my message I said that Margaret's son (who was John Talbot, Viscount Lisle)
had one son and one daughter. John Talbot, 2nd Earl of Shrewsbury had at
least five sons and one daughter.
I have also been told that Salop appears to be correct, it does not mean
Salisbury (Sarum). my mistake.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: "wjhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: Lady Eleanor Butler - who was she?
On Nov 19, 12:05 am, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au
wrote:
Plantagenet Encyclopedia (editor Elizabeth Hallam) page 38 gives
Butler, Lady Eleanor
died 1468. Daughter of John Talbot, earl of Shrewsbury; said to have been
Edward IV's mistress in her youth. A rumour allegedly put about by
Richard, 3rd duke of Gloucester, later Richard III, claimed that Edward
IV had contracted to marry Lady Eleanor, that his marriage to Elizabeth
Woodville on 1 May 1464 was therefor invalid and that the young Edward V
was consequently illegitimate and not entitled to the throne.
This tells me that Lady Eleanor was born a Talbot. This also infers that
Lady Eleanor, to become a Butler _must_ have married, I guess, after 1
May 1464.
But why can't I find a Lady Eleanor Talbot, born in the appropriate
period, as a daughter of the 1st or 2rd Earl of Shrewsbury. Why doesn't
Burke's Peerage mention her? Keep in mind Edward IV was born in 1442.
BP 1999 page 2604 John Talbot, 1st Earl of Shrewsbury, married 2ndly 6
September 1425 Lady Margaret de Beauchamp. Here they speculate that Lady
Margaret de Beauchamp, by later doctrine, was Baroness Berkeley, and when
she died (according to the same doctrine) the title should have gone into
abeyance between her _three daughters_. This I do not understand, why
should her titles go to the daughters when she had a son (who died before
her and had a son and a daughter?) In any case, I can find only two
daughters mentioned :
1.Lady Joan Talbot who married in 1457 and again before 26 April 1474
2.Lady Elizabeth Talbot who married in 1448------------by the way Edward
IV was born in 1442 and so how much older was Lady Eleanor, if she was
the third daughter?
---------------
Not sure anyone addressed the above mention of a son for Margaret
Beauchamp.
Leo are you referring to John Talbot, 2nd Earl of Shrewsbury who d 10
Jul 1460 in battle ?
If so, he was not the son of Margaret Beauchamp but rather of Maud
Neville, Baroness Furnival, the *first* wife of John Talbot.
Will Johnson
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message