Fw: The Vanishing Fitz Alan surname

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Leo van de Pas

Fw: The Vanishing Fitz Alan surname

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 19 nov 2007 09:35:14

Dear Douglas,

I know you are only pushing your own wheelbarrow of ideas. You find in
indexes (after 1313) Fitzalan but at the appropriate page _is always
Arundel_ A bad example

Elizabeth Hallam, editor, The Plantagenet Encyclopedia, page 76
FitzAlan, Richard, 9th Earl of Arundel and 9th Earl of Surrey, followed by
his biographical remarks. In those remarks he is referred to as Arundel,
meaning his title not his surname. He lived 1346-1397

Lets go to CP straight to Volume XIV page 37 and onwards covers the Earls of
Arundel of the FitzAlan family. These corrections start far before 1313, I
cannot find a reference that after 1313 the surname was changed to only
Arundel. I know Douglas, you are only having fun, but in case people take
your fun seriously, lets go to CP proper.

Volume I, page 241 Edmund FitzAlan, Earl of Arundel from 1302 to 1326, was
born in 1285
................page 242 Richard FitzAlan, Earl of Arundel called "Copped
Hat" born about 1313
................Page 244 Richard FitzAlan, Earl of Arundel born in 1346
I don't need to go on

I know you are only having fun, as often you do not want to be taken
seriously, I know, your sense of humour.

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia


----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval, soc.history.medieval,
alt.history.british, alt.talk.royalty
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 6:37 PM
Subject: The Vanishing Fitz Alan surname


Dear Newsgroup ~

As most people know by now, the baronial family of Fitz Alan changed
their surname from Fitz Alan to Arundel about 1313, and all branches
of the family thereafter were known as Arundel (or de Arundel). The
name change is discussed at some length in my book, Plantagenet
Ancestry (2004).

Yet, when I consult printed sources, I often find that the index
prepared by a modern editor tells me that there is an item on the Fitz
Alan family on a certain page. However, when I look at the entry
itself and if the entry dates after 1313, the name is always Arundel,
not Fitz Alan. Here is a good example:

The index of Descriptive Catalogue of Ancient Deeds, 5 (1906): 685
states that there is an entry for "Richard Fitz-Alan earl of Arundel"
on page 28. Yet when that page is consulted, it turns out to be a
reference to "John Arundell, knight, son of the earl of Arundell"
dated 1370. The earl is mentioned alright, but there is no Fitz Alan.

For a full transcript of this item and the index page, see the
following weblinks:

http://books.google.com/books?id=biAsAA ... rundell%22

http://books.google.com/books?id=biAsAA ... 1-PA685,M1

I'll be posting other examples of the vanishing Fitz Alan surname as I
find them.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah







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