Hi Everyone:
I am new to this site and really need some help. I am the person who sent my ancestry to Leo van de Pas for his opiunion and he and PJ Evans found a supposed error. I do not have access to some of the books involved for research. I am providing what sources I have found but there has to be some primary source out there.
What I now need to know is the Ancestors of a Richard de Vere born somewhere around 1410 to 1430 who married Isabella de Greene born around 1430.
So far my investigations have found several possibilities from Baldwin de Vere suggested by PJ Evans, found on the tudorplace site with notation that they aren't sure, to a descendant of Robert de Vere, 3rd Earl of Oxford, who married Isabel Bolebec, brother of Audrey de Vere, 2nd Earl of Oxford, Source: Google books - A general and heraldic distionary of the peerages of England, Ireland, and ...by John Burke, page 536, which lists Robert de Vere children Hugh de Vere, 4th Earl of Oxford and another son Sir Henry de Vere of Great Addington whose grandson Richard Vere married Isabelle Greene.
Also, found this same information on Vol. II, File 25: The paternal Ancestry of Homer Beers James with reference to Wurts, pp 127-132, Burke pp 549-550 and Cokayne Vox X pp 193-219.
I also have found this copied from a book "Americans of Royal Descent, Browning, 4th Edition 1897, Vol II page 716" :
(Sheet 1)
Americans of Royal Descent—
Browning
4th ed
1897
Vol II page 716
Otto I, The Great = Adelbreid, Roynvold the Mighty = Hilda
Emperor of Germany | Queen of Italy Jarl & Möre |
| _____________|
| |
Adelheid of Germany=W(AM?),Duke of Rollo, the Dane = Poppa de Bayeaux,
| Aquitaine 1st Duke of Normandy 1st wife
| |
Adela = Hugh Cafet, King of France William, Duke of Normandy
| |
Havida = Rynereus, Count d’Hainault Richard, Duke of Normandy =
| }
Beatrix = Eblo I, Count de Rouci Godfrey, Count d’Eu =
| |
Adela = Hildwin, Count de Rouci Gislebent, Count d’Eu =
| |
Margaret= Hugh, Count de Clermont Richard, Earl of Clare =
|
Adeliza de Clermont = Gilbert, 2nd Earl of Clare
___________________|
|
Adeliza = Alberic, 2d Baron de Vere, Chief Justice of England & Gt.
| High Chamberlain
|
Sir Robert de Vere, second son, = Matilda de Furnell
Lord of Drayton and Adington |
|
Sir Henry de Vere, Lord of Drayton and Adington = Hildeburga
____________________________________|__________
| |
Sir Walter de Drayton = Lucia Bassett Sir Robert de Vere, second son
Lord of Drayton, d. 1211 Lord of Adington Mcqua, Noritis
| |
Sir Henry de Drayton, d.1250 = Ivell? de Bourdon a quo
| |
Sir Baldwin de Drayton, d.1278 = Idonea de Gimee?es Robert de Vere, =
___________________| Lord of Adington
| Magna, 1316
| |
Sir John de Drayton, d.1292 = Philippa d’Arderne Robert de Vere, =
| Lord of Adington
| Magna. 1352
(Note) See sheet 3 | |
___________| |
| |
Catherube Drayton = Sir Henry de Greene, Ch. Jug. of Eng.1353, |
| of Royal descent (page 259) |
| |
Sir Henry de Greene, d Drayton = Matilda de Mauduit |
_______________________| |
| |__
John de Greene d. Drayton, d.1433 = Margaret de Greene, of Bridgnorth |
| |
_______________________| a quo
| _____________________________|
| |
Isabella de Greene, 2nd wife = Sir Richard de Vere,
__________________| Lord of Adington - Magna, 1481
|
Elene de Vere = Thomas Isham, Lord of Pytchley,
| Northamptonshire, b 1456
|
Euseby Isham, of Pytchley, eldest son = Anne, dau. of Giles
| Pulton, of
___________________________| Derborough
|
Henry Isham, Comptroller of the Customs = Jane Beesley, a
| Maid of the
| Wardrobe to
___________________________| Queen Elisabeth
|
Gregory Isham of Barby = Elizabeth, dau. of Robert Catalyne,
__________________| of Raundes
|
Henry Isham = Katherine, widow of Joseph Royal,
at Laguna, in the | her will dated Oct. 10, 1686,
Canaries in 1624, | recorded Dec. 1686
d. 1676, at Bermuda |
Hundred, Na. |
_______________|
|
Mary Isham = William Randolph, of Turkey Island, Va.,
| member of the Council of Virginia
|
Elizabeth Randolph = Richard Bland of Jordans, etc.
==================================================
Transcription copyright © RoaneTNHistory.org 2005.
All rights reserved.
Archivist:
Transcription and scan by G. Anne Sloan
I realize this may or may not be true either. I am descended through Captain Henry Isham.
He had Mary Isham, Anne Isham and Henry Isham. Mary Isham is the ancestor of President Jefferson,
Ann Isham married Francis Eppes, one of whose children, Ann Eppes married Benjamin Harris.
They are my ancestors. The Harris ancestry does extend back into England but there is a
lot of controversy about who and where.
Thanks so much for your consideration and assistance.
Respectfully,
Pauline Harris Schwarz
pschwarz3@earthlink.net
de Vere Ancestry
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
wjhonson
Re: de Vere Ancestry
Americans of Royal Descent isn't a reliable source.
For example, in the above
Living Descendents of Blood Royal, Vol 2, "Landrum", pg 503-508
Count d'Angerville; World Nobility, London. 1962
contradicts the descent to Capt Henry Isham of Bermuda Hundred
by saying that he was instead the second son of William Isham, bapt
Braunston, 20 Mar 1588, m Mary Brett, dau of William Brett, of
Toddington Bedford
and cites as authorities London Vis 1568; NEHGS Jul 1890, and Wm and
Mary Quart, Vol 1 pp 108-9
They continue by stating that this William Isham was the son of Sir
Euseby Isham, Knt of Pitchley and Braunston d 1626 (son of Gregory
Isham), by his wife Anne Borlase
They then continue to trace upward through the Borlase family.
For example, in the above
Living Descendents of Blood Royal, Vol 2, "Landrum", pg 503-508
Count d'Angerville; World Nobility, London. 1962
contradicts the descent to Capt Henry Isham of Bermuda Hundred
by saying that he was instead the second son of William Isham, bapt
Braunston, 20 Mar 1588, m Mary Brett, dau of William Brett, of
Toddington Bedford
and cites as authorities London Vis 1568; NEHGS Jul 1890, and Wm and
Mary Quart, Vol 1 pp 108-9
They continue by stating that this William Isham was the son of Sir
Euseby Isham, Knt of Pitchley and Braunston d 1626 (son of Gregory
Isham), by his wife Anne Borlase
They then continue to trace upward through the Borlase family.
-
wjhonson
Re: de Vere Ancestry
Will thank you for that excellent post much appreciated.
As you know Euseby Isham is called both of Braunston and of Pitchley.
I'm suspecting that when he was "of Braunston" this was from his
father, and he became (possibly) of Pitchley jure uxoris on his
marriage. I wonder if you can find any indication of who was "of
Pitchley" before 1588 ? If it was the Borlase family that would
certainly help to cement this connection and destroy the Pulton
connection
Will Johnson
As you know Euseby Isham is called both of Braunston and of Pitchley.
I'm suspecting that when he was "of Braunston" this was from his
father, and he became (possibly) of Pitchley jure uxoris on his
marriage. I wonder if you can find any indication of who was "of
Pitchley" before 1588 ? If it was the Borlase family that would
certainly help to cement this connection and destroy the Pulton
connection
Will Johnson
-
wjhonson
Re: de Vere Ancestry
Will thank you for that excellent post.
Apparently somebody has been very naughty.
From my jump page, here
http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecilweb ... hp/Sources
we can see that I've now linked the Vis London 1568 referenced as one
of its authorities by "Living Descendents..."
The actual Isham page is here on page 17
http://books.google.com/books?id=NZlVP2hKuwQC&pg=PA17
and we can see Euseby who married Anne Pulton which has to be
disappointing as you don't get the opportunity to gloat over another
pedigree hopelessly crushed and destroyed.
BUT wait.... this vis is from 1568, this Euseby, shown there as
*already* a grandfather, cannot be that same Euseby purporting to
occupy a certain close space in the ancestry of Sir Henry Isham. He
is far too old!
All is not lost dear reader, for at the bottom of this pedigree what
do we see but quite another "Ewseby Isham only sonne and heyre". This
is *that* Euseby who would later Anne Borlase and be called firstly
"of Braunston" and later "of Pitchley" (starting from c 1588)
That is, the descent to Sir Henry Isham of Bermuda Hundred should go
Euseby Isham + Anne Pulton
Gregory Isham + some wench
Euseby Isham + Anne Borlase
William Isham + Mary Brett
Capt Henry Isham of Bermuda Hundred
Will Johnson
Apparently somebody has been very naughty.
From my jump page, here
http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecilweb ... hp/Sources
we can see that I've now linked the Vis London 1568 referenced as one
of its authorities by "Living Descendents..."
The actual Isham page is here on page 17
http://books.google.com/books?id=NZlVP2hKuwQC&pg=PA17
and we can see Euseby who married Anne Pulton which has to be
disappointing as you don't get the opportunity to gloat over another
pedigree hopelessly crushed and destroyed.
BUT wait.... this vis is from 1568, this Euseby, shown there as
*already* a grandfather, cannot be that same Euseby purporting to
occupy a certain close space in the ancestry of Sir Henry Isham. He
is far too old!
All is not lost dear reader, for at the bottom of this pedigree what
do we see but quite another "Ewseby Isham only sonne and heyre". This
is *that* Euseby who would later Anne Borlase and be called firstly
"of Braunston" and later "of Pitchley" (starting from c 1588)
That is, the descent to Sir Henry Isham of Bermuda Hundred should go
Euseby Isham + Anne Pulton
Gregory Isham + some wench
Euseby Isham + Anne Borlase
William Isham + Mary Brett
Capt Henry Isham of Bermuda Hundred
Will Johnson
-
alden@mindspring.com
Re: de Vere Ancestry
On Dec 10, 6:56 pm, wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
Doug Smith
Will thank you for that excellent post.
Apparently somebody has been very naughty.
From my jump page, herehttp://www.countyhistorian.com/ceci ... hp/Sources
we can see that I've now linked the Vis London 1568 referenced as one
of its authorities by "Living Descendents..."
The actual Isham page is here on page 17http://books.google.com/books?id=NZlVP2hKuwQC&pg=PA17
and we can see Euseby who married Anne Pulton which has to be
disappointing as you don't get the opportunity to gloat over another
pedigree hopelessly crushed and destroyed.
BUT wait.... this vis is from 1568, this Euseby, shown there as
*already* a grandfather, cannot be that same Euseby purporting to
occupy a certain close space in the ancestry of Sir Henry Isham. He
is far too old!
All is not lost dear reader, for at the bottom of this pedigree what
do we see but quite another "Ewseby Isham only sonne and heyre". This
is *that* Euseby who would later Anne Borlase and be called firstly
"of Braunston" and later "of Pitchley" (starting from c 1588)
That is, the descent to Sir Henry Isham of Bermuda Hundred should go
Euseby Isham + Anne Pulton
Gregory Isham + some wench (perhaps Elizabeth Dale, see Robert Edmond Chester Waters, Genealogical Memoirs of the Extinct Family of Chester of Chicheley, London, (1878), pps 48-51).
Doug Smith
Euseby Isham + Anne Borlase
William Isham + Mary Brett
Capt Henry Isham of Bermuda Hundred
Will Johnson
-
alden@mindspring.com
Re: de Vere Ancestry
On Dec 11, 10:55 am, "al...@mindspring.com" <al...@mindspring.com>
wrote:
Sorry just fumbling ingers I fear.
Doug
wrote:
On Dec 10, 6:56 pm, wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
Will thank you for that excellent post.
Apparently somebody has been very naughty.
From my jump page, herehttp://www.countyhistorian.com/ceci ... hp/Sources
we can see that I've now linked the Vis London 1568 referenced as one
of its authorities by "Living Descendents..."
The actual Isham page is here on page 17http://books.google.com/books?id=NZlVP2hKuwQC&pg=PA17
and we can see Euseby who married Anne Pulton which has to be
disappointing as you don't get the opportunity to gloat over another
pedigree hopelessly crushed and destroyed.
BUT wait.... this vis is from 1568, this Euseby, shown there as
*already* a grandfather, cannot be that same Euseby purporting to
occupy a certain close space in the ancestry of Sir Henry Isham. He
is far too old!
All is not lost dear reader, for at the bottom of this pedigree what
do we see but quite another "Ewseby Isham only sonne and heyre". This
is *that* Euseby who would later Anne Borlase and be called firstly
"of Braunston" and later "of Pitchley" (starting from c 1588)
That is, the descent to Sir Henry Isham of Bermuda Hundred should go
Euseby Isham + Anne Pulton
Gregory Isham + some wench (perhaps Elizabeth Dale, see Robert Edmond Chester Waters, Genealogical Memoirs of the Extinct Family of Chester of Chicheley, London, (1878), pps 48-51).
Doug Smith
Sorry just fumbling ingers I fear.
Doug
Euseby Isham + Anne Borlase
William Isham + Mary Brett
Capt Henry Isham of Bermuda Hundred
Will Johnson- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
-
alden@mindspring.com
Re: de Vere Ancestry
On Dec 11, 1:52 pm, "al...@mindspring.com" <al...@mindspring.com>
wrote:
wrote:
On Dec 11, 10:55 am, "al...@mindspring.com" <al...@mindspring.com
wrote:
On Dec 10, 6:56 pm, wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
Will thank you for that excellent post.
Apparently somebody has been very naughty.
From my jump page, herehttp://www.countyhistorian.com/ceci ... hp/Sources
we can see that I've now linked the Vis London 1568 referenced as one
of its authorities by "Living Descendents..."
The actual Isham page is here on page 17http://books.google.com/books?id=NZlVP2hKuwQC&pg=PA17
and we can see Euseby who married Anne Pulton which has to be
disappointing as you don't get the opportunity to gloat over another
pedigree hopelessly crushed and destroyed.
BUT wait.... this vis is from 1568, this Euseby, shown there as
*already* a grandfather, cannot be that same Euseby purporting to
occupy a certain close space in the ancestry of Sir Henry Isham. He
is far too old!
All is not lost dear reader, for at the bottom of this pedigree what
do we see but quite another "Ewseby Isham only sonne and heyre". This
is *that* Euseby who would later Anne Borlase and be called firstly
"of Braunston" and later "of Pitchley" (starting from c 1588)
That is, the descent to Sir Henry Isham of Bermuda Hundred should go
Euseby Isham + Anne Pulton
Gregory Isham + some wench = (perhaps Elizabeth Dale, see Robert Edmond Chester Waters, Genealogical Memoirs of the Extinct Family of Chester of Chicheley, London, (1878), pps 48-51).
Doug Smith
Robert Edmond Chester Waters, Genealogical Memoirs of the Extinct Family of Chester of Chicheley, London, (1878), pps 48-51.
Doug
Euseby Isham + Anne Borlase
William Isham + Mary Brett
Capt Henry Isham of Bermuda Hundred
Will Johnson- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -