Margaret Butler of Tighes Cuckfield Sussex Ancestor of Georg

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Gjest

Margaret Butler of Tighes Cuckfield Sussex Ancestor of Georg

Legg inn av Gjest » 30 nov 2007 14:25:04

Good Morning All,
It has been a long time.. Since the Lancaster affair of 2 years ago.
Finally, having some time and going over weird things concerning all
things Butler, and all the lines, the one that bothers me(actually
many lines not even close to right) is that of Margaret Butler, Dau.
of William Butler, Grand daughter of George Butler of Tyes (Tighes)
(Tees) Hall, Cuckfield, Sussex.
There have been unfathom-able family records, articles and books
concerning Margaret Butler and Lawrence Washington, Ancestors of
George Washington.
Problem 1. It has been stated everywhere including by George in the
visitations records if I remember correctly as he puts it, they were
all at Tighes Hall(Manor) HOW????
1492 John Michell had it d. 1525
then his son John d. 1546 left it to his son Edmund who died and left
it to his son Thomas who FINALLY sold it to William Butler, father of
Margaret Butler in 1585, who's son Roger had it still iin 1619 'A
History of the County Sussex, Vol 17, a Deeds, Coll. B, Sussex Rec.
Soc. xx, 450.
Problem 2. I have seen in a book published iin 1900 that the father of
Margaret was named Walter Butler, Maybe Walter George or George
Walter? Any one with more knowledge than I I would appreciate your
thoughts.
Best Regards,
Emmett L. Butler

wjhonson

Re: Margaret Butler of Tighes Cuckfield Sussex Ancestor of G

Legg inn av wjhonson » 01 des 2007 08:19:02

I don't know your source for saying they were all at Tighes Hall, I
think it's false.

The Washington's were of Sulgrave and Brington

William Boteler's mother was the heiress of Aston-le-Wals, his
father's family was of Sawbridgeworth

William Boteler's wife is called "of Palsters"

By the way this line is included in

Living Descendents of Blood Royal, Vol 2, "Keyser", pg 485-487
and also
Living Descendents of Blood Royal, Vol 2, "Cocke", pg 224-230

They cite NEH Reg 94:251
for the Butler/Washington couple

Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Margaret Butler of Tighes Cuckfield Sussex Ancestor of G

Legg inn av Gjest » 01 des 2007 18:40:03

On Dec 1, 1:15�am, wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
I don't know your source for saying they were all at Tighes Hall, I
think it's false.

The Washington's were of Sulgrave and Brington

William Boteler's mother was the heiress of Aston-le-Wals, his
father's family was of Sawbridgeworth

William Boteler's wife is called "of Palsters"

By the way this line is included in

Living Descendents of Blood Royal, Vol 2, "Keyser", pg 485-487
and also
Living Descendents of Blood Royal, Vol 2, "Cocke", pg 224-230

They cite NEH Reg 94:251
for the Butler/Washington couple

Will Johnson

Good Morning Will and All,
Precisely what I thought and thank you for responding, just wondering
why others continued in their lines this in-correct venue of Tighes
descent when data shows otherwise. Concerning Walter Butler instead of
William Butler as the father of Margaret, wife of Lawrence Washington,
in the book,

"Some Colonial Mansions And Those Who Lived In Them With Genealogies
Of The Various Families Mentioned" by Thomas Allen Glenn
copyright 1899, published 1900 by Henry Coates & Co. p. 24,

It states that Sir Henry Dryden, the Northamptonshire Antiquarian
found that the Washington house in Brington, after the forced sale of
Sulgrave Manor due to it being heavily mortgaged, had the coat of arms
for the Washingtons and the various different families they inter-
married with and hence the descent described, After the Washington
family vacated the house, he located 2 of the windows in the
possession of Lady Hanmers and 6 windows located in the church of
Tawsley.
It should be noted that the Washington house in Brington was in a
severe state of decay by 1890 but there is a photo in the book of it
but no longer may be in existance(the house). This book has been
converted to a free google book and it may be seen on-line.
Regarding Walter, one of three things may exist:
1. Walter was the actual father of Margaret not William regardless of
what "official" sources say.
2. William may be the correct name, but, as probably Catholics, his
baptismal name or even just a middle name could have been Walter
William or William Walter but went by William
3.The arms are indeed those of Walter but would have been those of
Ralphs father Walter, son of Edmund son of James Butler, 3rd Earl of
Ormonde and Catherine Fitzgerald by whom he had 4 illigit. sons,
Edmund being one of those 4. This is referred to in "The Annals of 4
Masters" and explicitly talked of in "The Calander of Ormonde Deeds"
either Vol I or II, I do not have them in front of me, including
Catherines' letters to James demanding he marry her or giving her and
her sons their just due. James gave them extensive holdings and
lesser titles as he could not marry her as Catherine was the daughter
of his sister(his neice) Eleanor and Gerald fitzMaurice Fitzgerald,
3rd Earl of Desmond of whom he killed at the river when Gerald came to
stop this offense against his family and wife and daughter!
Personally I subscribe to #3 as being where the name Walter Butler
came into play but I would have thought that Sir Dryden being
there(ready access to data) and in the region but then that means #1
is correct, any ideas on how to confirm or deny this position??!!!
It would be nice to close this chapter on that Butler line so that I
can concentrate on the next line, that of the Butlers of Rawcliffe and
much much more interesting and full of wild surprises.
Best Regards
Emmett L. Butler

Douglas Richardson

Re: Margaret Butler of Tighes Cuckfield Sussex Ancestor of G

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 01 des 2007 20:25:03

Dear Emmett ~

Margaret Butler, wife of Lawrence Washington, Esq., is assigned as a
child of William Butler, of Tighes [i.e., Tyes Hall], Sussex, in the
Butler family pedigree in the 1681 Visitation of Northamptonshire,
which was published in 1935 as Harliean Society Publications, volume
87 (1935): 32-36. My file notes give the following pedigree:

1. "John Butler, of Aston in le Walls in com: Northamp. = Margaret
dau'r and heir of John Dudley of Aston in le Walls in Com: Northt."

2. "William Butler, of Tighes, of Sussex, Esq. = ... daur. of [left
blank]"

3. "Margaret [Butler] wife of Laurence Washington of Sulgrave, Esq."

I note that the words "of Tighes, of Sussex, Esq." and "of Sulgrave,
Esq." are set in italics in the published pedigree. There is a reason
for this. I suggest you consult the published visitation to find out
the reason for the italics.

There is additional information on the Butler and Washington families
in Metcalfe, Vis. of Northamptonshire, 1564 & 1618-9 (1887): 8, 152.

I note that there is also an article on Margaret Greeke, wife of
William Butler, of Tyes Hall (in Cuckfield), Sussex, which was
published in Notes & Queries, n.s. 24 (1977): 499, et seq. This
article was written by a Mr. Washington, the value of whose work is
debatable. Regardless, I encourage you to seek out a copy of this
article.

You might also wish to consult Misc. Gen. & Heraldica, 4th Ser. 4
(1912): 30-31, 69-70, which gives a pedigree of the Fulwer or Fuller
family. This pedigree gives the following information regarding
Margaret (Butler) Washington's grandparents:

"M'garet [Sutton] on of the doters & heyres maryed to John Butler of
Aston in the woll."

The Sutton family was known as both Sutton and Dudley.

These references should keep you busy for a while. Good luck in your
sleuthing.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»