In perusing the wargs' ahnentafel of Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney the other night, I came across the following entry (individual # 2068) which surprised me:
Thomas Fell, b. ... 1598, d. ... 8 Oct. 1658
The reason this entry caught my attention is that I recognized the person's name and date of death. This particular Thomas Fell, of Swarthmoor Hall, Ulverston, Lancs. (now Cumbria), was an MP, a judge, and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. His wife, nee Margaret Askew (1614-1702), later married one George Fox, founder of the Society of Friends, and was one of the five most famous Quaker leaders of the movement's founding generation.
Why am I certain that this is the same Thomas Fell whom we Quakers remember as a friend to our faith, though not himself a member?
1st: The online index to the Oxford DND gives Judge Thomas Fell's birth and death dates as 1598 and 1658, respectively. This agrees with Mr. Reitweisner's dates, as well as with the dates given in a footnote in the John Nickalls edition of George Fox's Journal (p. 113).
2nd: The descendants of Mitt Romney's ancestor Thomas Fell lived in Barrow-in-Furness for several generations, and this town is only a short distance from Ulverston, Swarthmore Hall (Judge Fell's estate), and Dalton-in-Furness (birthplace of Judge Fell's wife, Margaret Askew Fell Fox).
3rd: Judge Fell and Margaret Askew are known to have had a son named George, as did the Thomas Fell who is Romney's ancestor. In addition, Romney's ancestor George Fell (# 1034) had a daughter named Margaret, which would make sense if he were, in fact, the son of Juge Thomas Fell and Margaret (Askew) Fell Fox.
It would be quite interesting to see what the ONDB has to say about Judge Thomas Fell (Oxford Biography Index Number 101009262; http://www.oxforddnb.com/index/101009262) and his wife Margaret (Oxford Biography Index Number 101009260; http://www.oxforddnb.com/index/101009260). Perhaps someone with access to the ONDB will be interested and kind enough to post a precis for the rest of us -- in which case, thanks in advance.
David Teague
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Mitt Romney's interesting ancestry
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Vance Mead
Re: Mitt Romney's interesting ancestry
David
I noticed I have quite a few direct ancestors in common with Mitt
Romney, among them:
1826 Samuel Boltwood
912 Nathaniel Kellogg
906 Ebenezer Mead
So I guess that makes us at least as closely related as Barack Obama
and Dick Cheney.
Was this the Thomas Fell whose daughter Sarah Fell married William
Mead? William Mead was arrested together with William Penn in what
became a famous test case about the rights of juries.
Vance Mead
I noticed I have quite a few direct ancestors in common with Mitt
Romney, among them:
1826 Samuel Boltwood
912 Nathaniel Kellogg
906 Ebenezer Mead
So I guess that makes us at least as closely related as Barack Obama
and Dick Cheney.
Was this the Thomas Fell whose daughter Sarah Fell married William
Mead? William Mead was arrested together with William Penn in what
became a famous test case about the rights of juries.
Vance Mead
In perusing the wargs' ahnentafel of Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney the other night, I came across the following entry (individual # 2068) which surprised me:
Thomas Fell, b. ... 1598, d. ... 8 Oct. 1658
-
David Teague
RE: Mitt Romney's interesting ancestry
From: vance.mead@mead.inet.fi
Subject: Re: Mitt Romney's interesting ancestry
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 02:15:52 -0800
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
David
I noticed I have quite a few direct ancestors in common with Mitt
Romney, among them:
1826 Samuel Boltwood
912 Nathaniel Kellogg
906 Ebenezer Mead
So I guess that makes us at least as closely related as Barack Obama
and Dick Cheney.
Was this the Thomas Fell whose daughter Sarah Fell married William
Mead? William Mead was arrested together with William Penn in what
became a famous test case about the rights of juries.
Vance Mead
Vance,
Judge Thomas Fell's daughter Sarah did, indeed, marry William Mead, in 1681 (IIRC). Do I surmise correctly that you, too, are descended from one of George Fox's stepchildren?
David Teague
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Vance Mead
Re: Mitt Romney's interesting ancestry
No, I'm descended from a different William Mead, though I have
information on the Quaker William Mead's family going back to the
early 16th century. They came from Soulbury Bucks, near Aylesbury,
while mine were from Watford, about 15 miles away in Herts. It's
possible that they were connected back in the 15th century, but
there's not enough documentation to prove it.
Vance
information on the Quaker William Mead's family going back to the
early 16th century. They came from Soulbury Bucks, near Aylesbury,
while mine were from Watford, about 15 miles away in Herts. It's
possible that they were connected back in the 15th century, but
there's not enough documentation to prove it.
Vance
Judge Thomas Fell's daughter Sarah did, indeed, marry William Mead, in 1681 (IIRC). Do I surmise correctly that you, too, are descended from one of George Fox's stepchildren?
David Teague
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wjhonson
Re: Mitt Romney's interesting ancestry
A few small morsels, which you probably already know, but others may
not.
Wikipedia has a biography on George Fox here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Fox
which gives his dates as 1624-1691
They also have a seperate biography on Margaret (Askew) Fell 1614-1702
here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Fell
which adds that she was born in
Dalton-in-Furness, Lancashire, England
They state that she and George married in 1669, do you have dates for
George Fell and/or his sister Sarah Fell? Also they do *not* state
who Margaret's parents may have been, perhaps you know that?
Thanks
Will Johnson
not.
Wikipedia has a biography on George Fox here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Fox
which gives his dates as 1624-1691
They also have a seperate biography on Margaret (Askew) Fell 1614-1702
here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Fell
which adds that she was born in
Dalton-in-Furness, Lancashire, England
They state that she and George married in 1669, do you have dates for
George Fell and/or his sister Sarah Fell? Also they do *not* state
who Margaret's parents may have been, perhaps you know that?
Thanks
Will Johnson
-
David Teague
RE: Mitt Romney's interesting ancestry
Will,
Thanks for the links.
I have George Fell as being born in 1639 and Sarah (Fell) Mead(e) as living from 1643 to 1714. I can also tell you that the old edition of the DNB opens its article on Margaret Fell thusly:
"FELL, MARGARET (1614-1702), quakeress [sic], daughter of John Askew of Marsh Grange, in the parish of Dalton-in-Furness, Lancashire, a gentleman of ancient lineage and good estate, was born in 1614."
David Teague
_________________________________________________________________
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Thanks for the links.
I have George Fell as being born in 1639 and Sarah (Fell) Mead(e) as living from 1643 to 1714. I can also tell you that the old edition of the DNB opens its article on Margaret Fell thusly:
"FELL, MARGARET (1614-1702), quakeress [sic], daughter of John Askew of Marsh Grange, in the parish of Dalton-in-Furness, Lancashire, a gentleman of ancient lineage and good estate, was born in 1614."
David Teague
From: wjhonson@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mitt Romney's interesting ancestry
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:37:59 -0800
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
A few small morsels, which you probably already know, but others may
not.
Wikipedia has a biography on George Fox here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Fox
which gives his dates as 1624-1691
They also have a seperate biography on Margaret (Askew) Fell 1614-1702
here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Fell
which adds that she was born in
Dalton-in-Furness, Lancashire, England
They state that she and George married in 1669, do you have dates for
George Fell and/or his sister Sarah Fell? Also they do *not* state
who Margaret's parents may have been, perhaps you know that?
Thanks
Will Johnson
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Vance Mead
Re: Mitt Romney's interesting ancestry
Here is some more about William Mead. This is by Henry J. Mead,
Solicitor of the Supreme Court, in a tract written in 1918.
William Mead was the second son of Richard Meade, of Soulbury, and
Joane his wife. William Mead was born in 1627 and was baptized at
Soulbury on 14th November in that year. When a young man he went to
London, entered into business as a linen draper in Fenchurch Street,
and prospered. He was admitted to the freedom of the Merchant Taylor's
Company on 9th January 1655/6 by patrimony in virtue of his father's
membership, was admitted to the livery in 1658 and acted as Master in
1706. After a time he lived at a house in Highgate. He was a Captain
in the London Trained Bands, a military body now represented by the
Honourable Artillery Company. Prior to 1670 he joined the Society of
Friends and held a leading position among them and several times
waited upon the King with George Whitehead and others. About 1684 he
purchased the estate of Goosehays, about three miles from Romford in
Essex. He wrote in conjunction with Whitehead and others several
vindiciations of "the people called quakers." One of these was
delivered to the House of Lords, 21st February 1701. He died at
Goosehays on 3rd April 1713, aged 86, and was buried in the Friends'
Cemetary at Barking.
William Mead married and lost his first wife, Mary Lawrence, in
1679. A child, Jonathan, died in 1680. In 1681 he married Sarah Fell,
fourth daughter of Thomas Fell. Judge Fell died in 1658, and Margaret
Fell his widow was married in 1669 to George Fox. Mead by his marriage
with Sarah became Fox's stepson. She was beautiful, an eloquent
preacher and a good Hebrew scholar and was the correspondent of Penn
and Barclay. She died at Goosehays on 9th June 1714. George Fox was a
frequent visitor at Highgate and at Goosehays, and in his Journal
frequently refers to Mead. Mead by his will left to Nathaniel Mead,
his "dear and only child," his estates in London, Middlesex, Kent,
Essex and Surrey, and many legacies to the poor among Quakers and
others.
Sir Nathaniel Mead, Knight, the only surviving son of William Mead,
was born in March 1684, was entered at the Inner Temple, was called to
the bar and became a serjeant-at-law. He was elected M.P. for
Aylesbury in 1714 and was knighted by George I. He sold the Goosehays
estate. He died on 17th April 1760, at his house in Litchfield Street,
London. He had two sons, Robert and William. Both died in infancy and
were buried at Romford. His widow Martha, Lady Mead, died in 1779 and
was also buried at Romford.
Solicitor of the Supreme Court, in a tract written in 1918.
William Mead was the second son of Richard Meade, of Soulbury, and
Joane his wife. William Mead was born in 1627 and was baptized at
Soulbury on 14th November in that year. When a young man he went to
London, entered into business as a linen draper in Fenchurch Street,
and prospered. He was admitted to the freedom of the Merchant Taylor's
Company on 9th January 1655/6 by patrimony in virtue of his father's
membership, was admitted to the livery in 1658 and acted as Master in
1706. After a time he lived at a house in Highgate. He was a Captain
in the London Trained Bands, a military body now represented by the
Honourable Artillery Company. Prior to 1670 he joined the Society of
Friends and held a leading position among them and several times
waited upon the King with George Whitehead and others. About 1684 he
purchased the estate of Goosehays, about three miles from Romford in
Essex. He wrote in conjunction with Whitehead and others several
vindiciations of "the people called quakers." One of these was
delivered to the House of Lords, 21st February 1701. He died at
Goosehays on 3rd April 1713, aged 86, and was buried in the Friends'
Cemetary at Barking.
William Mead married and lost his first wife, Mary Lawrence, in
1679. A child, Jonathan, died in 1680. In 1681 he married Sarah Fell,
fourth daughter of Thomas Fell. Judge Fell died in 1658, and Margaret
Fell his widow was married in 1669 to George Fox. Mead by his marriage
with Sarah became Fox's stepson. She was beautiful, an eloquent
preacher and a good Hebrew scholar and was the correspondent of Penn
and Barclay. She died at Goosehays on 9th June 1714. George Fox was a
frequent visitor at Highgate and at Goosehays, and in his Journal
frequently refers to Mead. Mead by his will left to Nathaniel Mead,
his "dear and only child," his estates in London, Middlesex, Kent,
Essex and Surrey, and many legacies to the poor among Quakers and
others.
Sir Nathaniel Mead, Knight, the only surviving son of William Mead,
was born in March 1684, was entered at the Inner Temple, was called to
the bar and became a serjeant-at-law. He was elected M.P. for
Aylesbury in 1714 and was knighted by George I. He sold the Goosehays
estate. He died on 17th April 1760, at his house in Litchfield Street,
London. He had two sons, Robert and William. Both died in infancy and
were buried at Romford. His widow Martha, Lady Mead, died in 1779 and
was also buried at Romford.
I have George Fell as being born in 1639 and Sarah (Fell) Mead(e) as living from 1643 to 1714. I can also tell you that the old edition of the DNB opens its article on Margaret Fell thusly:
"FELL, MARGARET (1614-1702), quakeress [sic], daughter of John Askew of Marsh Grange, in the parish of Dalton-in-Furness, Lancashire, a gentleman of ancient lineage and good estate, was born in 1614."
-
wjhonson
Re: Mitt Romney's interesting ancestry
W.A.R. in Mitt Romney's ancestry here
http://www.wargs.com/political/romney.html
Shows as #1034 George Fell, no wife's name, no death date, etc.
We can now know that George Fell was dead by 1691, when Charles Fell,
his son and heir has a conveyance, naming his father as already
deceased, naming his widowed grandmother (as such) "Margaret Fox of
Swarthmore", and naming his own mother as "Hannah Fell of Swarthmore"
Will Johnson
Cumbria Record Office, Kendal: Messrs Radcliffe and Co., solicitors,
London
MESSRS RADCLIFFES and CO., SOLICITORS, LONDON
Catalogue Ref. WD RAD
Creator(s): Radcliffe and Co, London, solicitors
TITLE DEEDS
MATSON FAMILY
Rouse Mill, Little Mill, Orgrave Mill and Windmill, Dalton-in-Furness
FILE - Conveyance to make a tenant to precipe and lead uses of a
recovery, 8 July 1691 - ref. WD RAD/T 21 - date: 1691
[from Scope and Content] 1. Charles Fell of Swarthmore, Ulverston,
Lancashire esq., son and heir of George Fell of Marsh Grange,
Lancashire, esq., deceased, and Mary his wife; Margarett Fox of
Swarthmore, widow grandmother of Charles, once wife of Thomas Fell of
Swarthmore, esq., deceased; Hannah Fell of Swarthmore widow of said
George Fell and mother of Charles; Isabella Greaves, daughter of
George Fell, wife of James Greaves of Firle, Sussex, esq.; John Rowe
of Kingston, Surrey, merchant and Margarett his wife; Abraham Morrice
of Lincoln, mercer and Isabella his wife; William Mead of Fenchurch
street in London, merchant, and Sarah his wife; Thomas Lower of Marsh
Grange, Lancashire, gent. and Mary his wife; William Ingram of London,
tallowchandler, and Susannah his wife; Daniel Abraham of Swarthmore,
gent., and Rachel his wife (wives being six surviving daughters of
Thomas Fell); Thomas Colton of Ulverston, yeoman and Mary his wife (he
being surviving executor of will of Thomas Fell)
http://www.wargs.com/political/romney.html
Shows as #1034 George Fell, no wife's name, no death date, etc.
We can now know that George Fell was dead by 1691, when Charles Fell,
his son and heir has a conveyance, naming his father as already
deceased, naming his widowed grandmother (as such) "Margaret Fox of
Swarthmore", and naming his own mother as "Hannah Fell of Swarthmore"
Will Johnson
Cumbria Record Office, Kendal: Messrs Radcliffe and Co., solicitors,
London
MESSRS RADCLIFFES and CO., SOLICITORS, LONDON
Catalogue Ref. WD RAD
Creator(s): Radcliffe and Co, London, solicitors
TITLE DEEDS
MATSON FAMILY
Rouse Mill, Little Mill, Orgrave Mill and Windmill, Dalton-in-Furness
FILE - Conveyance to make a tenant to precipe and lead uses of a
recovery, 8 July 1691 - ref. WD RAD/T 21 - date: 1691
[from Scope and Content] 1. Charles Fell of Swarthmore, Ulverston,
Lancashire esq., son and heir of George Fell of Marsh Grange,
Lancashire, esq., deceased, and Mary his wife; Margarett Fox of
Swarthmore, widow grandmother of Charles, once wife of Thomas Fell of
Swarthmore, esq., deceased; Hannah Fell of Swarthmore widow of said
George Fell and mother of Charles; Isabella Greaves, daughter of
George Fell, wife of James Greaves of Firle, Sussex, esq.; John Rowe
of Kingston, Surrey, merchant and Margarett his wife; Abraham Morrice
of Lincoln, mercer and Isabella his wife; William Mead of Fenchurch
street in London, merchant, and Sarah his wife; Thomas Lower of Marsh
Grange, Lancashire, gent. and Mary his wife; William Ingram of London,
tallowchandler, and Susannah his wife; Daniel Abraham of Swarthmore,
gent., and Rachel his wife (wives being six surviving daughters of
Thomas Fell); Thomas Colton of Ulverston, yeoman and Mary his wife (he
being surviving executor of will of Thomas Fell)