Monday, 19 November, 2007
Dear Leo, Will, et al.,
I noted over the weekend an interesting work by Joseph
Foster, entitled "Pedigree of Sir Josslyn Pennington, Fifth
Baron Muncaster of Muncaster and Ninth Baronet" (1878),
courtesy of our friends at LiveSearch. This has a great deal
of detail concerning the early history of the Penningtons of
Pennington, Muncaster/Mulcastre, etc.
In particular, this provides 14th century evidence as
to the marriage of Sir John de Huddleston of Millom with
Maud, daughter of Sir William de Pennington. More
importantly, the chronology involving the marriage
contract of January 1316/7 makes it certain that Sir William
de Pennington, son of Sir Alan (d. aft 30 Nov 1292) was the
father of Maud. This will enable you (Will) to extend
the Pennington ancestry now shown on your database, and
will also expand that currently on Genealogics for Sir
William de Pennington (#I00485050).
I will send a detailed AT for Maud de Pennington to
the newsgroup, with sources, giving the ancestry traced as
I now have it to Pennington, Longvillers, and Malherbe.
I'm also hopeful that some further evidence concerning the
Pennington holdings in Giffen, co. Ayr (Scotland) will
be forthcoming that will provide firm evidence of some
interesting 12th/13th century ancestry about which we only
have conjectures to date.
Cheers,
John *
=====================================
from Joseph Foster, Pedigree of Sir Josslyn Pennington,
Fifth Baron Muncaster of Muncaster and Ninth Baronet
(London: privately printed at the Chiswick Press, 1878),
pp. 13-14.
http://books.google.com/books?id=7NMKAA ... 1#PPA13,M1
' Marriage of John de Hodleston with Maud de Penington.
Sir Richard de Hudleston. = Sir William de Penington. =
________________I ____________I
I I
John de Hodleston, eldest son and heir. = Maud.
[24] Sir Richard de Hodleston hath granted to Sir William de
Penington the marriage of John, his eldest son and heir, to
Maud, daughter of the said Sir William, for
250 marks ; and the said Sir Richard hath enfeoffed the said
John and Maud in twenty marks' worth of land in the towns of
Breeby, Seton, Botill, Millum, &c. Dated Monday before the
Feast of St. Hilary, 11 Edward II. (i.e., 9 January, 1317).
[Dodsworth MSS., vol. xli., p. 114b.]
1351-2.
Grant by Joan de Penington.
Sir William de Penington, knt. =
_________________________I
I
Joane.
[Z5] To all, &c. Joan de Penyngton, daughter of Sir William
de Penington, knight, greeting. Be it known unto all men
that whereas John de Hudleston, lord of Millum, standeth
bounden unto me by his writing in the sum of l0l. 13s. 4d.
I will and grant that if the said John de Hodilleston, or
Maud his wife, or John, their son and heir, shall find me
in reasonable support for my life, &c. Dated at Millum,
on the morrow of the Epiphany, 25 Edward III. (7 January,
1351-2).
[Ibid., fo. 117b.]
Chapter VIII.
Sir John de Penington.
1323.
Demise to John de Harington, Rector of Aldingham, of the
demesne, lands, and park of tbe manor of Penington.
William>> de Penington. =
___________________________I
I
John de Penington, 2 June, 1323.
[26] This indenture witnesseth that John, Abbot of Furness,
hath demised to farm to Sir John de Haverington, rector of
the church of Aldingham, all the demesne, lands, and
park of the manor of Penington, with the services and
appurtenances, which the said abbot hath in custody, by
reason of the minority of J[ohn] de Penington, son and heir
of William de Penington, to have and to hold the same from
the feast-day of S. Martin-in-winter (11 November), 1323,
up to the full age of said John de Peniton, yielding
therefore, yearly, to the faid abbot and his successors,
40s. sterling, at Pentecost and S. Martin-in-winter, by
equal portions. So, nevertheless, if any thing due by
green wax on the said manor shall come in demand, and the
said Sir John shall be compelled to pay the same,
whatsoever so paid by him, the said abbot shall allow in
the said farm. ....'
* John P. Ravilious
Pennington & Longvillers ancestry of Huddleston of Millom
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
wjhonson
Re: Pennington & Longvillers ancestry of Huddleston of Millo
On Nov 19, 7:35 pm, "John P. Ravilious" <ther...@aol.com> wrote:
John did you say your database can't handle dates like 1318/23 ?
Because we know William was dead by 1323.
Thanks John the new documents help to nail down the chronology much
better.
Will
Hello All,
Following is the promised AT for Maud de Pennington, wife of Sir
John de Huddleston.
Should anyone have additional relevant documentation, comment,
correction or criticism, that would be welcome.
Cheers,
John
======================================
1 Maud de Pennington.
record of contract for her marriage to John de Huddleston,
dated 9 Jan 1316/7:
' [24] Sir Richard de Hodleston hath granted to Sir William de
Penington the marriage of John, his eldest son and heir, to
Maud, daughter of the said Sir William, for
250 marks ; and the said Sir Richard hath enfeoffed the said
John and Maud in twenty marks' worth of land in the towns of
Breeby, Seton, Botill, Millum, &c. Dated Monday before the
Feast of St. Hilary, 11 Edward II. (i.e., 9 January, 1317).
[Dodsworth MSS., vol. xli., p. 114b.] ' [Foster,
Pennington Pedigree, pp. 13-14[1]]
ca 9 Jan 1316 Maud married Sir John de Huddleston.[1]
2 Sir William de Pennington.
died aft 1318.[2]
John did you say your database can't handle dates like 1318/23 ?
Because we know William was dead by 1323.
Thanks John the new documents help to nail down the chronology much
better.
Will
-
suthen
Re: Pennington & Longvillers ancestry of Huddleston of Millo
On Nov 19, 7:35 pm, "John P. Ravilious" <ther...@aol.com> wrote:
<snip>
John,
FWIW Both Ormerod (III:188) and Renaud (116) state that the wife of
Sir Roger Venables of Kinderton (d. abt. 1261) was an Alice Pennington
of Pennington, daughter of Alan de Peninton (Pennington). It would
seem likely she would fit as daughter of Alan #16 if this is correct.
I have not followed up on this with VCH Lancs as yet.
Hap
<snip>
16 Alan de Pennington.
died aft 1210.[10]
of Muncaster, Cumberland, Pennington, Lancashire and Orton,
Westmorland
'Alan son of Benedict', witness to a quitclaim to the abbey
of Furness dated 1154 x 1189 [Foster,
...
read more
John,
FWIW Both Ormerod (III:188) and Renaud (116) state that the wife of
Sir Roger Venables of Kinderton (d. abt. 1261) was an Alice Pennington
of Pennington, daughter of Alan de Peninton (Pennington). It would
seem likely she would fit as daughter of Alan #16 if this is correct.
I have not followed up on this with VCH Lancs as yet.
Hap
-
John P. Ravilious
Re: Pennington & Longvillers ancestry of Huddleston of Millo
Dear Hap,
I quite concur, based on the chronology. I am looking for more
Pennington references, hopefully which can add to what is known of
family members at present and hopefully add additional children,
spouses &c.
With luck, there will be some direct evidence found of the
Venables-Penninton marriage. I will certainly let you know if/when I
should find any.
Cheers,
John
On Nov 20, 12:36 pm, suthen <sut...@redshift.com> wrote:
I quite concur, based on the chronology. I am looking for more
Pennington references, hopefully which can add to what is known of
family members at present and hopefully add additional children,
spouses &c.
With luck, there will be some direct evidence found of the
Venables-Penninton marriage. I will certainly let you know if/when I
should find any.
Cheers,
John
On Nov 20, 12:36 pm, suthen <sut...@redshift.com> wrote:
On Nov 19, 7:35 pm, "John P. Ravilious" <ther...@aol.com> wrote:
snip
16 Alan de Pennington.
died aft 1210.[10]
of Muncaster, Cumberland, Pennington, Lancashire and Orton,
Westmorland
'Alan son of Benedict', witness to a quitclaim to the abbey
of Furness dated 1154 x 1189 [Foster,
...
read more
John,
FWIW Both Ormerod (III:188) and Renaud (116) state that the wife of
Sir Roger Venables of Kinderton (d. abt. 1261) was an Alice Pennington
of Pennington, daughter of Alan de Peninton (Pennington). It would
seem likely she would fit as daughter of Alan #16 if this is correct.
I have not followed up on this with VCH Lancs as yet.
Hap
-
John P. Ravilious
Re: Pennington & Longvillers ancestry of Huddleston of Millo
Monday, 26 November, 2007
Dear Will,
Thanks for your reply of last week. I hope since then
you've had an enjoyable Thanksgiving....
Unfortunately, you are correct as to the limitations of
my database. Luckily, re: the death date for Sir William de
Pennington (I have "after 1318", and you have "by 1323"),
I have not found an IPM or similar record, but did locate
the finding the the Calendar of Close Rolls showing that
he had died by 28 May 1322. The following orders were
dated at Haywra on that date [I give only the pertinent
'Pennington' parts] concerning the assignment of dower to
Eleanor de Burgh, widow of Thomas de Multon:
' To Master John Walewayn, escheator beyond Trent. Order
to deliver to Eleanor, late the wife of Thomas de Multon
of Egremond, tenant in chief, a third of a knight's fee
in Frankton, co., Lincoln,....
....
To Thomas de Burgh, escheator this side Trent. Order to
deliver to the aforesaid Eleanor the following of her
husband's knights' fees and cornages, which the king has
assigned to her in dower: a sixth of a fee in Mulcastre,
co. Cumberland, which part John de Penyngton holds, and
which is of the yearly value of 10l.; a twelfth of a fee
in Ravenglass, in the same county, which part the said
John holds, and which is of the yearly value of 40s.; a
sixth of a fee in Punchonby, in the same county, which
part Alexander de Punchonby holds,......; 18d. of such
rent that John de Penyngton renders yearly for land in
Braystanes, in the same county, of the yearly value
of 12s. ' [CCR 15 Edw II, pp. 454-5, mem. 8]
Given that John de Penyngton [Pennington] had succeeded
to the lands (Mulcastre, Ravenglass) held of Thomas de Multon
prior to 28 May 1322, that date appears to be the terminus
ante quem (for the moment) for the death of Sir Willliam de
Pennington.
Cheers,
John
On Nov 20, 12:39�am, wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
Dear Will,
Thanks for your reply of last week. I hope since then
you've had an enjoyable Thanksgiving....
Unfortunately, you are correct as to the limitations of
my database. Luckily, re: the death date for Sir William de
Pennington (I have "after 1318", and you have "by 1323"),
I have not found an IPM or similar record, but did locate
the finding the the Calendar of Close Rolls showing that
he had died by 28 May 1322. The following orders were
dated at Haywra on that date [I give only the pertinent
'Pennington' parts] concerning the assignment of dower to
Eleanor de Burgh, widow of Thomas de Multon:
' To Master John Walewayn, escheator beyond Trent. Order
to deliver to Eleanor, late the wife of Thomas de Multon
of Egremond, tenant in chief, a third of a knight's fee
in Frankton, co., Lincoln,....
....
To Thomas de Burgh, escheator this side Trent. Order to
deliver to the aforesaid Eleanor the following of her
husband's knights' fees and cornages, which the king has
assigned to her in dower: a sixth of a fee in Mulcastre,
co. Cumberland, which part John de Penyngton holds, and
which is of the yearly value of 10l.; a twelfth of a fee
in Ravenglass, in the same county, which part the said
John holds, and which is of the yearly value of 40s.; a
sixth of a fee in Punchonby, in the same county, which
part Alexander de Punchonby holds,......; 18d. of such
rent that John de Penyngton renders yearly for land in
Braystanes, in the same county, of the yearly value
of 12s. ' [CCR 15 Edw II, pp. 454-5, mem. 8]
Given that John de Penyngton [Pennington] had succeeded
to the lands (Mulcastre, Ravenglass) held of Thomas de Multon
prior to 28 May 1322, that date appears to be the terminus
ante quem (for the moment) for the death of Sir Willliam de
Pennington.
Cheers,
John
On Nov 20, 12:39�am, wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
On Nov 19, 7:35 pm, "John P. Ravilious" <ther...@aol.com> wrote:
Hello All,
� � �Following is the promised AT for Maud de Pennington, wife of Sir
John de Huddleston.
� � �Should anyone have additional relevant documentation, comment,
correction or criticism, that would be welcome.
� � �Cheers,
� � � � � � � � � � � �John
=====================================
1 Maud de Pennington.
record of contract for her marriage to John de Huddleston,
�dated 9 Jan 1316/7:
' [24] Sir Richard de Hodleston hath granted to Sir William de
�Penington the marriage of John, his eldest son and heir, to
�Maud, daughter of the said Sir William, for
�250 marks ; and the said Sir Richard hath enfeoffed the said
�John and Maud in twenty marks' worth of land in the towns of
�Breeby, Seton, Botill, Millum, &c. �Dated Monday before the
�Feast of St. Hilary, 11 Edward II. (i.e., 9 January, 1317).
�[Dodsworth MSS., vol. xli., p. 114b.] ' [Foster,
� Pennington Pedigree, pp. 13-14[1]]
�ca 9 Jan 1316 Maud married Sir John de Huddleston.[1]
2 Sir William de Pennington.
� died �aft 1318.[2]
John did you say your database can't handle dates like 1318/23 ?
Because we know William was dead by 1323.
Thanks John the new documents help to nail down the chronology much
better.
Will- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
-
wjhonson
Re: Pennington & Longvillers ancestry of Huddleston of Millo
On Nov 26, 1:46 pm, "John P. Ravilious" <ther...@aol.com> wrote:
Would it be odd to address John in this way, knowing that he is still
a minor ?
Will
To Thomas de Burgh, escheator this side Trent. Order to
deliver to the aforesaid Eleanor the following of her
husband's knights' fees and cornages, which the king has
assigned to her in dower: a sixth of a fee in Mulcastre,
co. Cumberland, which part John de Penyngton holds, and
which is of the yearly value of 10l.; a twelfth of a fee
in Ravenglass, in the same county, which part the said
John holds, and which is of the yearly value of 40s.; a
sixth of a fee in Punchonby, in the same county, which
part Alexander de Punchonby holds,......; 18d. of such
rent that John de Penyngton renders yearly for land in
Braystanes, in the same county, of the yearly value
of 12s. ' [CCR 15 Edw II, pp. 454-5, mem. 8]
Given that John de Penyngton [Pennington] had succeeded
to the lands (Mulcastre, Ravenglass) held of Thomas de Multon
prior to 28 May 1322, that date appears to be the terminus
ante quem (for the moment) for the death of Sir Willliam de
Pennington.
Would it be odd to address John in this way, knowing that he is still
a minor ?
Will
-
John P. Ravilious
Re: Pennington & Longvillers ancestry of Huddleston of Millo
Dear Will,
John de Pennington (or Penyngton) was being described in the
order, not directly addressed. Whether he was a minor or not, whether
he was in wardship or not, he was still the lord of the manor (or
rather the moiety thereof).
Cheers,
John
On Nov 27, 10:36 pm, wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
John de Pennington (or Penyngton) was being described in the
order, not directly addressed. Whether he was a minor or not, whether
he was in wardship or not, he was still the lord of the manor (or
rather the moiety thereof).
Cheers,
John
On Nov 27, 10:36 pm, wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
On Nov 26, 1:46 pm, "John P. Ravilious" <ther...@aol.com> wrote:
To Thomas de Burgh, escheator this side Trent. Order to
deliver to the aforesaid Eleanor the following of her
husband's knights' fees and cornages, which the king has
assigned to her in dower: a sixth of a fee in Mulcastre,
co. Cumberland, which part John de Penyngton holds, and
which is of the yearly value of 10l.; a twelfth of a fee
in Ravenglass, in the same county, which part the said
John holds, and which is of the yearly value of 40s.; a
sixth of a fee in Punchonby, in the same county, which
part Alexander de Punchonby holds,......; 18d. of such
rent that John de Penyngton renders yearly for land in
Braystanes, in the same county, of the yearly value
of 12s. ' [CCR 15 Edw II, pp. 454-5, mem. 8]
Given that John de Penyngton [Pennington] had succeeded
to the lands (Mulcastre, Ravenglass) held of Thomas de Multon
prior to 28 May 1322, that date appears to be the terminus
ante quem (for the moment) for the death of Sir Willliam de
Pennington.
Would it be odd to address John in this way, knowing that he is still
a minor ?
Will