Breton descent of the English royal family?

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
M.Sjostrom

Breton descent of the English royal family?

Legg inn av M.Sjostrom » 21 jan 2008 02:20:11

"Henry VII was not a descendant of the Breton ducal
family.
But earlier Earls of Richmond were indeed connected
with Brittany.
The arms of Piers de Braine, Earl of Richmond and Duke
of Brittany,
were chequy or and azure, a quarter ermine. "

Bravo.
(I thought those facts are generally known.)

I also thought that any literate person, from earlier
posts of this thread, sees that there was no
conceivable direct inheritance of those Arms from
Breton ducals to English royals.
Henry VII was as much descended from Breton ducals as
were any Plantagenet cognatics - such as Mowbrays,
Holands, Staffords, and so forth. Or, more precisely
said, as little descended... = not descended.

Arms and titles were pretty often taken from
predecessors, not allowing such things to disturb that
a descent was missing.
Mathias Corvinus when king, among other titles of
Hungarian crown, had taken the title of Duke of
Luxembourg.
It just was so. His predecessors on Hungarian throne,
Ladislas the Posthumous as latest, were Dukes of that
because of legitimate succession from first dukes of
L; Mathias did not let it disturb his purported
Luxembourg title that HE personally did *NOT* have any
descent from its legitimate holders. He apparently
thought that the Hungarian electorate was entitled to
elect Dukes of Luxembourg in HRE high nobility.

If and when some previous Earls of Richmond used the
Breton Arms as part of theirs, then Henry VII taking
the same (on basis of receiving Richmond) is not
inconceivable.
Henry VII was not exactly a paragon of not claiming on
spurious grounds.
(The Maryland man and Henree VII would have much in
common, except the Md guy has not won Bosworth or any
other battle.)

However, what intrigues me more, is which specific
arms Fox-Davies meant. Which Breton arms?
Did he mean ermine arms, or some earlier ones?
IIRC it was Constance's son-in-law Piers who took the
ermine Arms into use.
whereby it would be an anachronism to take them on
basis of right from some earlier Breton ruler.

Then, if Phox-Davies meant all and sundry cognatics
from Plantagenet main line (before Lancs and Yorks
era), it would be somewhat difficult task to find any
conceivable right to ermine things, without that right
being anachronistic...




____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62s ... o8Wcj9tAcJ

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»