Origins of the Despensers

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Clive West

Origins of the Despensers

Legg inn av Clive West » 08 des 2007 23:27:00

Dear John,

The evidence given by Douglas Richardson to show that it was Hugh le Despenser the Elder who granted Arnesby (Ernesby) to Alan de Elsefeld is confirmed by the i.p.m of John le Despenser (1235-1274).

Arnesby in Leicestershire had been held earlier by Hugh le Despenser the Oldest (d.1238) and later passed to his nephew John (son of Geoffrey le Despenser of Martley). John le Despenser's i.p.m of 1275 states that he held the manor of Arnesby and that "Hugh the son of Hugh is the next heir of the said John, aged 14 on the first day of March last past". Hugh the Elder's birth date is usually given as 1262. Hugh the Younger of course wasn't born yet.

You might be interested in a charter reprinted in CTG p.351 (can be viewed via Google books) to which a certain Alan de Esefeld and Sir Adam de Dutton are witnesses. Although it is undated, it must date to around the middle of the 13th century because in the Patent Rolls for 1245 there is a document which mentions Alan de Esefeld and two other of the witnesses to the CTG document (Sir Philip Basset and Sir Philip de Mundeville).

Regards,

Clive West


On Nov 3, 7:05 pm, "John P. Ravilious" < therav3@aol.com> wrote:
Saturday, 3 November, 2007

Hello All,

I recently noted the record of a grant (undated) which
refers to a relative of one Hugh le Despenser, the extract
of which states:

' Leic. A. 6519. Grant by Hugh le Despenser, to his
kinsman, Sir Alan de Elsefeld, for his life, of the manor
of Ernesby, with the cattle, &c. thereon.
Witnesses: - Sirs Robert le Waleys, William le Waleys,
John de Folevill, and John le Faucone, knights, and
others (named). Seal of arms.' [1]

The foregoing certainly provides no detail as to how Sir
Alan de Elsefeld was related to Hugh le Despenser. However,
despite the lack of a date, it does appear most likely that
either Hugh le Despenser, Earl of Winchester (exe. 1326) or
his son Hugh (exe. 1326) was the grantor in this deed.
There is a record in the Patent Rolls dated at York,
28 June 1323 of a commission of oyer and terminer on a
complaint against ' Alan de Ellesfeld and Richard his
brother ' [among others] concerning an alleged assault in
Aylesbury, co. Buckingham [2]. An 'Alayn de Ellesfeld' is
numbered by Moor among the 'Knights of Edward I', and may
well have been his father or an otherwise near relation
if not the same individual [3].

In addition to the statement in the above grant that
Sir Alan de Ellesfeld (or Elsefeld) was Hugh le Despenser's
kinsman, there is intriguing heraldic evidence that appears
to support this. The Despenser arms (undifferenced) are
known to have been 'Quarterly argent and gules, 2nd and 3rd
fretty or, over all a bend sable.' The arms given by Moor
for Alayn de Ellesfeld are virtually identical, the one
difference being a charge on the bend(let) sable:

' Quarterly arg. and gu. In 2nd and 3rd qrs a fret
or. Over all a bendlet sa. charged with 3 mullets
of 6 points or (Segar). ' [4]

Papworth gives these same arms for the family 'Elford',
which may well descend from the above Sir Alan de Ellesfeld
[5]. The similarity of the arms of Ellesfeld and Despenser
to those of Dutton of Dutton may be noted on the same page
in Papworth: the Dutton arms are the same, less the bend
sable. Joseph Foster may have made too close a connection,
or may have known some other detail which I have not seen,
as his description of the arms of Alan de Ellesfeld states,

' Ellesfeld, Alayn de - (E. I. Roll) bore,
DUTTON, over all on a bendlet sable three
mullets (6) of the third (or). (F.) Segar Roll.' [6]

There is a long-standing tradition that the Duttons
descended from a marriage of an ancestor to a Muriel
'Despencer', daughter of Thomas, for which I have seen no
support to date. There may in fact be some relationship
between the Despenser and Ellesfeld families to the Duttons
that would explain the foregoing evidence, but whether from
a Dutton descent from Thomas le Despenser, or a marriage of
Thomas or his son Hugh (among two possibilities) I have
been unable to determine as yet.

Should anyone of the list have further evidence or
suggestions, that would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

John *

NOTES

[1] Descriptive Catalogue of Ancient Deeds IV:48,
no. 6519.

[2] Calendar of Patent Rolls 16 Edw II, p. 318, mem. 2d.

[3] Moor, Knights of Edward I, I:303.

[4] Moor, ibid.

[5] Papworth, An Alphabetical Dictionary of Coats of Arms
(1874), II:1041.

[6] Joseph Foster, Some Feudal Coats of Arms from Heraldic
Rolls 1298-1418, p. 82.

* John P. Ravilious

John P. Ravilious

Re: Origins of the Despensers

Legg inn av John P. Ravilious » 10 des 2007 00:45:05

Dear Clive,

Thanks for advising of the details from the IPM of John le
Despenser, and also re: the other reference to Alan de Elsefeld.

I have a feeling that the Despenser-de Elsefeld relationship may
be found via the Basset family, but this is a long way from
substantiation. I'll continue following those leads that turn up and
see where they go. Perhaps the Dutton relationship (if valid) will be
proven in the process......

Cheers,

John



On Dec 8, 5:27 pm, "Clive West" <clivew...@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
Dear John,

The evidence given by Douglas Richardson to show that it was Hugh le Despenser the Elder who granted Arnesby (Ernesby) to Alan de Elsefeld is confirmed by the i.p.m of John le Despenser (1235-1274).

Arnesby in Leicestershire had been held earlier by Hugh le Despenser the Oldest (d.1238) and later passed to his nephew John (son of Geoffrey le Despenser of Martley). John le Despenser's i.p.m of 1275 states that he held the manor of Arnesby and that "Hugh the son of Hugh is the next heir of the said John, aged 14 on the first day of March last past". Hugh the Elder's birth date is usually given as 1262. Hugh the Younger of course wasn't born yet.

You might be interested in a charter reprinted in CTG p.351 (can be viewed via Google books) to which a certain Alan de Esefeld and Sir Adam de Dutton are witnesses. Although it is undated, it must date to around the middle of the 13th century because in the Patent Rolls for 1245 there is a document which mentions Alan de Esefeld and two other of the witnesses to the CTG document (Sir Philip Basset and Sir Philip de Mundeville).

Regards,

Clive West

On Nov 3, 7:05 pm, "John P. Ravilious" < ther...@aol.com> wrote:

Saturday, 3 November, 2007

Hello All,

I recently noted the record of a grant (undated) which
refers to a relative of one Hugh le Despenser, the extract
of which states:

' Leic. A. 6519. Grant by Hugh le Despenser, to his
kinsman, Sir Alan de Elsefeld, for his life, of the manor
of Ernesby, with the cattle, &c. thereon.
Witnesses: - Sirs Robert le Waleys, William le Waleys,
John de Folevill, and John le Faucone, knights, and
others (named). Seal of arms.' [1]

The foregoing certainly provides no detail as to how Sir
Alan de Elsefeld was related to Hugh le Despenser. However,
despite the lack of a date, it does appear most likely that
either Hugh le Despenser, Earl of Winchester (exe. 1326) or
his son Hugh (exe. 1326) was the grantor in this deed.
There is a record in the Patent Rolls dated at York,
28 June 1323 of a commission of oyer and terminer on a
complaint against ' Alan de Ellesfeld and Richard his
brother ' [among others] concerning an alleged assault in
Aylesbury, co. Buckingham [2]. An 'Alayn de Ellesfeld' is
numbered by Moor among the 'Knights of Edward I', and may
well have been his father or an otherwise near relation
if not the same individual [3].

In addition to the statement in the above grant that
Sir Alan de Ellesfeld (or Elsefeld) was Hugh le Despenser's
kinsman, there is intriguing heraldic evidence that appears
to support this. The Despenser arms (undifferenced) are
known to have been 'Quarterly argent and gules, 2nd and 3rd
fretty or, over all a bend sable.' The arms given by Moor
for Alayn de Ellesfeld are virtually identical, the one
difference being a charge on the bend(let) sable:

' Quarterly arg. and gu. In 2nd and 3rd qrs a fret
or. Over all a bendlet sa. charged with 3 mullets
of 6 points or (Segar). ' [4]

Papworth gives these same arms for the family 'Elford',
which may well descend from the above Sir Alan de Ellesfeld
[5]. The similarity of the arms of Ellesfeld and Despenser
to those of Dutton of Dutton may be noted on the same page
in Papworth: the Dutton arms are the same, less the bend
sable. Joseph Foster may have made too close a connection,
or may have known some other detail which I have not seen,
as his description of the arms of Alan de Ellesfeld states,

' Ellesfeld, Alayn de - (E. I. Roll) bore,
DUTTON, over all on a bendlet sable three
mullets (6) of the third (or). (F.) Segar Roll.' [6]

There is a long-standing tradition that the Duttons
descended from a marriage of an ancestor to a Muriel
'Despencer', daughter of Thomas, for which I have seen no
support to date. There may in fact be some relationship
between the Despenser and Ellesfeld families to the Duttons
that would explain the foregoing evidence, but whether from
a Dutton descent from Thomas le Despenser, or a marriage of
Thomas or his son Hugh (among two possibilities) I have
been unable to determine as yet.

Should anyone of the list have further evidence or
suggestions, that would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

John *

NOTES

[1] Descriptive Catalogue of Ancient Deeds IV:48,
no. 6519.

[2] Calendar of Patent Rolls 16 Edw II, p. 318, mem. 2d.

[3] Moor, Knights of Edward I, I:303.

[4] Moor, ibid.

[5] Papworth, An Alphabetical Dictionary of Coats of Arms
(1874), II:1041.

[6] Joseph Foster, Some Feudal Coats of Arms from Heraldic
Rolls 1298-1418, p. 82.

* John P. Ravilious

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