I think you misunderstand. We were talking about Jeffrey Amherst 1717-1797
whether he has Plantagenet ancestors, that he has ancestors who have
Plantagenet descendants does not help Jeffrey having Plantagenet ancestors.
He simply (at the moment) is a distant cousin of people who do descend from
the Plantagenets.
I think he probably is himself also one, but the link has not been
established in my system.
He descends from Maximilian Dalison who married Frances Stanley, and Frances
herself could be..........
Maximilians parents are William Dalison and Elizabeth Oxenden
William's parents are Sir Maximilian Dalison and Mary Spencer
Mary Spencer is a daughter of Sir William Spencer of Yarnton and Margaret
Bowyer
I would think that somewhere there is a link, but I haven't found it yet.
With best wishes
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Le Bateman" <LeBateman@att.net>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: PLANTAGENET: Blame it on Emily Dickinson
Alfred the Great did have a descendant that married the Count of Anjou.
Maud of England married Geoffrey of Anjou. Her grandmother was Margaret
Æþeling Her parents were Henry I and Maud of Scotland. St. Margaret's
father was Edward The Exile. So doesn't this link Alfred to the
Plantagenets. See Faris., David Plantagenet Ancestry Genealogical Publishing
Company Baltimore, Maryland 1st Edition 1996 p.222 I also believe the book
The Conquerors Family has something about his connection to Charlemagne.
Le
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au>
To: <viridmontane@gmail.com>
Cc: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: PLANTAGENET: Blame it on Emily Dickinson
Dear Viridmontane,
You confuse me with your contribution. We are talking about the interest in
the USA into the Plantagenets and the Magna Carta barons and you bring up
this fascinating story about Jeffrey Amherst.
To be honest I have not consciously searched his ancestors but I can find
that he is a descendant of
Heinrich I the Fowler, Emperor
Louis II the Stammerer, King of West-France
Edward I the Elder, King of England
Charles the Bald, Emperor
Alfred the Great, King of England
Charlemagne, Emperor
Can you link him to the Plantagenets?
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: <viridmontane@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: PLANTAGENET: Blame it on Emily Dickinson
On Nov 11, 11:20 am, Bill Arnold <billarnold...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Leo van de Pas <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
LvdP: "Dear Bill, As usual there are several answers to your question. I
am
glad to hear that you think many Americans are aware of Charlemagne.
That so many are oblivious to the Conquest is not so surprising. There
are
words and names which have a ring to them. As an example The Royal
House of Anjou ruled England for several hundreds of years. But who knows
about the Angevins? That doesn't sound good and so Plantagenet replaced
Anjou, and Plantagenet certainly has a ring to it. Even so much that an
industry has developed in the USA selling the Plantagenet Ancestry.
This obsession with Plantagent descent you will not find to an equal
degree
in England. I believe it very much to be an USA thing. In a way it is
rather
sad that all the efforts of William the Conqueror to conquer England are
ignored because a grandson-in-law put a sprig of Broome (Planta genesta)
on
his helmet."
BA: Well, gen-medieval scholars, you can blame all this American love
affair
with the Plantagenets on Emily Dickinson who lived in the good ole USA in
the mid
1800s. In the 1850s-60s, Amherst was still a rural town in which
horseback was
the means of travel as well as horse-drawn "chariots"--buckboards and
coaches.
Thus, Emily Dickinson lived in a *medieval* town which was named for an
English
"Earl," Lord Jeffry Amherst, and gen-medieval scholars should not be
surprised by her
whole reference opus of literary allusions to European *Royalty*! She
wrote nearly
one thousand poems to a secret "Master* as Sir and Sire and Master and
King and
Plantagenet! Why? Her father was a congressman and a founder of the
Republican
party in Washington, DC. So, why would she be so obsessed with English
royalty and
an early obscure English king and fancy herself his "Queen"? And was
*he* the
Plantagenet she called "the Plantagenet"?
Examples:
"If I amazed your kindness--My Love is my only apology...Would you--ask
less for
your *Queen*--Mr Bowles?"
"Master. If it had been God's will that I might breathe where you
breathed--and find
the place--myself--at night...if I wish with a might I cannot
repress--that mine were
the Queen's place--the love of the Plantagenet
is my only apology."
[author: Emily Dickinson]
Was not the first of the Plantagenet Kings married to Eleanor of
Aquitaine who was the
first Queen of the troubadours? is that who she meant? And the rest, as
they say, is history?
Was she not the "adulterous" Queen who married the English King and
brought to England
the tradition of "troubadour" poetry and Courtly Love, which had reigned
under her grandfather,
Duke William IX, "The Troubadour"? Of course, Emily Dickinson poems were
read and studied
in every *English* class for a century now, and her fame spread like a
comet in the night sky.
So blame the fame of the Plantagenets in America on Emily Dickinson.
Bill
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Lord Jeffrey Amherst, after whom Amherst, Massachusetts (which
contains Amherst College as well as the University of Massachusetts)
was named, was a British military commander in the French and Indian
War. He was also the first Governor-General of British North America.
He was well-respected in his lifetime, and was raised to the peerage
as 1st Baron Amherst. Recently though he has come under attack for his
advocacy of biological warfare (the spreading of smallpox) among the
Indians. After the French and Indian War concluded, and Britain took
over formerly French Canada, many Indian tribes who'd been French
allies remained hostile. They mounted an uprising, known as the
Conspiracy of Pontiac. Lord Jeffrey approved a plan initiated by one
of his subordinates to give as gifts to the Indians smallpox-infected
blankets in the hope of spreading that disease among the tribes.
Evidently unknown to Lord Jeffrey a military commander had already
tried that. (It's unknown whether or not it was successful, or whether
it was repeated). Smallpox was extremely lethal to the American
Indians who had no immunity to it. The Indian uprising was eventually
suppressed militarily.
Lord Jeffrey was succeeded in his title by his nephew, who became the
1st 'Earl Amherst'. The title was hereditary in his family until it
became extinct in 1993. Sevenoaks, England was the family seat, where
Lord Jeffrey was born and where he died.
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