Fw: Fw: Maternal Grandmother of King Robert III of Scotland

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Leo van de Pas

Fw: Fw: Maternal Grandmother of King Robert III of Scotland

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 24 nov 2007 00:21:38

Why not? But how does Fokeltie fit in?
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim" <A.Windemere@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Maternal Grandmother of King Robert III of Scotland


On Nov 23, 3:15 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
Again, look at the bottom this time



----- Original Message -----
From: "John P. Ravilious" <ther...@aol.com

Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 2:17 AM
Subject: Re: Maternal Grandmother of King Robert III of Scotland

Dear Tim, Bronwen, et al.

Concerning the ancestry of Adam Mure of Rowallan (father of
Elizabeth, 1st wife of Robert II, K of Scots), much is debated and
nothing has been validated as yet. I have 2 theories I'm working on,
but am nowhere near finding sufficient evidence to provide a
conjecture at this point.

In the lineage you set forth, among other items I note:

Ada De Balliol (married Sir William De Lindsay), mother of:
Margaret De Lindsay (married William Mure), mother of:

There is no evidence for this Margaret de Lindsay. Sir William
de Lindsay and Ada de Baliol had a sole surviving daughter Christian
(or Christiana), born 25 March 1267, d. 1333, having had by her
husband Enguerrand V de Coucy a son William/Guillaume de Coucy [W.
Farrer, Lancashire Inquests, Extents and Feudal Aids, pp. 253-257.
See also Sanders, English Baronies, p. 57].

Next we have:

Adam Mure of Rowallon (married 1st Joan Cunningham, 2nd Jannet Mure of
Fokeltie), father of:
Elizabeth Mure (married King Robert II), mother of:

There is no evidence that I have seen to date that supports the
Jannet Mure (of Pokellie/Pokelly) marriage most often seen online. We
have evidence of the Cunningham marriage, in a dispensation of Pope
John XXII, dated at Avignon, 4 Kal. Sept. [29 Aug.] 1322:

' To Adam de Mor and Joan de Cunningham. Dispensation to remain
in the marriage which they have contracted. Joan, knowing that
Adam was related in the third degree to her former husband, Hugh
de Huesco, at first refused to marry him, but when the archdeacon
of Glasgow showed her certain letters patent of the bishop
granting a dispensation, she consented, Adam being aware that
these letters were worthless. Their offspring, past and future,
is declared legitimate. ' [W. H. Bliss, ed., CPL II:224, cites
Theiner, 225]

Given that Robert the Stewart (later Robert II) and Elizabeth
Mure had issue ca. 1335-1337 (Margaret; then John, Earl of Carrick,
later Robert III) it is safe to say that, among the 'offspring past
and future' noted in the dispensation as already living in 1322, we
would find the young girl Elizabeth Mure, likely born say 1316x1319.

Cheers,

John
Dear John,
This last paragraph is compelling to make Elizabeth Mure (wife of Robert
II)
a daughter of Joan de Cunningham, but now an awkward question, how do we
know that Adam de Mor is her father? Is Adam de Mor and Adam Mure of
Rowallan one and the same person? What if there were two : Adam de Mor
and
a Adam Mure of Rowallan?
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Is there any possibility that Joan de Cunningham and Jannet Mure are
the same person ? 'Mure' may be her married name. I'm just guessing.

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