmail.com"

AaronParmen...@gmail.com> wrote:
Sir Duncan Campbell, 1st Lord Campbell was born before 1390.2 He
snip
I should say. The record of their dispensation to marry was posted
here back on 24 May 2006 by John Ravilous "...dated St. Peter's Rome,
16 Kal. Feb. [17 Jan] 1422/3]..."
=========== Here clearly is stated that the _dispensation_ is dated and not

the actual marriage date.

See full post following

Will Johnson

Subj: Campbell of Lochawe and Stewart of Ardgowan: a conjecture
Date: 5/24/06 7:10:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: Therav3
To: GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.com

snip

John Ravilious records the integrity of the following:

Robert Stewart, 1st Duke of Albany-Margaret Graham, Countess of
Menteith
Duncan Campbell, 1st Lord of Lochow=Majorie Stewart, dau. of RS, 1st
Duke
Archibald CampbellI, Master of Campbell=Elizabeth Somerville

Of this, Leo van de Pas needs to correct the first generation wife,
Margaret Graham, Countess of Menteith,
married 9 Sep 1361, by Papal dispensation
======= Can you be precise? I have 1361. The date you give (where did it
come from?) and is it the date of the dispensation or is it the actual
marriage date?
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia






Aaron

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AaronParmenter@gmail.com

Re: Fw: Robert Stewart, 1st Duke of Albany, 1340-1420, and d

Legg inn av AaronParmenter@gmail.com » 23 jan 2008 13:54:03

On Jan 22, 2:42 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
=== Can you be precise? I have 1361. The date you give (where did it
come from?) and is it the date of the dispensation or is it the actual
marriage date?

John Ravilious records the integrity of the following pedigree:
Nat Taylor records the integrity of the following pedigree:
British Peerage records the integrity of the following pedigree:
Leo van de Pas does not record the same pedigree, see below:

Leo does not have Margaret Graham, Countess of Menteith
as mother of Majorie Stewart, dau. of Robert Stewart,
1st Steward Duke of Albany!

Leo's website is considered authoritative by some at SGM and
gen-medieval--and this discrepancy between Leo, and the others,
John Ravilious, Nat Taylor and British Peerage pedigrees needs
to be addressed?

_____

Robert Stewart, 1st Duke of Albany-Margaret Graham, Countess of
Menteith
Duncan Campbell, 1st Lord of Lochow=Majorie Stewart, dau. of RS, 1st
Duke
Archibald CampbellI, Master of Campbell=Elizabeth Somerville

Of this, Leo van de Pas needs to correct the first generation wife,
Margaret Graham, Countess of Menteith,
married 9 Sep 1361, by Papal dispensation

Aaron

_____

From: "Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au>
Subject: Fw: Robert Stewart, 1st Duke of Albany, 1340-1420,and dau.
Lady Marjorie Stewart, 1380-1432
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 06:42:44 +1100

======= Can you be precise? I have 1361. The date you give (where did
it
come from?) and is it the date of the dispensation or is it the
actual
marriage date?
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

_____

Nat Taylor proposes the Stewart pedgree segment, as follows:

http://www.nltaylor.net/ancestry/royald ... gruder.htm

1. Robert I Bruce, King of Scotland ($B"w(B 1329) $B!g(B Isabel, dau. of Donald,
Earl of Mar
2. Marjorie ($B"w(B 1316), Princess of Scotland $B!g(B Walter Stewart
(1293-1326), 6th High Steward of Scotland

3. Robert II (1316-1390), 1st Stewart King of Scotland 1371-1390 $B!g(B
Elizabeth ($B"w(B1355), dau. Sir Adam Mure

4. Robert Stewart (~1340-1420) , 1st Duke of Albany, Regent of
Scotland $B!g(B Margaret Graham of Menteith ($B"w(B1380)

5. Marjory Stewart ($B"w(B 1432) $B!g(B Duncan Campbell, 1st Lord Campbell
(~1370-1453)

6. Archibald Campbell, Master of Campbell (~1393-1431/40) $B!g(B Elizabeth
Somerville

7. Colin Campbell ($B"w(B 1493), 1st Earl of Argyll $B!g(B Isabel, daughter of
John Stewart, Lord Lorn

8. Archibald Campbell ($B"w(B at the Battle of Flodden, 1513), 2d Earl of
Argyll $B!g(B Elizabeth, dau. John Stewart, Earl of Lenox

9. Donald Campbell, O. C. (1492-1562), Abbot of Coupar Angus, Lord
Privy Seal for Mary, Queen of Scots

_____

The British Peerage website proposes the Stewart pedgree segment, as
follows:

http://www.thepeerage.com

1. Robert I Bruce, King of Scotland ($B"w(B 1329) $B!g(B Isabel, dau. of Donald,
Earl of Mar

2. Marjorie ($B"w(B 1316), Princess of Scotland $B!g(B Walter Stewart
(1293-1326), 6th High Steward of Scotland

3. Robert II (1316-1390), 1st Stewart King of Scotland 1371-1390 $B!g(B
Elizabeth ($B"w(B1355), dau. Sir Adam Mure

4. Robert Stewart (~1340-1420) , 1st Duke of Albany, Regent of
Scotland $B!g(B Margaret Graham of Menteith ($B"w(B1380)

5. Marjory Stewart ($B"w(B 1432) $B!g(B Duncan Campbell, 1st Lord Campbell
(~1370-1453)

6. Archibald Campbell, Master of Campbell (~1393-1431/40) $B!g(B Elizabeth
Somerville

7. Colin Campbell ($B"w(B 1493), 1st Earl of Argyll $B!g(B Isabel, daughter of
John Stewart, Lord Lorn

8. Archibald Campbell ($B"w(B at the Battle of Flodden, 1513), 2d Earl of
Argyll $B!g(B Elizabeth, dau. John Stewart, Earl of Lenox

9. Donald Campbell, O. C. (1492-1562), Abbot of Coupar Angus, Lord
Privy Seal for Mary, Queen of Scots

_____


[notes]:

http://www.thepeerage.com/p10802.htm#i108012

thePeerage.com
A genealogical survey of the peerage of Britain as well as the royal
families of Europe
Person Page - 10802



Sir Robert Stewart1
M, #108011, b. before 1420, d. after 1431


Last Edited=15 Mar 2006
Consanguinity Index=0.4%
Sir Robert Stewart was born before 1420. He was the son of Robert
Stewart, 1st Duke of Albany and Muriel Keith.1 He died after 1431.1
Sir Robert Stewart succeeded to the title of 4th Earl of Buchan
[S., 1382] on 17 August 1424, although he never seems to have been
recognised as the Earl of Buchan.2
Citations
1. [S11] Alison Weir, Britain's Royal Family: A Complete Genealogy
(London, U.K.: The Bodley Head, 1999), page 220. Hereinafter cited as
Britain's Royal Family.
2. [S6] G.E. Cokayne; with Vicary Gibbs, H.A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H.
White, Duncan Warrand and Lord Howard de Walden, editors, The Complete
Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United
Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant, new ed., 13 volumes in 14
(1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton
Publishing, 2000), volume II, page 377. Hereinafter cited as The
Complete Peerage.
Lady Marjorie Stewart1
F, #108012, b. before 1380, d. before August 1432


Last Edited=20 Aug 2006
Consanguinity Index=0.1%
Lady Marjorie Stewart was born before 1380. She was the daughter
of Robert Stewart, 1st Duke of Albany and Margaret Graham, Countess of
Menteith.1,2 She married Sir Duncan Campbell, 1st Lord Campbell, son
of Sir Colin Campbell of Lochow and Mariot Campbell.2 She died before
August 1432.3,2
Lady Marjorie Stewart was also known as Marceline Stewart.2 Her
married name became Campbell.
Child of Lady Marjorie Stewart and Sir Duncan Campbell, 1st Lord
Campbell
* Archibald Campbell, Master of Campbell+ b. b 1406, d. bt Aug 1431 -
Mar 14401
Citations
1. [S11] Alison Weir, Britain's Royal Family: A Complete Genealogy
(London, U.K.: The Bodley Head, 1999), page 220. Hereinafter cited as
Britain's Royal Family.
2. [S6] G.E. Cokayne; with Vicary Gibbs, H.A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H.
White, Duncan Warrand and Lord Howard de Walden, editors, The Complete
Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United
Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant, new ed., 13 volumes in 14
(1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton
Publishing, 2000), volume II, page 512. Hereinafter cited as The
Complete Peerage.
3. [S11] Alison Weir, Britain's Royal Family, page 220, says c 1406.
Sir Duncan Campbell, 1st Lord Campbell1
M, #108013, b. before 1390, d. 1453


Last Edited=12 Jul 2005
Consanguinity Index=0.8%
Sir Duncan Campbell, 1st Lord Campbell was born before 1390.2 He
was the son of Sir Colin Campbell of Lochow and Mariot Campbell.2 He
married, firstly, Lady Marjorie Stewart, daughter of Robert Stewart,
1st Duke of Albany and Margaret Graham, Countess of Menteith.2 He
married, secondly, Margaret Stewart, daughter of Sir John Stewart,
before 12 March 1439/40.3 He died in 1453.1 He was buried at Kilmun,
Cowal.3
In 1424 he was in the list of hostages for the redemption of King
James I from captivity.2 He held the office of a Justiciar of
Argyllshire.2 He was invested as a Privy Counsellor (P.C.) [Scotland].
4 He was invested as a Knight before March 1440.2 On 4 August 1442 he
founded the Collegiate Church of Kilmun, in Cowal.2 He was created 1st
Lord Campbell [Scotland] in 1445.2 He lived at Lochow, Argyllshire,
Scotland.4
Child of Sir Duncan Campbell, 1st Lord Campbell and Lady Marjorie
Stewart
* Archibald Campbell, Master of Campbell+ b. b 1406, d. bt Aug 1431 -
Mar 14401
Children of Sir Duncan Campbell, 1st Lord Campbell and Margaret
Stewart
* Sir Colin Campbell, 1st of Glenorchy+ b. b 1432, d. c Sep 14754
* Neil Campbell b. b 14424
* Duncan Campbell of Kilmichael+ b. b 14424
* Archibald Campbell b. b 14424
Citations
1. [S11] Alison Weir, Britain's Royal Family: A Complete Genealogy
(London, U.K.: The Bodley Head, 1999), page 220. Hereinafter cited as
Britain's Royal Family.
2. [S6] G.E. Cokayne; with Vicary Gibbs, H.A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H.
White, Duncan Warrand and Lord Howard de Walden, editors, The Complete
Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United
Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant, new ed., 13 volumes in 14
(1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton
Publishing, 2000), volume II, page 512. Hereinafter cited as The
Complete Peerage.
3. [S6] Cokayne, and others, The Complete Peerage, volume II, page
513.
4. [S8] Charles Mosley, editor, Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 106th
edition, 2 volumes (Crans, Switzerland: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical
Books) Ltd, 1999), volume 1, page 104. Hereinafter cited as Burke's
Peerage and Baronetage, 106th edition.
Archibald Campbell, Master of Campbell1
M, #108014, b. before 1406, d. between August 1431 and March 1440


Last Edited=15 Sep 2003
Consanguinity Index=0.1%
Archibald Campbell, Master of Campbell was born before 1406. He
was the son of Sir Duncan Campbell, 1st Lord Campbell and Lady
Marjorie Stewart.1 He married, firstly, Elizabeth Somerville, daughter
of John Somerville, 2nd Lord Somerville and Helen Hepburn.1 He
married, secondly, unknown Stewart, daughter of Murdoch Stewart, 2nd
Duke of Albany, before 1440.2 He died between August 1431 and March
1440.1,3
Archibald Campbell, Master of Campbell was also known as
Gillespic.2 He was styled as Master of Campbell.4 He was also known as
Celestine.1 He lived at Lochow, Argyllshire, Scotland.4
Child of Archibald Campbell, Master of Campbell and Elizabeth
Somerville
* Colin Campbell, 1st Earl of Argyll+ b. bt 1435 - 1440, d. 10 May
14933
Citations
1. [S11] Alison Weir, Britain's Royal Family: A Complete Genealogy
(London, U.K.: The Bodley Head, 1999), page 220. Hereinafter cited as
Britain's Royal Family.
2. [S8] Charles Mosley, editor, Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 106th
edition, 2 volumes (Crans, Switzerland: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical
Books) Ltd, 1999), volume 1, page 104. Hereinafter cited as Burke's
Peerage and Baronetage, 106th edition.
3. [S6] G.E. Cokayne; with Vicary Gibbs, H.A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H.
White, Duncan Warrand and Lord Howard de Walden, editors, The Complete
Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United
Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant, new ed., 13 volumes in 14
(1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton
Publishing, 2000), volume I, page 198. Hereinafter cited as The
Complete Peerage.
4. [S6] Cokayne, and others, The Complete Peerage, volume II, page
513.
Elizabeth Somerville1
F, #108015, b. before 1426


Last Edited=9 Sep 2003
Elizabeth Somerville was born before 1426. She was the daughter
of John Somerville, 2nd Lord Somerville and Helen Hepburn.1,2 She
married Archibald Campbell, Master of Campbell, son of Sir Duncan
Campbell, 1st Lord Campbell and Lady Marjorie Stewart.1
Her married name became Campbell.1
Child of Elizabeth Somerville and Archibald Campbell, Master of
Campbell
* Colin Campbell, 1st Earl of Argyll+ b. bt 1435 - 1440, d. 10 May
14933
Citations
1. [S11] Alison Weir, Britain's Royal Family: A Complete Genealogy
(London, U.K.: The Bodley Head, 1999), page 220. Hereinafter cited as
Britain's Royal Family.
2. [S6] G.E. Cokayne; with Vicary Gibbs, H.A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H.
White, Duncan Warrand and Lord Howard de Walden, editors, The Complete
Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United
Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant, new ed., 13 volumes in 14
(1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton
Publishing, 2000), volume XII/1, page 94. Hereinafter cited as The
Complete Peerage.
3. [S6] Cokayne, and others, The Complete Peerage, volume I, page
198.

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: ... Lady Marjorie Stewart, 1380-1432

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 23 jan 2008 14:04:09

In article
<8dd8f440-d4bf-42bb-a8b5-f7177a786801@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
"AaronParmenter@gmail.com" <AaronParmenter@gmail.com> wrote:

Nat Taylor proposes the Stewart pedgree segment, as follows:

http://www.nltaylor.net/ancestry/royald ... gruder.htm

1. Robert I Bruce, King of Scotland ($B"w(B 1329) $B!g(B Isabel, dau. of Donald,
Earl of Mar

2. Marjorie ($B"w(B 1316), Princess of Scotland $B!g(B Walter Stewart
(1293-1326), 6th High Steward of Scotland

3. Robert II (1316-1390), 1st Stewart King of Scotland 1371-1390 $B!g(B
Elizabeth ($B"w(B1355), dau. Sir Adam Mure

4. Robert Stewart (~1340-1420) , 1st Duke of Albany, Regent of
Scotland $B!g(B Margaret Graham of Menteith ($B"w(B1380)

5. Marjory Stewart ($B"w(B 1432) $B!g(B Duncan Campbell, 1st Lord Campbell
(~1370-1453)

<...>

On this webpage I recorded conventional wisdom (as reflected in the
sources cited there) and admit that I did not examine the pedigree in
detail apart from the sources cited which focus on the alleged identity
and parentage of the immigrant, Alexander Magruder of Maryland. If
there is indeed some question around one of the earlier, conventional
generations then citing a webpage which does not specifically examine
that question is not particularly helpful. I would be interested to
know whether John Ravilious has turned his careful attention to any
apparent controversy over the maternity of Marjory, wife of Duncan
Campbell.

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

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