Complete Peerage Addition: Death date of Sir Richard de Dove

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Douglas Richardson

Complete Peerage Addition: Death date of Sir Richard de Dove

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 20 nov 2007 09:21:02

Dear Newsgroup ~

Sir Richard de Dover (or de Chilham), grandson of King John, married
before 2 Dec. 1247 Maud of Angus, suo jure Countess of Angus, widow
successively of John Comyn (died 1242) and Gilbert de Umfreville, of
Prudhoe, Northumberland (died shortly before 13 March 1244/5), and
daughter of Malcolm, Earl of Angus, by Mary, daughter and heiress of
Humphrey de Berkeley. They had one son, Richard, and one daughter,
Isabel.

Sir Richard de Dover's death date has never been established.
Complete Peerage, 1 (1910): 146 (sub Angus) gives no particulars at
all of his death. Matthew Paris states that he died in 1245, but this
record probably refers to his father of the same name who died
shortly before 24 June 1246. In any event, the younger can hardly
have died in 1245, as his wife, Countess Maud, was still married to
her second husband in the early part of that year.

G.J. Turner's outstanding article on the Dover-Chilham family in the
Genealogist, n.s. 22 (1906): 105-110, indicates that there is an entry
in one of the rolls of letters close which suggests that Richard de
Dover was living as late as 27 Nov. 1247. Also, by letters close
dated 2 December 1247, the king also directed that the Wardens of
Eleham Park should cause the Countess of Angus, the wife of Richard de
Dover, to have four bucks of the king's gift. These two items would
suggest that Sir Richard de Dover was living as late as1247.

The next record which I find of Sir Richard de Dover is a record dated
1260, which indicates that Queen Eleanor presented to the church of
Lutton, Northamptonshire in that year in right of the custody of the
heir of Sir Richard de Dover [Dom. Ric. de Dover], which presentation
the king had previously recovered from Sir William Mamion and Laurette
his wife [Reference: Bridges, Hist. & Antiq. of Northamptonshire, 2
(1791): 460]. However, the year 1261 must be be intended for the date
of presentation, as Queen Eleanor was not granted the lands and heirs
of Richard de Dover's mother, Rohese de Dover, until 11 Feb. 1261.
The Queen can only have presented to the Lutton church in right of the
1261 grant. This is further supported by Turner's article which shows
that the king recovered the presentation of Lutton church from William
Marmion and his wife in Trinity term 1261, at which date Richard de
Dover was stated to be dead. Trinity term in 1261 commenced on 27
June 1261, thus the Queen can not have presented to Lutton any earlier
than this date.

Thus, it would appear that Sir Richard de Dover was living 2 December
1247, but dead before 11 Feb. 1261.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Ian Wallace

Re: Complete Peerage Addition: Death date of Sir Richard de

Legg inn av Ian Wallace » 22 nov 2007 01:22:02

Just a gloss on Doug's interesting comments.

For some time I have been trying to find out what happened to the
heart of Sir Richard de Dover's mum, Rohese de Dover (otherwise Rose
of Dover). (She was my wife's 23 x great grandmother so I feel a
personal interest.)

This relict is supposed to have been removed from its burial place in
Lesness Abbey during excavations in about 1909/1910. Some materials
from these excavations found their way eventually into the care of the
local authority (now the London Borough of Bexley) but the heart of
Rohese de Dover was not apparently among the material deposited. It
does not seem to have been reburied, possibly it was retained by the
excavator.

Ian.

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