better marriage than the legitimate one........
You have added an enormous number of descendants for Alexander Sutherland, I
total now for him 63,436 descendants.
To make a file with them all would just be enormous. Therefor I made one
covering the first ten generations and that is big enough, if anyone is
interested let me know.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
----- Origal Message -----
From: "John P. Ravilious" <therav3@aol.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Alexander Sutherland of Dunbeath
Dear Leo,
As Paula Deen would say, "I'm your genealogist, not your
doctor"....
That aside, my apologies for any cardiac events. I understand
that anyone who previously reveled in (or accepted) the Sutherland-
MacDonald connection was quite disheartened by the revelation, but I
understand Neil Thompson and Col. Hansen have been persuaded by the
facts as now discerned by MacEwen.
I can make partial amends, however. Alexander Sutherland did
have a legitimate daughter Mariota, married to William, thane of
Cawdor. I have not traced the descent myself, but have notes that
their son John, heir of Cawdor, married Isabella Rose and had a
daughter Muriel, held heiress of Cawdor. She married Sir John
Campbell, a younger son of the 2nd Earl of Argyll, from which is
descended the Earls of Cawdor, among others.
Not sure if this will help out Prince William or many others,
but hope it is of some use.
Cheers,
John
On Nov 17, 6:58 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
Dear John,
You gave me almost two heart attacks. How could you, turning Marjory into
a
bastard and removing those Isles ancestors.
This does not only affect you, but also Prince William and even Lawrence
of
Arabia, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the Crown princes of The Netherlands
and
Denmark, the crownprincess of Belgium, Doug McDonald and Andrew MacEwen.
I
don't have your line to Miss Chalmers.
I had already Elisabeth Sinclair attached to the correct mother.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "John P. Ravilious" <ther...@aol.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Alexander Sutherland of Dunbeath
Dear Doug (and Leo, et al.),
A number of items as they relate to Alexander Sutherland of
Dunbeath:
1. Andrew MacEwen found additional evidence re: the
identification,
subsequent to the earlier article. In 'Further Observations
on Alexander Sutherland of Dunbeath', TG Vol. 5, No. 2
(Fall 1984), p. 225 he cites the dispensation dated 20 July
1448 for the marriage of
' Alexander de Sutherland, brother german of the Earl of
Sutherland, and Margaret Macloide.'
2. Unfortunately (in terms of MacDonald descents), MacEwen also
determined that Marion/Marjory, the daughter who married
William Sinclair, 3rd Earl/Jarl of Orkney (1st of Caithness),
(d. bef 29 Mar 1482) was the illegitimate daughter of
Alexander Sutherland by Catherine Chalmers. See re: same,
Thompson and Hansen's Medueval Ancestry for Charles II.
3. Whereas the foregoing was of concern to some, it has also
been proved a moot point for descendants of William Sinclair
by his daughter Elizabeth, wife of Sir John Houstoun of that
Ilk [including myself]. Andrew MacEwen has also found that
Elizabeth Sinclair was the daughter of Elizabeth Douglas,
1st wife of William Sinclair, and was 1stly married to Sir
Andrew Leslie [see SP VII:273-275, sub Leslie, Earls of
Rothes]. This removes the Sutherland link for the Houstoun
descendants in its entirety, although replaced with some
interesting Douglas and Murray ancestry.
Cheers,
John
On Nov 17, 5:04 pm, Doug McDonald <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu
wrote:
Leo van de Pas wrote:
This is what I received
You may have already heard this from someone else. With respect to
Alexander Sutherland of
Dunbeath, there was an extensive article back in 1982 in "The
Genealogist", vol. 3, by Andrew
MacEwen, the "resident expert in all things Scottish" [at least per
the
Sage of Salt Lake City!]
which established pretty clearly that Alexander Sutherland of
Dunbeath
was the 2nd son of Robert,
6th Earl of Sutherland. CP 12.1 as cited by Doug McDonald is
apparently wrong in saying that
Alexander S. of Dunbeath was different from Alexander, called Master
of
Sutherland, who died vp.
The confusion apparently arose rose from Alexander being erroneously
called Master of Sutherland
in early pedigrees and thus assumed to be the eldest son of Robert.
So I think your database is right as it is....
I so. Absent actually reading MacEwen's article, I would tend to trust
it!
So that answers that; of course, this doesn't get me any more
ancestors.
Doug McDonald
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