Medieval location in Kent
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Alwynne Mackie
Medieval location in Kent
In the patent rolls of the reign of Edward lll, I have found a reference
which says that Robert Payne of Conworth was granted such and such by the
court.
The court was sitting at Sandwich at the time, and the time period is 1358
to 1361.
Does anyone know if this means that only residents of the Kent region would
have been heard in the Sandwich sitting, or could someone from another part
of the realm have a matter settled in Sandwich?
My interest is not in Robert Payne, but in the place called Conworth. Does
anyone know where this place might have been, or how I might find out? I
have contacted several archives in Kent, but so far without success.
With thanks,
Alwynne
which says that Robert Payne of Conworth was granted such and such by the
court.
The court was sitting at Sandwich at the time, and the time period is 1358
to 1361.
Does anyone know if this means that only residents of the Kent region would
have been heard in the Sandwich sitting, or could someone from another part
of the realm have a matter settled in Sandwich?
My interest is not in Robert Payne, but in the place called Conworth. Does
anyone know where this place might have been, or how I might find out? I
have contacted several archives in Kent, but so far without success.
With thanks,
Alwynne
-
Renia
Re: Medieval location in Kent
Alwynne Mackie wrote:
There is no such place. There are a couple of people on the 1851 census
said to have been born in Cornworth, a place which itself does not
feature on any census in England between 1841-1901.
Sophia Austin was said to be born in Cornworth, Bedfordshire, as were
Ann and Edith Goodman. They were born in Colmworth, Bedfordshire.
Abraham Turpin was said to be born in Cornworth, Yorkshire in 1796. He
lived in Leeds in 1841 and 1851.
The various censuses show the following numbers of entries for names AND
places called Cornworth:
14 1851 England Census
3 1861 England Census
3 1871 England Census
2 1841 England Census
2 1881 England Census
1 1891 England Census
1 1891 Wales Census
1 1901 Wales Census
Genuki has a number of Gazeteers, particularly this searchable one.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Gazetteers.html
There is nothing in A2A and only 2 entries in the PRO archives.
Cornworth may have been either a single house, long since re-named, or
it may have been a misspelling or mispronounciation.
As to Colmworth, Bedfordshire:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/BDF/Colmworth/
In the patent rolls of the reign of Edward lll, I have found a reference
which says that Robert Payne of Conworth was granted such and such by the
court.
The court was sitting at Sandwich at the time, and the time period is 1358
to 1361.
Does anyone know if this means that only residents of the Kent region would
have been heard in the Sandwich sitting, or could someone from another part
of the realm have a matter settled in Sandwich?
My interest is not in Robert Payne, but in the place called Conworth. Does
anyone know where this place might have been, or how I might find out? I
have contacted several archives in Kent, but so far without success.
With thanks,
Alwynne
There is no such place. There are a couple of people on the 1851 census
said to have been born in Cornworth, a place which itself does not
feature on any census in England between 1841-1901.
Sophia Austin was said to be born in Cornworth, Bedfordshire, as were
Ann and Edith Goodman. They were born in Colmworth, Bedfordshire.
Abraham Turpin was said to be born in Cornworth, Yorkshire in 1796. He
lived in Leeds in 1841 and 1851.
The various censuses show the following numbers of entries for names AND
places called Cornworth:
14 1851 England Census
3 1861 England Census
3 1871 England Census
2 1841 England Census
2 1881 England Census
1 1891 England Census
1 1891 Wales Census
1 1901 Wales Census
Genuki has a number of Gazeteers, particularly this searchable one.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Gazetteers.html
There is nothing in A2A and only 2 entries in the PRO archives.
Cornworth may have been either a single house, long since re-named, or
it may have been a misspelling or mispronounciation.
As to Colmworth, Bedfordshire:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/BDF/Colmworth/
-
Ian Goddard
Re: Medieval location in Kent
Alwynne Mackie wrote:
look at the entry at the top of the page it deals with York.
The Robert Payn entry is appointing him to the "keeping of the king's
manor and stank [wazzat?!] in Wyndesore park" - in other words, Windsor.
So one possibility is that it was somewhere near Windsor. The bad
news about that is that it could have been wiped off the face of the
earth in the course of C18th landscape gardening, excavated for gravel
or buried under Heathrow.
We also have to consider spelling changes. Not far from Windsor is
Colnebrook. I'm not suggesting that it's the same place but there is a
river Colne there and this could be the origin of the first element of
the name. If you follow the course of the Colne you can see plenty of
evidence of flooded gravel workings and the encroachment of the outer
suburbs of London such as Uxbridge. As Renia suggests, it doesn't seem
to exist any more but that doesn't mean that it never did exist.
--
Ian
Hotmail is for spammers. Real mail address is igoddard
at nildram co uk
In the patent rolls of the reign of Edward lll, I have found a reference
which says that Robert Payne of Conworth was granted such and such by the
court.
The court was sitting at Sandwich at the time, and the time period is 1358
to 1361.
Does anyone know if this means that only residents of the Kent region would
have been heard in the Sandwich sitting, or could someone from another part
of the realm have a matter settled in Sandwich?
My interest is not in Robert Payne, but in the place called Conworth. Does
anyone know where this place might have been, or how I might find out? I
have contacted several archives in Kent, but so far without success.
With thanks,
Alwynne
The fact that the court was in Sandwich doesn't mean too much. If you
look at the entry at the top of the page it deals with York.
The Robert Payn entry is appointing him to the "keeping of the king's
manor and stank [wazzat?!] in Wyndesore park" - in other words, Windsor.
So one possibility is that it was somewhere near Windsor. The bad
news about that is that it could have been wiped off the face of the
earth in the course of C18th landscape gardening, excavated for gravel
or buried under Heathrow.
We also have to consider spelling changes. Not far from Windsor is
Colnebrook. I'm not suggesting that it's the same place but there is a
river Colne there and this could be the origin of the first element of
the name. If you follow the course of the Colne you can see plenty of
evidence of flooded gravel workings and the encroachment of the outer
suburbs of London such as Uxbridge. As Renia suggests, it doesn't seem
to exist any more but that doesn't mean that it never did exist.
--
Ian
Hotmail is for spammers. Real mail address is igoddard
at nildram co uk
-
Alwynne Mackie
Re: Medieval location in Kent
I had taken a photo of the Robert Payne entry but it was so out of focus
when I downloaded it at home that I missed the Windsor reference.
But the Windsor reference is an important clue, as there was a place two
miles from Chertsey in 1650 called Conworth Grove (later Conworth Hills),
and a place near Bracknell in 1632 called Cunworth Meadow. Since these two
places are only 12 miles apart, I think they are probably linked to a
Conworth family living in those parts at the time. However I searched all
the registers in the general area and found nothing, but if the name goes
back at least to the mid 1300s, then they were probably well gone by then.
When I discovered the Surrey and Berks places, I contacted the relevant
archives. I got the 1650 documents about Conworth Grove from TNA, and a
snippet from Berks giving me the earliest date they have for Cunworth
Meadow.
I have contacted the Canterbury cathedral archives in case they have
anything, but if anyone can suggest what I might do now, I would be most
grateful. I suppose the obvious thing is to try and chase up Robert Payne to
see if anything comes up.
Many thanks for your help - and I didn't know what a stank was either!
Cheers,
Alwynne
"Ian Goddard" <goddai01@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:_qudnT8kxZxOXPzanZ2dnUVZ8ternZ2d@pipex.net...
when I downloaded it at home that I missed the Windsor reference.
But the Windsor reference is an important clue, as there was a place two
miles from Chertsey in 1650 called Conworth Grove (later Conworth Hills),
and a place near Bracknell in 1632 called Cunworth Meadow. Since these two
places are only 12 miles apart, I think they are probably linked to a
Conworth family living in those parts at the time. However I searched all
the registers in the general area and found nothing, but if the name goes
back at least to the mid 1300s, then they were probably well gone by then.
When I discovered the Surrey and Berks places, I contacted the relevant
archives. I got the 1650 documents about Conworth Grove from TNA, and a
snippet from Berks giving me the earliest date they have for Cunworth
Meadow.
I have contacted the Canterbury cathedral archives in case they have
anything, but if anyone can suggest what I might do now, I would be most
grateful. I suppose the obvious thing is to try and chase up Robert Payne to
see if anything comes up.
Many thanks for your help - and I didn't know what a stank was either!
Cheers,
Alwynne
"Ian Goddard" <goddai01@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:_qudnT8kxZxOXPzanZ2dnUVZ8ternZ2d@pipex.net...
Alwynne Mackie wrote:
In the patent rolls of the reign of Edward lll, I have found a reference
which says that Robert Payne of Conworth was granted such and such by the
court.
The court was sitting at Sandwich at the time, and the time period is
1358 to 1361.
Does anyone know if this means that only residents of the Kent region
would have been heard in the Sandwich sitting, or could someone from
another part of the realm have a matter settled in Sandwich?
My interest is not in Robert Payne, but in the place called Conworth.
Does anyone know where this place might have been, or how I might find
out? I have contacted several archives in Kent, but so far without
success.
With thanks,
Alwynne
The fact that the court was in Sandwich doesn't mean too much. If you
look at the entry at the top of the page it deals with York.
The Robert Payn entry is appointing him to the "keeping of the king's
manor and stank [wazzat?!] in Wyndesore park" - in other words, Windsor.
So one possibility is that it was somewhere near Windsor. The bad news
about that is that it could have been wiped off the face of the earth in
the course of C18th landscape gardening, excavated for gravel or buried
under Heathrow.
We also have to consider spelling changes. Not far from Windsor is
Colnebrook. I'm not suggesting that it's the same place but there is a
river Colne there and this could be the origin of the first element of the
name. If you follow the course of the Colne you can see plenty of
evidence of flooded gravel workings and the encroachment of the outer
suburbs of London such as Uxbridge. As Renia suggests, it doesn't seem to
exist any more but that doesn't mean that it never did exist.
--
Ian
Hotmail is for spammers. Real mail address is igoddard
at nildram co uk
-
Alwynne Mackie
Re: Medieval location in Kent
Many thanks for that, Renia.
I have occasionally found members of the Conworth family with the name spelt
in some of the ways you mention. However I think you are right that no such
place has existed at least for a few centuries. Connaught was occasionally
called Conworth by Englishmen in Ireland, but that's another matter.
Cheers,
Alwynne
"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:fjsbmj$fq$1@mouse.otenet.gr...
I have occasionally found members of the Conworth family with the name spelt
in some of the ways you mention. However I think you are right that no such
place has existed at least for a few centuries. Connaught was occasionally
called Conworth by Englishmen in Ireland, but that's another matter.
Cheers,
Alwynne
"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:fjsbmj$fq$1@mouse.otenet.gr...
Alwynne Mackie wrote:
In the patent rolls of the reign of Edward lll, I have found a reference
which says that Robert Payne of Conworth was granted such and such by the
court.
The court was sitting at Sandwich at the time, and the time period is
1358 to 1361.
Does anyone know if this means that only residents of the Kent region
would have been heard in the Sandwich sitting, or could someone from
another part of the realm have a matter settled in Sandwich?
My interest is not in Robert Payne, but in the place called Conworth.
Does anyone know where this place might have been, or how I might find
out? I have contacted several archives in Kent, but so far without
success.
With thanks,
Alwynne
There is no such place. There are a couple of people on the 1851 census
said to have been born in Cornworth, a place which itself does not feature
on any census in England between 1841-1901.
Sophia Austin was said to be born in Cornworth, Bedfordshire, as were Ann
and Edith Goodman. They were born in Colmworth, Bedfordshire.
Abraham Turpin was said to be born in Cornworth, Yorkshire in 1796. He
lived in Leeds in 1841 and 1851.
The various censuses show the following numbers of entries for names AND
places called Cornworth:
14 1851 England Census
3 1861 England Census
3 1871 England Census
2 1841 England Census
2 1881 England Census
1 1891 England Census
1 1891 Wales Census
1 1901 Wales Census
Genuki has a number of Gazeteers, particularly this searchable one.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Gazetteers.html
There is nothing in A2A and only 2 entries in the PRO archives.
Cornworth may have been either a single house, long since re-named, or it
may have been a misspelling or mispronounciation.
As to Colmworth, Bedfordshire:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/BDF/Colmworth/
-
Ian Goddard
Re: Medieval location in Kent
Alwynne Mackie wrote:
"-worth" is a place name ending so in the first instance the family
would have taken its name from the place although it doesn't stop a
place being named after it later.
(OT-but a good example of this is "Hinchliffe". The first reference to
this is as a place name in the Wakefield manorial records which we can
place quite closely although as the record refers to "Wheelsbrook and
Hinchliffe" to use modern spellings and Wheelsbrook is still a
recognisable place although the original Hinchliffe isn't. This became
a family name and much later a tenant of Cartworth mill was called
Hinchliffe. The hamlet which grew up around the mill became known as
Hinchliffe Mill. You can now find people researching the Hinchliffe
name who are convinced that the family name comes from Hinchliffe Mill
rather than the other way about.)
To get back to Conworth as a surname I'd normally advise you to search
for all Conworth records on IGI and eyeball them to find late
C16th/early C17th records to see what parish they were in then. However
I had a quick look and there don't seem to be any records earlier than
the C18th. What do exist seem to be clustered in the southern part of
the east midlands which takes us back towards Renia's Colmworth in Beds.
Perhaps the name in its present form is of comparatively recent origin.
I also wonder whether the un-named (on the OS map at
http://www.streetmap.co.uk) stream on which Colmworth stands is or was called
the Colne. Colne is a fairly common English river name and -olne to
-olme name changes can happen, e.g. Holme in West Yorks. was originally
Holne pronounced with a short "o" as in holly with which it's cognate.
Incidentally the river Holme which took its name from the township is
said to have been previously called the Colne.
BTW the Edward III and other patent rolls are searchable online at
http://www.uiowa.edu/~c030149a
--
Ian
Hotmail is for spammers. Real mail address is igoddard
at nildram co uk
I had taken a photo of the Robert Payne entry but it was so out of focus
when I downloaded it at home that I missed the Windsor reference.
But the Windsor reference is an important clue, as there was a place two
miles from Chertsey in 1650 called Conworth Grove (later Conworth Hills),
and a place near Bracknell in 1632 called Cunworth Meadow. Since these two
places are only 12 miles apart, I think they are probably linked to a
Conworth family living in those parts at the time. However I searched all
the registers in the general area and found nothing, but if the name goes
back at least to the mid 1300s, then they were probably well gone by then.
When I discovered the Surrey and Berks places, I contacted the relevant
archives. I got the 1650 documents about Conworth Grove from TNA, and a
snippet from Berks giving me the earliest date they have for Cunworth
Meadow.
I have contacted the Canterbury cathedral archives in case they have
anything, but if anyone can suggest what I might do now, I would be most
grateful. I suppose the obvious thing is to try and chase up Robert Payne to
see if anything comes up.
Many thanks for your help - and I didn't know what a stank was either!
Cheers,
Alwynne
"Ian Goddard" <goddai01@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:_qudnT8kxZxOXPzanZ2dnUVZ8ternZ2d@pipex.net...
Alwynne Mackie wrote:
In the patent rolls of the reign of Edward lll, I have found a reference
which says that Robert Payne of Conworth was granted such and such by the
court.
The court was sitting at Sandwich at the time, and the time period is
1358 to 1361.
Does anyone know if this means that only residents of the Kent region
would have been heard in the Sandwich sitting, or could someone from
another part of the realm have a matter settled in Sandwich?
My interest is not in Robert Payne, but in the place called Conworth.
Does anyone know where this place might have been, or how I might find
out? I have contacted several archives in Kent, but so far without
success.
With thanks,
Alwynne
The fact that the court was in Sandwich doesn't mean too much. If you
look at the entry at the top of the page it deals with York.
The Robert Payn entry is appointing him to the "keeping of the king's
manor and stank [wazzat?!] in Wyndesore park" - in other words, Windsor.
So one possibility is that it was somewhere near Windsor. The bad news
about that is that it could have been wiped off the face of the earth in
the course of C18th landscape gardening, excavated for gravel or buried
under Heathrow.
We also have to consider spelling changes. Not far from Windsor is
Colnebrook. I'm not suggesting that it's the same place but there is a
river Colne there and this could be the origin of the first element of the
name. If you follow the course of the Colne you can see plenty of
evidence of flooded gravel workings and the encroachment of the outer
suburbs of London such as Uxbridge. As Renia suggests, it doesn't seem to
exist any more but that doesn't mean that it never did exist.
--
Ian
Hotmail is for spammers. Real mail address is igoddard
at nildram co uk
"-worth" is a place name ending so in the first instance the family
would have taken its name from the place although it doesn't stop a
place being named after it later.
(OT-but a good example of this is "Hinchliffe". The first reference to
this is as a place name in the Wakefield manorial records which we can
place quite closely although as the record refers to "Wheelsbrook and
Hinchliffe" to use modern spellings and Wheelsbrook is still a
recognisable place although the original Hinchliffe isn't. This became
a family name and much later a tenant of Cartworth mill was called
Hinchliffe. The hamlet which grew up around the mill became known as
Hinchliffe Mill. You can now find people researching the Hinchliffe
name who are convinced that the family name comes from Hinchliffe Mill
rather than the other way about.)
To get back to Conworth as a surname I'd normally advise you to search
for all Conworth records on IGI and eyeball them to find late
C16th/early C17th records to see what parish they were in then. However
I had a quick look and there don't seem to be any records earlier than
the C18th. What do exist seem to be clustered in the southern part of
the east midlands which takes us back towards Renia's Colmworth in Beds.
Perhaps the name in its present form is of comparatively recent origin.
I also wonder whether the un-named (on the OS map at
http://www.streetmap.co.uk) stream on which Colmworth stands is or was called
the Colne. Colne is a fairly common English river name and -olne to
-olme name changes can happen, e.g. Holme in West Yorks. was originally
Holne pronounced with a short "o" as in holly with which it's cognate.
Incidentally the river Holme which took its name from the township is
said to have been previously called the Colne.
BTW the Edward III and other patent rolls are searchable online at
http://www.uiowa.edu/~c030149a
--
Ian
Hotmail is for spammers. Real mail address is igoddard
at nildram co uk
-
Alwynne Mackie
Re: Medieval location in Kent
Yes, I have been wondering if the place came first and the family took their
name from it. Apparently -worth means an enclosed place or homestead, so
Conworth - or Cunworth, as it more often seemed to be in the 1600s - could
have been Cons' place (Con being a person), or, more likely, a place
pronounced Con, as you say. Colnbrook nearby could possibly have been a
contender.
In either event, given that -worth is a homestead, it suggests that the
family and the place might well have been more or less contemporaneous.
The earliest Conworths I have found are in the mid 1600s in the general
Peterborough area, although I have found an apprenticeship of a Bartholomew
Connyworth, son of Robert London/Middlesex, merchant tailor, to Wm Beswicke,
5 Dec 1564. This from Origins, but it doesn't give the company. In Yorks in
the 1700s, Conworth and Connyworth were interchangeable.
Thank you for the link to the online patent rolls. I didn't know about that!
And many thanks for your thoughts: I have found them most useful.
Cheers,
Alwynne
"Ian Goddard" <goddai01@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3YednZ9vKcUp2P_anZ2dnUVZ8tKsnZ2d@pipex.net...
name from it. Apparently -worth means an enclosed place or homestead, so
Conworth - or Cunworth, as it more often seemed to be in the 1600s - could
have been Cons' place (Con being a person), or, more likely, a place
pronounced Con, as you say. Colnbrook nearby could possibly have been a
contender.
In either event, given that -worth is a homestead, it suggests that the
family and the place might well have been more or less contemporaneous.
The earliest Conworths I have found are in the mid 1600s in the general
Peterborough area, although I have found an apprenticeship of a Bartholomew
Connyworth, son of Robert London/Middlesex, merchant tailor, to Wm Beswicke,
5 Dec 1564. This from Origins, but it doesn't give the company. In Yorks in
the 1700s, Conworth and Connyworth were interchangeable.
Thank you for the link to the online patent rolls. I didn't know about that!
And many thanks for your thoughts: I have found them most useful.
Cheers,
Alwynne
"Ian Goddard" <goddai01@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3YednZ9vKcUp2P_anZ2dnUVZ8tKsnZ2d@pipex.net...
Alwynne Mackie wrote:
I had taken a photo of the Robert Payne entry but it was so out of focus
when I downloaded it at home that I missed the Windsor reference.
But the Windsor reference is an important clue, as there was a place two
miles from Chertsey in 1650 called Conworth Grove (later Conworth Hills),
and a place near Bracknell in 1632 called Cunworth Meadow. Since these
two places are only 12 miles apart, I think they are probably linked to a
Conworth family living in those parts at the time. However I searched all
the registers in the general area and found nothing, but if the name goes
back at least to the mid 1300s, then they were probably well gone by
then.
When I discovered the Surrey and Berks places, I contacted the relevant
archives. I got the 1650 documents about Conworth Grove from TNA, and a
snippet from Berks giving me the earliest date they have for Cunworth
Meadow.
I have contacted the Canterbury cathedral archives in case they have
anything, but if anyone can suggest what I might do now, I would be most
grateful. I suppose the obvious thing is to try and chase up Robert Payne
to see if anything comes up.
Many thanks for your help - and I didn't know what a stank was either!
Cheers,
Alwynne
"Ian Goddard" <goddai01@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:_qudnT8kxZxOXPzanZ2dnUVZ8ternZ2d@pipex.net...
Alwynne Mackie wrote:
In the patent rolls of the reign of Edward lll, I have found a
reference which says that Robert Payne of Conworth was granted such and
such by the court.
The court was sitting at Sandwich at the time, and the time period is
1358 to 1361.
Does anyone know if this means that only residents of the Kent region
would have been heard in the Sandwich sitting, or could someone from
another part of the realm have a matter settled in Sandwich?
My interest is not in Robert Payne, but in the place called Conworth.
Does anyone know where this place might have been, or how I might find
out? I have contacted several archives in Kent, but so far without
success.
With thanks,
Alwynne
The fact that the court was in Sandwich doesn't mean too much. If you
look at the entry at the top of the page it deals with York.
The Robert Payn entry is appointing him to the "keeping of the king's
manor and stank [wazzat?!] in Wyndesore park" - in other words, Windsor.
So one possibility is that it was somewhere near Windsor. The bad news
about that is that it could have been wiped off the face of the earth in
the course of C18th landscape gardening, excavated for gravel or buried
under Heathrow.
We also have to consider spelling changes. Not far from Windsor is
Colnebrook. I'm not suggesting that it's the same place but there is a
river Colne there and this could be the origin of the first element of
the name. If you follow the course of the Colne you can see plenty of
evidence of flooded gravel workings and the encroachment of the outer
suburbs of London such as Uxbridge. As Renia suggests, it doesn't seem
to exist any more but that doesn't mean that it never did exist.
--
Ian
Hotmail is for spammers. Real mail address is igoddard
at nildram co uk
"-worth" is a place name ending so in the first instance the family would
have taken its name from the place although it doesn't stop a place being
named after it later.
(OT-but a good example of this is "Hinchliffe". The first reference to
this is as a place name in the Wakefield manorial records which we can
place quite closely although as the record refers to "Wheelsbrook and
Hinchliffe" to use modern spellings and Wheelsbrook is still a
recognisable place although the original Hinchliffe isn't. This became a
family name and much later a tenant of Cartworth mill was called
Hinchliffe. The hamlet which grew up around the mill became known as
Hinchliffe Mill. You can now find people researching the Hinchliffe name
who are convinced that the family name comes from Hinchliffe Mill rather
than the other way about.)
To get back to Conworth as a surname I'd normally advise you to search for
all Conworth records on IGI and eyeball them to find late C16th/early
C17th records to see what parish they were in then. However I had a quick
look and there don't seem to be any records earlier than the C18th. What
do exist seem to be clustered in the southern part of the east midlands
which takes us back towards Renia's Colmworth in Beds. Perhaps the name in
its present form is of comparatively recent origin.
I also wonder whether the un-named (on the OS map at http://www.streetmap.co.uk)
stream on which Colmworth stands is or was called the Colne. Colne is a
fairly common English river name and -olne to -olme name changes can
happen, e.g. Holme in West Yorks. was originally Holne pronounced with a
short "o" as in holly with which it's cognate. Incidentally the river
Holme which took its name from the township is said to have been
previously called the Colne.
BTW the Edward III and other patent rolls are searchable online at
http://www.uiowa.edu/~c030149a
--
Ian
Hotmail is for spammers. Real mail address is igoddard
at nildram co uk
-
Ian Goddard
Re: Medieval location in Kent
Alwynne Mackie wrote:
I'd guess the place to have been much earlier. There are several local
-worths in my area. One is "Cumberworth" and, of course, there's
"Walworth" in London. Both of these appear to refer to the britons who,
presumably, must have been living in these places when the saxons named
them. This makes them centuries earlier than the adoption of surnames.
Of course -worth place names don't all have to be handed out at the
same time so it's difficult to be certain.
--
Ian
Hotmail is for spammers. Real mail address is igoddard
at nildram co uk
Yes, I have been wondering if the place came first and the family took their
name from it. Apparently -worth means an enclosed place or homestead, so
Conworth - or Cunworth, as it more often seemed to be in the 1600s - could
have been Cons' place (Con being a person), or, more likely, a place
pronounced Con, as you say. Colnbrook nearby could possibly have been a
contender.
In either event, given that -worth is a homestead, it suggests that the
family and the place might well have been more or less contemporaneous.
I'd guess the place to have been much earlier. There are several local
-worths in my area. One is "Cumberworth" and, of course, there's
"Walworth" in London. Both of these appear to refer to the britons who,
presumably, must have been living in these places when the saxons named
them. This makes them centuries earlier than the adoption of surnames.
Of course -worth place names don't all have to be handed out at the
same time so it's difficult to be certain.
--
Ian
Hotmail is for spammers. Real mail address is igoddard
at nildram co uk
-
Alwynne Mackie
Re: Medieval location in Kent
Perhaps Con was an early Greek invader!
Alwynne
"Ian Goddard" <goddai01@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:CPydnbijpYiRFf_anZ2dnUVZ8h-dnZ2d@pipex.net...
Alwynne
"Ian Goddard" <goddai01@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:CPydnbijpYiRFf_anZ2dnUVZ8h-dnZ2d@pipex.net...
Alwynne Mackie wrote:
Yes, I have been wondering if the place came first and the family took
their name from it. Apparently -worth means an enclosed place or
homestead, so Conworth - or Cunworth, as it more often seemed to be in
the 1600s - could have been Cons' place (Con being a person), or, more
likely, a place pronounced Con, as you say. Colnbrook nearby could
possibly have been a contender.
In either event, given that -worth is a homestead, it suggests that the
family and the place might well have been more or less contemporaneous.
I'd guess the place to have been much earlier. There are several
local -worths in my area. One is "Cumberworth" and, of course, there's
"Walworth" in London. Both of these appear to refer to the britons who,
presumably, must have been living in these places when the saxons named
them. This makes them centuries earlier than the adoption of surnames. Of
course -worth place names don't all have to be handed out at the same time
so it's difficult to be certain.
--
Ian
Hotmail is for spammers. Real mail address is igoddard
at nildram co uk