Some time ago Inger Johanson drew my attention to some documents from
Norway with references to the Sinclairs, earls of Orkney. It has taken
me a while to get through them and I'm still not sure I understand
everything. That's why I'd like some help.
First question:
One of these documents is from an original parchment in Chapter House
(Scotch Doc.), Postfolio 3, no. 56. Diplomatarium Norwegicum 19:309,
written 5 February 1284 at Scone. It starts with a list of names:
"Omnibus Christi fidelibus, ad quos presens scriptum pervenerit,
Alexander Cumyn´ comes de Buchan´ constabularius et justiciarius
Scotie, Patricius comes de Dunbar´, Mallisius comes de Stratherin,
Malcolmus comes de Leuenax, Robertus de Brus´ comes de Carric,
Douenaldus comes de Mar´, Gilbertus comes de Anegus, Walterus comes de
Menethet´, Willielmus comes de Ros´, Willielmus comes Suthirland,
Magnus comes de . . . . . . . . aclin, Duncanus comes de . . . . . . .
et Johannes comes Athol´ tunc . . . . . . lleti, Robertus de Brus
Pater, Jacobus senescallus Scotie, Johannes de Balliolo, Johannes
Cumyn, Willielmus de Soulys tunc justiciarius Laodon´, Ingeramus de
Gynis, Willielmus de Moravia filius, Walterus de Moravia milites;
Alexander de [Bal-]liolo, Reginaldus le Chen Pater, Willielmus de
Sancto Claro, Ricardus Syward, Willielmus de Brechyn, Nicholaus de
Haya, Henricus de Graham, Ingeramus de Balliolo, Alanus filius
comitis, Reginaldus le Chen filius, J[ohannes] de Lindesey, Patricius
de . . . "
Inger says that two members of the Sinclair family are mentioned,
Willielmus comes de Ros, which she reads as Roslyn, and his relative
Willielmus de Sancto Claro. But surely the former is the Earl of Ross,
Uilleam mac in tSagairt, who was Mormaer Uilleam II of Ross
(1274-1323)? Was he related to Sinclair at all?
Second question:
Another document is an oath taken in 1379 by Henry Sinclair, Earl of
Orkney and Lord of Roslyn, to defend Orkney on behalf of the Norwegian
king. My question concerns the role of the Bishop of Orkney. Inger
tells me that the Earl swore not to take up friendship with the bishop
of Orkney, since he had made a commitment to the King, and promise to
pay the bishop 1000 Gylden English coin. I find it hard to fit this
with the medieval Latin text, which I don't completely understand:
Jtem promittimus quod nullam debeamus facere colligacionem cum
episcopo Orchadensi nec vllam amiciciam cum ipso statu(e)re uel jnire
nisi de ipsius domini nostri regis beneplacito et consensu. sed ipsi
auxilio esse debemus contra ipsum episcopum donec sibi fecerit quod
juris est vel que merito facere tenebitur super hiis in quibus ipse
dominus noster rex velit uel possit ipsum episcopum racionabiliter
accusare. Preterea cum deus voluerit de medio nos vocare. extunc
comitatus ille et dominium illud cum terris et insulis ac cum omni
jure ad sepedictum dominum nostrum regem heredes suos et successores
libere redire debeat, et si liberos vnum uel plures postnos habuerimus
de nostro proprio corpore procreatos masculos tamen uel masculum.
extunc ille de ipsis qui supradictum comitatum et dominium
affectauerit debet ipsius domini nostri regis heredum et successorum
suorum super hoc requirere graciam beneplacitum et consensum. Jnsuper
promittimus bona fide quod supra dicto domino nostro regi uel ipsius
officiali apud Tunsbergas persoluere debebimus in proximo festo beati
Martini episcopi et confessoris mille aureos qui nobiles nuncupantur
monete anglicane. jn quibus sibi ex justo debito recognoscimus nos
teneri.
The Norwegian summary reads:
"Henrik Sinclair (de sancto Claro), Jarl af Orknö og Herre af Roslyn,
kund-
gjör, at han har svoret Kong Haakon Troskab som Jarl, og forpligter
sig
til at tjene ham med 100 fuldrustede Mænd, at forsvare Orknö og Hjalt-
land mod fiendtligt Angreb, ingen faste Borge der anlægge uden Kon-
gens Samtykke, ingen Del af Öerne afstaa eller pantsætte, ingen Feide
begynde, ei slutte Venskab med Biskoppen af Orknö, för denne har for-
ligt sig med Kongen, samt lover at betale denne 1000 Gylden engelsk
Mynt og at hans Slægtning Malis Sperra skal opgive sine Fordringer
paa ]arledömmet, med flere Bestemmelser om Gisler og Borgen for Löf-
ternes Opfyldelse. (jfr. No. 460. 465.)"
What does that say exactly about the nature of relations between the
bishop and the king, and who gets the thousand gold coins?
James Hogg
Sinclairs: Help with medieval Latin and Norwegian
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Erik Hammerstad
Re: Sinclairs: Help with medieval Latin and Norwegian
James Hogg wrote:
the time, and that the King gets the gold coins.
The Norwegian summary reads:
"Henrik Sinclair (de sancto Claro), Jarl af Orknö og Herre af Roslyn,
kund-
gjör, at han har svoret Kong Haakon Troskab som Jarl, og forpligter
sig
til at tjene ham med 100 fuldrustede Mænd, at forsvare Orknö og Hjalt-
land mod fiendtligt Angreb, ingen faste Borge der anlægge uden Kon-
gens Samtykke, ingen Del af Öerne afstaa eller pantsætte, ingen Feide
begynde, ei slutte Venskab med Biskoppen af Orknö, för denne har for-
ligt sig med Kongen, samt lover at betale denne 1000 Gylden engelsk
Mynt og at hans Slægtning Malis Sperra skal opgive sine Fordringer
paa ]arledömmet, med flere Bestemmelser om Gisler og Borgen for Löf-
ternes Opfyldelse. (jfr. No. 460. 465.)"
What does that say exactly about the nature of relations between the
bishop and the king, and who gets the thousand gold coins?
I read the Norwegian text as the King and Bishop being enemies at
the time, and that the King gets the gold coins.
-
John P. Ravilious
Re: Sinclairs: Help with medieval Latin and Norwegian
Dear James, Erik, et al.,
Re: your first question, William de St. Clair ("Willielmus de
Sancto Claro" in the 1284 document you present) was certainly not the
son, and likely not a near relation, of William, Earl of Ross.
Roslyn (also Roslin or Rosslyn) is located in Lasswade parish,
Midlothian, quite some distance from Ross. There is no evidence of
any link between the Sinclairs and the earls of Ross until some 3
generations later, and that only because the Orkney heiress (dau. of
Malise of Strathearn) was also granddaughter of Hugh, Earl of Ross
(son of Earl William, d. 1322/3). Sir William de Sinclair was
evidently the son of an earlier Sir William, sheriff of Edinburgh in
1266. The younger Sir William ['Willielmo de Sancto Claro '] had a
charter of the lands and barony of ' Roskelyn ' [Roslin] from King
Alexander III, witnessed by Robert Wishart, bishop of Glasgow, William
Fraser the chancellor, Gilbert de Umfraville, earl of Angus, William
Comyn of Kilbride, Patrick de Graham and others [ "Testibus, Roberto
Episcopo Glasguensi, Willielmo Fraser Cancellario nostro, Gilberto
Comite de Anegus, Willielmo Comyn de Kilbryde, Symone Fraser, Bernardo
de Monte Alto, Willielmo Byseth, Patricio de Graham et multis
aliis" ], which charter was dated at Traquair on 14 Sept 1280 [SP VI;
text given by Hay, pp. 41-42].
Additional reference re: Sir William de St. Clair include the
articles in the Dictionary of National Biography [DNB LII:307-308],
and in Scots Peerage [SP VI:564-5], but be wary of claims of his
descent in Rev. Hay's work. There were clearly St. Clairs in Scotland
ca. 1250 and before, and no one has resolved the earlier relationships
to the best of my knowledge.
As to the 2nd question concerning Sir Henry Sinclair's Norwegian
relationships and his earldom (Jarldom), see also Scots Peerage [SP VI:
568].
Cheers,
John
On Dec 1, 7:45�am, James Hogg <Jas.Hogg...@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote:
Re: your first question, William de St. Clair ("Willielmus de
Sancto Claro" in the 1284 document you present) was certainly not the
son, and likely not a near relation, of William, Earl of Ross.
Roslyn (also Roslin or Rosslyn) is located in Lasswade parish,
Midlothian, quite some distance from Ross. There is no evidence of
any link between the Sinclairs and the earls of Ross until some 3
generations later, and that only because the Orkney heiress (dau. of
Malise of Strathearn) was also granddaughter of Hugh, Earl of Ross
(son of Earl William, d. 1322/3). Sir William de Sinclair was
evidently the son of an earlier Sir William, sheriff of Edinburgh in
1266. The younger Sir William ['Willielmo de Sancto Claro '] had a
charter of the lands and barony of ' Roskelyn ' [Roslin] from King
Alexander III, witnessed by Robert Wishart, bishop of Glasgow, William
Fraser the chancellor, Gilbert de Umfraville, earl of Angus, William
Comyn of Kilbride, Patrick de Graham and others [ "Testibus, Roberto
Episcopo Glasguensi, Willielmo Fraser Cancellario nostro, Gilberto
Comite de Anegus, Willielmo Comyn de Kilbryde, Symone Fraser, Bernardo
de Monte Alto, Willielmo Byseth, Patricio de Graham et multis
aliis" ], which charter was dated at Traquair on 14 Sept 1280 [SP VI;
text given by Hay, pp. 41-42].
Additional reference re: Sir William de St. Clair include the
articles in the Dictionary of National Biography [DNB LII:307-308],
and in Scots Peerage [SP VI:564-5], but be wary of claims of his
descent in Rev. Hay's work. There were clearly St. Clairs in Scotland
ca. 1250 and before, and no one has resolved the earlier relationships
to the best of my knowledge.
As to the 2nd question concerning Sir Henry Sinclair's Norwegian
relationships and his earldom (Jarldom), see also Scots Peerage [SP VI:
568].
Cheers,
John
On Dec 1, 7:45�am, James Hogg <Jas.Hogg...@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote:
Some time ago Inger Johanson drew my attention to some documents from
Norway with references to the Sinclairs, earls of Orkney. It has taken
me a while to get through them and I'm still not sure I understand
everything. That's why I'd like some help.
First question:
One of these documents is from an original parchment in Chapter House
(Scotch Doc.), Postfolio 3, no. 56. Diplomatarium Norwegicum 19:309,
written 5 February 1284 at Scone. It starts with a list of names:
"Omnibus Christi fidelibus, ad quos presens scriptum pervenerit,
Alexander Cumyn� comes de Buchan� constabularius et justiciarius
Scotie, Patricius comes de Dunbar�, Mallisius comes de Stratherin,
Malcolmus comes de Leuenax, Robertus de Brus� comes de Carric,
Douenaldus comes de Mar�, Gilbertus comes de Anegus, Walterus comes de
Menethet�, Willielmus comes de Ros�, Willielmus comes Suthirland,
Magnus comes de . . . . . . . . aclin, Duncanus comes de . . . . . . .
et Johannes comes Athol� tunc . . . . . . lleti, Robertus de Brus
Pater, Jacobus senescallus Scotie, Johannes de Balliolo, Johannes
Cumyn, Willielmus de Soulys tunc justiciarius Laodon�, Ingeramus de
Gynis, Willielmus de Moravia filius, Walterus de Moravia milites;
Alexander de [Bal-]liolo, Reginaldus le Chen Pater, Willielmus de
Sancto Claro, Ricardus Syward, Willielmus de Brechyn, Nicholaus de
Haya, Henricus de Graham, Ingeramus de Balliolo, Alanus filius
comitis, Reginaldus le Chen filius, J[ohannes] de Lindesey, Patricius
de . . . "
Inger says that two members of the Sinclair family are mentioned,
Willielmus comes de Ros, which she reads as Roslyn, and his relative
Willielmus de Sancto Claro. But surely the former is the Earl of Ross,
Uilleam mac in tSagairt, who was Mormaer Uilleam II of Ross
(1274-1323)? Was he related to Sinclair at all?
Second question:
Another document is an oath taken in 1379 by Henry Sinclair, Earl of
Orkney and Lord of Roslyn, to defend Orkney on behalf of the Norwegian
king. My question concerns the role of the Bishop of Orkney. Inger
tells me that the Earl swore not to take up friendship with the bishop
of Orkney, since he had made a commitment to the King, and promise to
pay the bishop 1000 Gylden English coin. I find it hard to fit this
with the medieval Latin text, which I don't completely understand:
Jtem promittimus quod nullam debeamus facere colligacionem cum
episcopo Orchadensi nec vllam amiciciam cum ipso statu(e)re uel jnire
nisi de ipsius domini nostri regis beneplacito et consensu. sed ipsi
auxilio esse debemus contra ipsum episcopum donec sibi fecerit quod
juris est vel que merito facere tenebitur super hiis in quibus ipse
dominus noster rex velit uel possit ipsum episcopum racionabiliter
accusare. Preterea cum deus voluerit de medio nos vocare. extunc
comitatus ille et dominium illud cum terris et insulis ac cum omni
jure ad sepedictum dominum nostrum regem heredes suos et successores
libere redire debeat, et si liberos vnum uel plures postnos habuerimus
de nostro proprio corpore procreatos masculos tamen uel masculum.
extunc ille de ipsis qui supradictum comitatum et dominium
affectauerit debet ipsius domini nostri regis heredum et successorum
suorum super hoc requirere graciam beneplacitum et consensum. Jnsuper
promittimus bona fide quod supra dicto domino nostro regi uel ipsius
officiali apud Tunsbergas persoluere debebimus in proximo festo beati
Martini episcopi et confessoris mille aureos qui nobiles nuncupantur
monete anglicane. jn quibus sibi ex justo debito recognoscimus nos
teneri.
The Norwegian summary reads:
"Henrik Sinclair (de sancto Claro), Jarl af Orkn� og Herre af Roslyn,
kund-
gj�r, at han har svoret Kong Haakon Troskab som Jarl, og forpligter
sig
til at tjene ham med 100 fuldrustede M�nd, at forsvare Orkn� og Hjalt-
land mod fiendtligt Angreb, ingen faste Borge der anl�gge uden Kon-
gens Samtykke, ingen Del af �erne afstaa eller pants�tte, ingen Feide
begynde, ei slutte Venskab med Biskoppen af Orkn� f�r denne har for-
ligt sig med Kongen, samt lover at betale denne 1000 Gylden engelsk
Mynt og at hans Sl�gtning Malis Sperra skal opgive sine Fordringer
paa ]arled�mmet, med flere Bestemmelser om Gisler og Borgen for L�f-
ternes Opfyldelse. (jfr. No. 460. 465.)"
What does that say exactly about the nature of relations between the
bishop and the king, and who gets the thousand gold coins?
James Hogg
-
Aug. de Man
Re: Sinclairs: Help with medieval Latin and Norwegian
Jnsuper promittimus bona fide quod supra dicto domino nostro regi
uel ipsius officiali apud Tunsbergas persoluere debebimus in proximo
festo beati Martini episcopi et confessoris mille aureos qui nobiles
nuncupantur monete anglicane.
I agree with Erik Hammerstad.
He promises to pay the money to the king: "domino nostro regi
uel ipsius officiali" = to our Lord the King or his official.
The confusion comes from "episcopi", but "in proximo festo beati
Martini episcopi" means "next St. Martin's Day" (next feast of St.
Martin Bishop).
August de Man
uel ipsius officiali apud Tunsbergas persoluere debebimus in proximo
festo beati Martini episcopi et confessoris mille aureos qui nobiles
nuncupantur monete anglicane.
Inger tells me that the Earl swore not to take up friendship with
the bishop of Orkney, since he had made a commitment to the
King, and promise to pay the bishop 1000 Gylden English coin.
I find it hard to fit this with the medieval Latin text
... who gets the thousand gold coins?
I agree with Erik Hammerstad.
He promises to pay the money to the king: "domino nostro regi
uel ipsius officiali" = to our Lord the King or his official.
The confusion comes from "episcopi", but "in proximo festo beati
Martini episcopi" means "next St. Martin's Day" (next feast of St.
Martin Bishop).
August de Man
-
James Hogg
Re: Sinclairs: Help with medieval Latin and Norwegian
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 21:16:01 +0100, "Aug. de Man" <augdeman a. gmail
dot com> wrote:
Many thanks to you and all the other helpful and knowledgeable people
who have replied in the groups and by email.
Identifying that second bishop in the text, Martin, was especially
helpful for clearing up a confusion.
James
dot com> wrote:
Jnsuper promittimus bona fide quod supra dicto domino nostro regi
uel ipsius officiali apud Tunsbergas persoluere debebimus in proximo
festo beati Martini episcopi et confessoris mille aureos qui nobiles
nuncupantur monete anglicane.
Inger tells me that the Earl swore not to take up friendship with
the bishop of Orkney, since he had made a commitment to the
King, and promise to pay the bishop 1000 Gylden English coin.
I find it hard to fit this with the medieval Latin text
... who gets the thousand gold coins?
I agree with Erik Hammerstad.
He promises to pay the money to the king: "domino nostro regi
uel ipsius officiali" = to our Lord the King or his official.
The confusion comes from "episcopi", but "in proximo festo beati
Martini episcopi" means "next St. Martin's Day" (next feast of St.
Martin Bishop).
August de Man
Many thanks to you and all the other helpful and knowledgeable people
who have replied in the groups and by email.
Identifying that second bishop in the text, Martin, was especially
helpful for clearing up a confusion.
James
-
Alan Crozier
Re: Sinclairs: Help with medieval Latin and Norwegian
"Erik Hammerstad" <egeha.is.all.you.need@start.no> wrote in message
news:5rde4aF13ol31U1@mid.individual.net...
Yes. Here's a full translation of the Norwegian summary:
Henry Sinclair (de sancto Claro), Earl of Orkney and Lord of Roslyn,
announces that he has sworn allegiance to King Haakon as Earl, and
pledges to serve him with 100 fully equipped men to defend Orkney and
Shetland against hostile attack, not to build any fortified castle
without the King's consent, not to cede or pawn any part of the islands,
not to start any feud, not to enter into friendship with the Bishop of
Orkney until the latter has settled with the King, and promises to pay
the latter 1000 English gold coins and that his relative Malis Sperra
will renounce his claims on the earldom, with other rules about hostages
and guarantees for the fulfilment of the promises.
The false friend here for a Swede is the Norwegian word "för" (=before,
Swedish "före"), which does not mean the same as the Swedish word
"för" (=for, since, Norwegian "for").
The summary doesn't say anything about why the Norwegian king had an
unsettled dispute with the Bishop of Orkney.
Alan
(nice to see a medieval topic on soc.history.medieval)
news:5rde4aF13ol31U1@mid.individual.net...
James Hogg wrote:
The Norwegian summary reads:
"Henrik Sinclair (de sancto Claro), Jarl af Orknö og Herre af
Roslyn,
kund-
gjör, at han har svoret Kong Haakon Troskab som Jarl, og forpligter
sig
til at tjene ham med 100 fuldrustede Mænd, at forsvare Orknö og
Hjalt-
land mod fiendtligt Angreb, ingen faste Borge der anlægge uden Kon-
gens Samtykke, ingen Del af Öerne afstaa eller pantsætte, ingen
Feide
begynde, ei slutte Venskab med Biskoppen af Orknö, för denne har
for-
ligt sig med Kongen, samt lover at betale denne 1000 Gylden engelsk
Mynt og at hans Slægtning Malis Sperra skal opgive sine Fordringer
paa ]arledömmet, med flere Bestemmelser om Gisler og Borgen for Löf-
ternes Opfyldelse. (jfr. No. 460. 465.)"
What does that say exactly about the nature of relations between the
bishop and the king, and who gets the thousand gold coins?
I read the Norwegian text as the King and Bishop being enemies at
the time, and that the King gets the gold coins.
Yes. Here's a full translation of the Norwegian summary:
Henry Sinclair (de sancto Claro), Earl of Orkney and Lord of Roslyn,
announces that he has sworn allegiance to King Haakon as Earl, and
pledges to serve him with 100 fully equipped men to defend Orkney and
Shetland against hostile attack, not to build any fortified castle
without the King's consent, not to cede or pawn any part of the islands,
not to start any feud, not to enter into friendship with the Bishop of
Orkney until the latter has settled with the King, and promises to pay
the latter 1000 English gold coins and that his relative Malis Sperra
will renounce his claims on the earldom, with other rules about hostages
and guarantees for the fulfilment of the promises.
The false friend here for a Swede is the Norwegian word "för" (=before,
Swedish "före"), which does not mean the same as the Swedish word
"för" (=for, since, Norwegian "for").
The summary doesn't say anything about why the Norwegian king had an
unsettled dispute with the Bishop of Orkney.
Alan
(nice to see a medieval topic on soc.history.medieval)
-
Erik Hammerstad
Re: Sinclairs: Help with medieval Latin and Norwegian
Alan Crozier wrote:
Agreed, but actually the Norwegian text is also somewhat
ambiguous, since what you translate as "promises to pay the
latter" is IMHO more correctly translated as promises to pay
_him_, and then who him was would hinge on whose relative Malis
Sperra was. If Sperra was related to the Bishop, I would expect
the Bishop to get the gold, but since Sperra is Sinclair's
relative, your translation is surely correct
"Erik Hammerstad" <egeha.is.all.you.need@start.no> wrote in message
news:5rde4aF13ol31U1@mid.individual.net...
James Hogg wrote:
The Norwegian summary reads:
"Henrik Sinclair (de sancto Claro), Jarl af Orknö og Herre af
Roslyn,
kund-
gjör, at han har svoret Kong Haakon Troskab som Jarl, og forpligter
sig
til at tjene ham med 100 fuldrustede Mænd, at forsvare Orknö og
Hjalt-
land mod fiendtligt Angreb, ingen faste Borge der anlægge uden Kon-
gens Samtykke, ingen Del af Öerne afstaa eller pantsætte, ingen
Feide
begynde, ei slutte Venskab med Biskoppen af Orknö, för denne har
for-
ligt sig med Kongen, samt lover at betale denne 1000 Gylden engelsk
Mynt og at hans Slægtning Malis Sperra skal opgive sine Fordringer
paa ]arledömmet, med flere Bestemmelser om Gisler og Borgen for Löf-
ternes Opfyldelse. (jfr. No. 460. 465.)"
What does that say exactly about the nature of relations between the
bishop and the king, and who gets the thousand gold coins?
I read the Norwegian text as the King and Bishop being enemies at
the time, and that the King gets the gold coins.
Yes. Here's a full translation of the Norwegian summary:
Henry Sinclair (de sancto Claro), Earl of Orkney and Lord of Roslyn,
announces that he has sworn allegiance to King Haakon as Earl, and
pledges to serve him with 100 fully equipped men to defend Orkney and
Shetland against hostile attack, not to build any fortified castle
without the King's consent, not to cede or pawn any part of the islands,
not to start any feud, not to enter into friendship with the Bishop of
Orkney until the latter has settled with the King, and promises to pay
the latter 1000 English gold coins and that his relative Malis Sperra
will renounce his claims on the earldom, with other rules about hostages
and guarantees for the fulfilment of the promises.
The false friend here for a Swede is the Norwegian word "för" (=before,
Swedish "före"), which does not mean the same as the Swedish word
"för" (=for, since, Norwegian "for").
The summary doesn't say anything about why the Norwegian king had an
unsettled dispute with the Bishop of Orkney.
Alan
(nice to see a medieval topic on soc.history.medieval)
Agreed, but actually the Norwegian text is also somewhat
ambiguous, since what you translate as "promises to pay the
latter" is IMHO more correctly translated as promises to pay
_him_, and then who him was would hinge on whose relative Malis
Sperra was. If Sperra was related to the Bishop, I would expect
the Bishop to get the gold, but since Sperra is Sinclair's
relative, your translation is surely correct