Terrible British Food

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jl

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av jl » 12 nov 2007 11:45:03

In article <1194813372.344349.242940@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
Feck all sassanaigh <seamusot@gmail.com> wrote:


Go easy on the home cocking - people might not fully understand that
you are preparing Coq au Vin..

Very perceptive of you. That's what we had that day. But good as it was,
my cooking does not deserve the title Coq au Vin, when I'm finished it's
more like Cock with Booze - hence ...

Jochen

--

------------------------------------
Limavady and the Roe Valley
http://www.jochenlueg.freeuk.com

jl

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av jl » 12 nov 2007 11:46:02

In article <dPVZi.38823$9Y3.21552@newsfe1-win.ntli.net>,
a.spencer3 <a.spencer3@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:9cKZi.492$Ig4.2379@eagle.america.net...



Frying a steak must be one of the most appalling examples of cuisine.

I agree. It's ok when you are in a hurry, but I prefer to roast the stuff
myself.

Jochen

--

------------------------------------
Limavady and the Roe Valley
http://www.jochenlueg.freeuk.com

a.spencer3

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av a.spencer3 » 12 nov 2007 11:51:25

"jl" <jl@spamnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:4f408b5fc4jl@spamnet.co.uk...
In article <dPVZi.38823$9Y3.21552@newsfe1-win.ntli.net>,
a.spencer3 <a.spencer3@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:9cKZi.492$Ig4.2379@eagle.america.net...



Frying a steak must be one of the most appalling examples of cuisine.

I agree. It's ok when you are in a hurry, but I prefer to roast the stuff
myself.


Nope.
Roast joints, fine.
But good steaks - grilled only, for me. And quite rare at that.

Surreyman

Séimí mac Liam

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Séimí mac Liam » 12 nov 2007 12:44:30

"Conway Caine" <ccaine@worldnet.att.net> wrote in news:qOEZi.14897
$if6.5585@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

"Séimí mac Liam" <gwyddon@comcast.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99E25E2D2710Sim@216.196.97.136...
The Highlander <micheil@shaw.ca> wrote in
news:53b6j3pq2ah2tpjl0atkutgu1qmnu5focm@4ax.com:

You can safely ignore Hogg. He's all agenda and wannabe ego.


Boys and girls, here is an excellent example of irony.

JAMES, WHY IS TURLOUGH GETTING MY SPUDS???????????




The govenment runs the post office?

--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 12 nov 2007 16:54:56

D'accord.

I'm going to have one today, with champagne, of course.

DSH

"a.spencer3" <a.spencer3@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:NeWZi.14627$%j2.4447@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...

Nope.
Roast joints, fine.
But good steaks - grilled only, for me. And quite rare at that.

Surreyman

a.spencer3

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av a.spencer3 » 12 nov 2007 16:58:58

"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:yH_Zi.521$Ig4.2554@eagle.america.net...
D'accord.

I'm going to have one today, with champagne, of course.

DSH

"a.spencer3" <a.spencer3@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:NeWZi.14627$%j2.4447@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...

Nope.
Roast joints, fine.
But good steaks - grilled only, for me. And quite rare at that.

Surreyman


A fizzy white plonk with good rare steak?

Oh dear.

Surreyman

William Black

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av William Black » 13 nov 2007 11:18:01

"a.spencer3" <a.spencer3@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:6L_Zi.3881$1x.2977@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:yH_Zi.521$Ig4.2554@eagle.america.net...
D'accord.

I'm going to have one today, with champagne, of course.

DSH

"a.spencer3" <a.spencer3@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:NeWZi.14627$%j2.4447@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...

Nope.
Roast joints, fine.
But good steaks - grilled only, for me. And quite rare at that.

Surreyman


A fizzy white plonk with good rare steak?
Oh dear.


We've had this conversation before with dear old David.

He will soon come back at you with his 'Only vintage champagne is fit to
drink, I drink it all the time' routine.


--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

John Briggs

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av John Briggs » 13 nov 2007 14:56:42

a.spencer3 wrote:
"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:yH_Zi.521$Ig4.2554@eagle.america.net...
D'accord.

I'm going to have one today, with champagne, of course.

DSH

"a.spencer3" <a.spencer3@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:NeWZi.14627$%j2.4447@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...

Nope.
Roast joints, fine.
But good steaks - grilled only, for me. And quite rare at that.

Surreyman


A fizzy white plonk with good rare steak?
Oh dear.

I think I'd go for a sparkling Shiraz :-)
--
John Briggs

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 14 nov 2007 16:10:04

jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:
On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French, Turkish, Greek,
Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.

Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like to
re-define British food?

My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much better
selection of medium level places in the States versus the British
Isles.

I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.

Deirdre

Hal Ó Mearadhaigh.

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Hal Ó Mearadhaigh. » 14 nov 2007 20:54:49

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French, Turkish,
Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.

Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like to
re-define British food?

My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much better
selection of medium level places in the States versus the British
Isles.

I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.

It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast Food outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA. The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper" restaurants which
supply good food from the medium to the top levels of gourmet standards.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with British, (or Irish) foods, apart from
the appallingly bad standards of cooking in certain areas. America, sadly,
seems to be thrashing about in the throes of the Super Fast Food outlet were
the criteria is quantity rather than quality, hence the obese problem! I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the States, but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily. A similar
criteria does exist in the UK as well of course, but there is no doubt that
one can find excellent food well cooked in even small establishments.

--
Hal Ó Mearadhaigh.

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 14 nov 2007 22:44:56

"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French, Turkish,
Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.

Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like to
re-define British food?

My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much better
selection of medium level places in the States versus the British
Isles.

I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.

It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast Food outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.

Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper" restaurants which
supply good food from the medium to the top levels of gourmet standards.

I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.

I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the States, but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.

I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Bear in mind, I live in a rather far-flung suburb (far enough
out that it's laughable to consider it a bedroom community
of Chicago)...things are better and the choices increase as
one gets closer to the city. You don't have to "know where
to look", you simply have to be willing to step into a place
with a name you don't recognise as a brand.

Deirdre

Jack Linthicum

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Jack Linthicum » 14 nov 2007 22:57:48

On Nov 14, 4:44 pm, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
<finch.enter...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stew...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French, Turkish,
Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.

Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like to
re-define British food?

My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much better
selection of medium level places in the States versus the British
Isles.

I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.

It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast Food outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.

Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper" restaurants which
supply good food from the medium to the top levels of gourmet standards.

I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.

I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the States, but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.

I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Bear in mind, I live in a rather far-flung suburb (far enough
out that it's laughable to consider it a bedroom community
of Chicago)...things are better and the choices increase as
one gets closer to the city. You don't have to "know where
to look", you simply have to be willing to step into a place
with a name you don't recognise as a brand.

Deirdre

I live in a much smaller area, one end of a 75-mile long county with
500,000 population. I can think of a dozen restaurants that fill the
$30 bill and maybe ten that do the $100. The big meals in Central
Florida are breakfast and lunch. Many places don't bother to stay open
for dinner. Most of this is due to the serving of alcohol in the form
of drinks, wine and beer. Most of the people who use fast food
restaurants are literally looking for quick meal, workers with a
restricted lunch hour.

One of the novel combinations I have seen in the Richmond Virginia
area is the supermarket with an extensive food service. Ukrops in
particular. Their food is freshly made, usually while you wait, and is
a good as you can get within the idea of a lunch and not a banquet.

Nebulous

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Nebulous » 14 nov 2007 23:17:22

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...

"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French, Turkish,
Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.

Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like to
re-define British food?

My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much better
selection of medium level places in the States versus the British
Isles.

I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.

It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast Food
outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.

Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper" restaurants which
supply good food from the medium to the top levels of gourmet standards.

I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.

In Scotland pubs have really developed the food side of their business since
the smoking ban came in and they are where you get the best value - many of
them have separate eating areas away from the bar so from the inside you are
hard put to tell the difference.
I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the States,
but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.

I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Well I don't have much experience of the US of A (one trip to Florida) but
that strikes me as extraordinarily good. A fair bit of it may be to do with
the parlous state of the dollar - but as most of the SCS folks know I travel
to Inverness regularly in the course of my work. My company limits my
expenses claim to £9.50 for an evening meal. ( just under $20 at current
rates) I find it very difficult to get a decent main course and a cup of
coffee for that. (They won't pay for alcohol at all so I have to buy my own
anyway.)

As a family of 4 (2 adults and 2 ten-year olds) it is pretty much impossible
to get anything other than fast food for less than £30 ($60) in most places
again excluding starters, desserts and even coffee.

Neb

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 15 nov 2007 06:42:20

Jack Linthicum wrote:
On Nov 14, 4:44 pm, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
finch.enter...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Bear in mind, I live in a rather far-flung suburb (far enough
out that it's laughable to consider it a bedroom community
of Chicago)...things are better and the choices increase as
one gets closer to the city. You don't have to "know where
to look", you simply have to be willing to step into a place
with a name you don't recognise as a brand.


I live in a much smaller area, one end of a 75-mile long county with
500,000 population. I can think of a dozen restaurants that fill the
$30 bill and maybe ten that do the $100. The big meals in Central
Florida are breakfast and lunch. Many places don't bother to stay open
for dinner.

We're starting to see more and more of those
around here too...five come to mind readily
enough, all located either in downtown shopping
areas (of the villages, not the city) or near the
vicinity of office complexes...places where lunch
is likely to be lively, but dinner? Well, how can
you get there with the pavements already rolled
up and put away for the evening?

Most of the people who use fast food
restaurants are literally looking for quick meal, workers with a
restricted lunch hour.

The thing I like least about fast food places is they
make every locale look the same...a street in Austin
looks the same as one in Joplin as in Ft. Myers as in
Lodi as in Columbus...a McDonald's followed by a KFC,
a Taco Bell, a Long John Silvers with a Burger King
and a Wendy's right across the street. At least in
this area we have White Castles and Steak n' Shakes
to break up the repetitive signage, although being
downwind of a White Castle is not for the sensitive
of nose or weak of stomach...the stench of onions
puts the Maxwell Street market of two decades ago
to shame.

One of the novel combinations I have seen in the Richmond Virginia
area is the supermarket with an extensive food service. Ukrops in
particular. Their food is freshly made, usually while you wait, and is
a good as you can get within the idea of a lunch and not a banquet.

Whole Foods seems to have something similar...but
then again, there's usually so many samples out you
can nosh your way through just buying the groceries.

Deirdre

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 15 nov 2007 07:14:10

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:473BDC2C.5FAD58DD@sbcglobal.net...

The big meals in Central Florida are breakfast and lunch.
Many places don't bother to stay open for dinner. [sop]

We're starting to see more and more of those
around here too...five come to mind readily
enough, all located either in downtown shopping
areas (of the villages, not the city) or near the
vicinity of office complexes...places where lunch
is likely to be lively, but dinner? Well, how can
you get there with the pavements already rolled
up and put away for the evening?

Yes, true on O'ahu as well -- exclude Waikiki and the resorts.

The other phenomenon is that many folks who are older, eat out regularly and
have lots of discretionary income to spend on themselves [no kids in
university, for example, having they minds filled with warm mush by some
"Liberal" historian or sociologist <g>] PREFER to have their BIG meal at
MID-DAY -- and they want it to be a superb one -- tailored to their
preferences.

They don't eat dinner, just have a snack or "supper".

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Deus Vult

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 15 nov 2007 07:20:26

Nebulous wrote:
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...


I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Well I don't have much experience of the US of A (one trip to Florida) but
that strikes me as extraordinarily good. A fair bit of it may be to do with
the parlous state of the dollar - but as most of the SCS folks know I travel
to Inverness regularly in the course of my work. My company limits my
expenses claim to £9.50 for an evening meal.

My per diem depends on the city...it seems to me it usually
ranges between $30 and $50 though. To be utterly truthful,
I don't really keep track, I simply spend what I spend, turn
in the receipts and get back what I get back...anything not
covered I pay for myself. It usually works out in the long
run.

( just under $20 at current
rates) I find it very difficult to get a decent main course and a cup of
coffee for that.

I noticed something similar when I was last in Edinburgh...
and the restaurants close _early_. I arrived at 9 PM and
had one hell of a time finding a place to eat...ended up at
The Doric which struck me as overpriced. Additionally,
given that I'd just hauled my bags up all of Waverly's
steps, I was more than a bit peeved to discover I had to
climb even more to get to my meal. <shrug> In retro-
spect the food was probably okay, but I was in a pissy
mood...UK trains and their wretched unscheduled stops
irk me.

(They won't pay for alcohol at all so I have to buy my own
anyway.)

I've never worked anywhere that _did_ reimburse me
for alcohol, although on the per diem they don't really
check if you order wine with your meal. I don't drink
much when I'm on business travel anyway, so it's not
that big of a deal.

As a family of 4 (2 adults and 2 ten-year olds) it is pretty much impossible
to get anything other than fast food for less than £30 ($60) in most places
again excluding starters, desserts and even coffee.

Ouch. We can usually manage a family meal (four
adults in this case as everyone's grown so there's
no more ordering off the children's menu) for...
oh, I'd guess somewhere in the $45-$60 range de-
pending on the meal...that doesn't include the tip,
of course, but unlimited coffee is a given at any
meal I sit down to (even if it's at 10PM).

Deirdre

allan connochie

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av allan connochie » 15 nov 2007 07:38:07

"Nebulous" <jwest@pigtail.com> wrote in message
news:gfqdnecvVJ1j7qbanZ2dnUVZ8q2dnZ2d@pipex.net...
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...


"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French, Turkish,
Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.

Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like to
re-define British food?

My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much better
selection of medium level places in the States versus the British
Isles.

I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.

It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast Food
outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.

Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper" restaurants which
supply good food from the medium to the top levels of gourmet standards.

I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.

In Scotland pubs have really developed the food side of their business
since the smoking ban came in and they are where you get the best value -
many of them have separate eating areas away from the bar so from the
inside you are hard put to tell the difference.

I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the States,
but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.

I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Well I don't have much experience of the US of A (one trip to Florida) but
that strikes me as extraordinarily good. A fair bit of it may be to do
with the parlous state of the dollar - but as most of the SCS folks know I
travel to Inverness regularly in the course of my work. My company limits
my expenses claim to £9.50 for an evening meal. ( just under $20 at
current rates) I find it very difficult to get a decent main course and a
cup of coffee for that. (They won't pay for alcohol at all so I have to
buy my own anyway.)

I don't think in the UK you can segregate pubs and restaurants like Deirdrie
does. You get pubs where food is served in the bar or pub food is served
elsewhere of course, and you get places which are specifically just
restaurants - but many places are both pub and and proper restaurant
depending on what part of the establishment you go into. Obviously living
in Kelso then the 5 mile test wouldn't work. There is not another town
within 5 miles and we're just a wee place. However if we said 30 minutes or
so drive then that'd take in all the main towns in Roxburghshire,
Selkirkshire, Berwickshire and northern Northumberland including Berwick
itself. If alcohol isn't involved then driving isn't a problem. I'd reckon
we'd be able to choose from many dozens of establishments. We used to have a
group called "the Rabbit Kickers" and went out the first Thursday of every
month for a meal. We did it for years and never went back to the same place.
Most dining experiences were good. Of course an hours drive up into the
Edinburgh area and then the choice is far greater. It does seem to be more
expensive in the UK but if middle of the road pricing is being talked about
then we have to compare like with like! So middle of the road in the UK may
be more than middle of the road in the US but they are both still middle of
the road.


cheers

Allan

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 15 nov 2007 08:29:46

Recte:

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:473BDC2C.5FAD58DD@sbcglobal.net...

The big meals in Central Florida are breakfast and lunch.
Many places don't bother to stay open for dinner. [sop]

We're starting to see more and more of those
around here too...five come to mind readily
enough, all located either in downtown shopping
areas (of the villages, not the city) or near the
vicinity of office complexes...places where lunch
is likely to be lively, but dinner? Well, how can
you get there with the pavements already rolled
up and put away for the evening?

Yes, true on O'ahu as well -- exclude Waikiki and the resorts.

The other phenomenon is that many folks who are older, eat out regularly and
have lots of discretionary income to spend on themselves [no kids in
university, for example, having their minds filled with warm mush by some
"Liberal" historian or sociologist <g>] PREFER to have their BIG meal at
MID-DAY -- and they want it to be a superb one -- tailored to their
preferences.

They don't eat dinner, just have a snack or "supper".

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Deus Vult

a.spencer3

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av a.spencer3 » 15 nov 2007 11:57:52

"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:mtR_i.587$Ig4.2808@eagle.america.net...
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:473BDC2C.5FAD58DD@sbcglobal.net...

The big meals in Central Florida are breakfast and lunch.
Many places don't bother to stay open for dinner. [sop]

We're starting to see more and more of those
around here too...five come to mind readily
enough, all located either in downtown shopping
areas (of the villages, not the city) or near the
vicinity of office complexes...places where lunch
is likely to be lively, but dinner? Well, how can
you get there with the pavements already rolled
up and put away for the evening?

Yes, true on O'ahu as well -- exclude Waikiki and the resorts.

The other phenomenon is that many folks who are older, eat out regularly
and
have lots of discretionary income to spend on themselves [no kids in
university, for example, having they minds filled with warm mush by some
"Liberal" historian or sociologist <g>] PREFER to have their BIG meal at
MID-DAY -- and they want it to be a superb one -- tailored to their
preferences.

They don't eat dinner, just have a snack or "supper".

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Deus Vult


A sign of old age, I understand.


Surreyman

a.spencer3

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av a.spencer3 » 15 nov 2007 12:03:06

"allan connochie" <conncohies@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:jPR_i.37460$uH.16139@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
"Nebulous" <jwest@pigtail.com> wrote in message
news:gfqdnecvVJ1j7qbanZ2dnUVZ8q2dnZ2d@pipex.net...

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...


"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French, Turkish,
Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.

Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like to
re-define British food?

My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much
better
selection of medium level places in the States versus the British
Isles.

I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.

It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast Food
outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.

Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper" restaurants
which
supply good food from the medium to the top levels of gourmet
standards.

I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.

In Scotland pubs have really developed the food side of their business
since the smoking ban came in and they are where you get the best
value -
many of them have separate eating areas away from the bar so from the
inside you are hard put to tell the difference.

I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the States,
but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.

I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Well I don't have much experience of the US of A (one trip to Florida)
but
that strikes me as extraordinarily good. A fair bit of it may be to do
with the parlous state of the dollar - but as most of the SCS folks know
I
travel to Inverness regularly in the course of my work. My company
limits
my expenses claim to £9.50 for an evening meal. ( just under $20 at
current rates) I find it very difficult to get a decent main course and
a
cup of coffee for that. (They won't pay for alcohol at all so I have to
buy my own anyway.)

I don't think in the UK you can segregate pubs and restaurants like
Deirdrie
does. You get pubs where food is served in the bar or pub food is served
elsewhere of course, and you get places which are specifically just
restaurants - but many places are both pub and and proper restaurant
depending on what part of the establishment you go into. Obviously living
in Kelso then the 5 mile test wouldn't work. There is not another town
within 5 miles and we're just a wee place. However if we said 30 minutes
or
so drive then that'd take in all the main towns in Roxburghshire,
Selkirkshire, Berwickshire and northern Northumberland including Berwick
itself. If alcohol isn't involved then driving isn't a problem. I'd reckon
we'd be able to choose from many dozens of establishments. We used to have
a
group called "the Rabbit Kickers" and went out the first Thursday of every
month for a meal. We did it for years and never went back to the same
place.
Most dining experiences were good. Of course an hours drive up into the
Edinburgh area and then the choice is far greater. It does seem to be more
expensive in the UK but if middle of the road pricing is being talked
about
then we have to compare like with like! So middle of the road in the UK
may
be more than middle of the road in the US but they are both still middle
of
the road.



We live in a Surrey village of 5,000.
Within the village we have 4 pubs with food, ranging from pub grub to
expensive international ... 2 Indian ... 2 Chinese ... one fish & chips ...
2 'light bites'.
Within walking distance to the town (20 minutes) we have just about every
permutation and international cuisine normally available in the UK -
including a Mongolian(?!) that I haven't yet tried!

Surreyman

Westprog

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Westprog » 15 nov 2007 13:13:53

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
....
I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)


Though I think there's no shortage of such places in the UK, they tend to
cost more than their American equivalents.


--



J/

SOTW: "Good Evening Mr. Waldheim " - Lou Reed

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 15 nov 2007 14:18:34

Mongolian Barbeque...

Delicious!

Our club has it once a week.

DSH

"a.spencer3" <a.spencer3@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:KHV_i.4638$1x.806@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...

We live in a Surrey village of 5,000.
Within the village we have 4 pubs with food, ranging from pub grub to
expensive international ... 2 Indian ... 2 Chinese ... one fish & chips
...
2 'light bites'.
Within walking distance to the town (20 minutes) we have just about every
permutation and international cuisine normally available in the UK -
including a Mongolian(?!) that I haven't yet tried!

Surreyman

James Hogg

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av James Hogg » 15 nov 2007 15:55:12

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 13:18:34 -0000, "D. Spencer Hines"
<panther@excelsior.com> typed with one hand:

Mongolian Barbeque [sic]...

Delicious!

Our club has it once a week.


So your club has it once a week?

Do you eat in or do you have it away?

What exactly is this club? The Mongolian bit hints at
some interracial activity. I can just picture it...

James

Cory Bhreckan

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Cory Bhreckan » 15 nov 2007 16:25:22

James Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 13:18:34 -0000, "D. Spencer Hines"
panther@excelsior.com> typed with one hand:

Mongolian Barbeque [sic]...

Delicious!

Our club has it once a week.


So your club has it once a week?

Do you eat in or do you have it away?

What exactly is this club? The Mongolian bit hints at
some interracial activity. I can just picture it...

James

Wicked wicked.

--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 15 nov 2007 17:55:03

Westprog wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
...
I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Though I think there's no shortage of such places in the UK, they tend to
cost more than their American equivalents.

I think that's what the original poster was getting at...your
middle-of-the-road eateries don't have middle-of-the-road
pricing which makes the cheaper fast food more attractive,
especially for families with children...which is the last thing
you should be feeding growing children, too much fat, too
much starch, too much sugar, too few veggies...

I know some of the fast food places advertise that they
have "healthy" meals for kids in the form of chicken, apples
and milk, so why is it whenever I see a sprog eating their
food it's always burgers, fries and soda? Do the parents
lack sense or a spine?

Deirdre

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 15 nov 2007 20:53:28

Nonsense...

Anyone who doesn't understand about British food has no business doing
British Genealogy, Culture or History.

DSH

<taf@clearwire.net> wrote in message
news:4d76ef26-cb22-4ed7-bdf7-1e52a85dd241@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

On Nov 15, 8:55 am, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
finch.enter...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Westprog wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
...
I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Though I think there's no shortage of such places in the UK, they tend
to cost more than their American equivalents.

I think that's what the original poster was getting at...

Oh, please. The original poster was doing nothing more than saying
something provocative to see how long the rest of you would babble on
about it across five newsgroups. It is pointless to look for a deeper
meaning.

taf

John Briggs

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av John Briggs » 15 nov 2007 21:03:19

D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Nonsense...

Anyone who doesn't understand about British food has no business doing
British Genealogy, Culture or History.

What are the qualifications for posting to
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.interracial? Living in Hawaii?
--
John Briggs

Bryn

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Bryn » 15 nov 2007 21:51:11

Needing no introduction "an" Usenet stalwart wrote:
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Nonsense...

Anyone who doesn't understand about British food has no business doing
British Genealogy, Culture or History.

What are the qualifications for posting to
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.interracial? Living in Hawaii?

The Spam centre of the Universe...

--
Bryn

Coldest days--
dried salmon,
gaunt pilgrim.

Bashõ

Cory Bhreckan

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Cory Bhreckan » 15 nov 2007 22:01:00

Bryn wrote:
Needing no introduction "an" Usenet stalwart wrote:
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Nonsense...

Anyone who doesn't understand about British food has no business doing
British Genealogy, Culture or History.

What are the qualifications for posting to
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.interracial? Living in Hawaii?

The Spam centre of the Universe...


Spam is very popular in Hawaii.

--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

Cory Bhreckan

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Cory Bhreckan » 15 nov 2007 23:09:10

Jane Margaret Laight wrote:
On Nov 15, 4:01 pm, Cory Bhreckan <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net
wrote:
Bryn wrote:
Needing no introduction "an" Usenet stalwart wrote:
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Nonsense...
Anyone who doesn't understand about British food has no business doing
British Genealogy, Culture or History.
What are the qualifications for posting to
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.interracial? Living in Hawaii?
The Spam centre of the Universe...
Spam is very popular in Hawaii.

the only time I was in Hawaii my hosts pressed upon me a local
delicacy called musubi which is, essentially, a slab of fried spam on
a block of white rice bound together by seaweed. Somewhere in the
general neighborhood of tastiness as the fried Mars bar.

They didn't have those when I was living there. The standard fare at the
local Dairy Queen in Lihue was saimin and wontons.

JML
who does like grits

--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall



--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

Bryn

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Bryn » 15 nov 2007 23:12:38

Needing no introduction "an" Usenet stalwart wrote:
On Nov 15, 4:01 pm, Cory Bhreckan <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net
wrote:
Bryn wrote:
Needing no introduction "an" Usenet stalwart wrote:
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Nonsense...

Anyone who doesn't understand about British food has no business doing
British Genealogy, Culture or History.

What are the qualifications for posting to
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.interracial? Living in Hawaii?

The Spam centre of the Universe...

Spam is very popular in Hawaii.

the only time I was in Hawaii my hosts pressed upon me a local
delicacy called musubi which is, essentially, a slab of fried spam on
a block of white rice bound together by seaweed. Somewhere in the
general neighborhood of tastiness as the fried Mars bar.


You have to laugh!

--
Bryn

That's OK, I Wasn't Using My Civil Liberties Anyway.

To email remove GREMILNS

Renia

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Renia » 15 nov 2007 23:58:02

D. Spencer Hines wrote:

Nonsense...

Anyone who doesn't understand about British food has no business doing
British Genealogy, Culture or History.

Quite. And what, precisely, do you know of British food? You think we
all sit at home eating faggots.

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 16 nov 2007 00:11:42

Some Brits do.

We all know about The English Disease.

DSH

"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:fhiisa$a2d$2@mouse.otenet.gr...

D. Spencer Hines wrote:

Nonsense...

Anyone who doesn't understand about British food has no business doing
British Genealogy, Culture or History.

Quite. And what, precisely, do you know of British food? You think we all
sit at home eating faggots.

Cory Bhreckan

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Cory Bhreckan » 16 nov 2007 00:11:43

Renia wrote:
D. Spencer Hines wrote:

Nonsense...

Anyone who doesn't understand about British food has no business doing
British Genealogy, Culture or History.

Quite. And what, precisely, do you know of British food? You think we
all sit at home eating faggots.

Hines sits at home and browses porn on usenet,
alt.binary.pictures.erotica.interracial wasn't it?

--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 16 nov 2007 00:18:22

There are various kinds of MUSUBI.

The Japanese word means RICE BALL, in a loose, generic translation into
English -- a rice ball made by shaping and compressing with the hand.

It can have any sort of filling/wrap ---- salmon, tuna, various types of
seaweed, salty plums.

Musubi are often eaten for a quick lunch.

Spam musubi, with the wrap, is my least favorite variety.

But consider World War II when meat for civilians was in short supply.

The Armed Forces had plenty of Spam and used it as, errrrr "barter" for all
sorts of goodies that sometimes led to genealogical propagation.

Spam was a delight to many Hawaiians and to BRITS too -- who were often
meatless.

As canned meat it requires no refrigeration and can be dressed up with all
sorts of sauces and spreads or put in the soup or stew.

There is a nostalgia for Spam in Hawaii that continues to this day.

Did you try SUSHI or SASHIMI?

Far Better Food...

Grits are good too...

Add a little molasses or jam for a taste treat.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Me ke aloha pumehana

"Jane Margaret Laight" <jml27515@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ffa716e8-7962-4e78-aede-abce9c09272d@l22g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

the only time I was in Hawaii my hosts pressed upon me a local
delicacy called musubi which is, essentially, a slab of fried spam on
a block of white rice bound together by seaweed. Somewhere in the
general neighborhood of tastiness as the fried Mars bar.

JML
who does like grits

Peter Jason

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Peter Jason » 16 nov 2007 00:25:15

"Cory Bhreckan"
<coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in
message news:Pm4%i.11187$VB6.5374@trnddc06...
Renia wrote:
D. Spencer Hines wrote:

Nonsense...

Anyone who doesn't understand about
British food has no business doing
British Genealogy, Culture or History.

Quite. And what, precisely, do you know of
British food? You think we all sit at home
eating faggots.

Hines sits at home and browses porn on
usenet,
alt.binary.pictures.erotica.interracial
wasn't it?


I'm *still* gobsmacked how anyone could
sink this low. Have you seen the dogs on
alt.binary.pictures.erotica.interracial ?

Renia

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Renia » 16 nov 2007 00:37:22

D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Some Brits do.

How do you know? Cite please.

We all know about The English Disease.

What disease would that be?


DSH

"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:fhiisa$a2d$2@mouse.otenet.gr...


D. Spencer Hines wrote:


Nonsense...

Anyone who doesn't understand about British food has no business doing
British Genealogy, Culture or History.

Quite. And what, precisely, do you know of British food? You think we all
sit at home eating faggots.



Cory Bhreckan

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Cory Bhreckan » 16 nov 2007 00:56:32

Peter Jason wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan"
coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in
message news:Pm4%i.11187$VB6.5374@trnddc06...
Renia wrote:
D. Spencer Hines wrote:

Nonsense...

Anyone who doesn't understand about
British food has no business doing
British Genealogy, Culture or History.
Quite. And what, precisely, do you know of
British food? You think we all sit at home
eating faggots.
Hines sits at home and browses porn on
usenet,
alt.binary.pictures.erotica.interracial
wasn't it?


I'm *still* gobsmacked how anyone could
sink this low. Have you seen the dogs on
alt.binary.pictures.erotica.interracial ?

I'll take your word for it.

--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

Conway Caine

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Conway Caine » 16 nov 2007 17:44:51

"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:gs2%i.7033$WN2.1023@trnddc08...
Bryn wrote:
Needing no introduction "an" Usenet stalwart wrote:
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Nonsense...

Anyone who doesn't understand about British food has no business doing
British Genealogy, Culture or History.

What are the qualifications for posting to
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.interracial? Living in Hawaii?

The Spam centre of the Universe...


Spam is very popular in Hawaii.

Ah yes, the traditional Hawaiian dish,Grits N' Spam.
(They do eat an awful lot of Spam there)

Robert Peffers

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Robert Peffers » 16 nov 2007 22:25:25

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...

"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French, Turkish,
Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.

Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like to
re-define British food?

My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much better
selection of medium level places in the States versus the British
Isles.

I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.

It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast Food
outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.

Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper" restaurants which
supply good food from the medium to the top levels of gourmet standards.

I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.
Not quite true though.

In the village, (Kelty), we have, "The No. 1 Inn", which has, "The Clippie's
Fare", attached. This is not your, "Bar Meals", kind of establishment and is
self-contained, though part of the same licensed premises. Note that the
Clippie's Fare is so named for the once nearby Bus Garage made famous by the
folk song, "The Kelty Clippie".
Hear it here - http://www.thetraditionbearers.com/htmfiles/songs.htm

Mind you there is a difference between a Public House and an Inn.
I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the States,
but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.

I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Bear in mind, I live in a rather far-flung suburb (far enough
out that it's laughable to consider it a bedroom community
of Chicago)...things are better and the choices increase as
one gets closer to the city. You don't have to "know where
to look", you simply have to be willing to step into a place
with a name you don't recognise as a brand.

Deirdre
I think you will find that Scotland has many hotels and Inns in country

areas with much better than average kitchens.
--
Auld Bob Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Robert Peffers » 16 nov 2007 22:39:10

"a.spencer3" <a.spencer3@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:KHV_i.4638$1x.806@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
"allan connochie" <conncohies@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:jPR_i.37460$uH.16139@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...

"Nebulous" <jwest@pigtail.com> wrote in message
news:gfqdnecvVJ1j7qbanZ2dnUVZ8q2dnZ2d@pipex.net...

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message
news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...


"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French, Turkish,
Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.

Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like
to
re-define British food?

My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much
better
selection of medium level places in the States versus the British
Isles.

I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.

It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast Food
outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.

Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper" restaurants
which
supply good food from the medium to the top levels of gourmet
standards.

I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.

In Scotland pubs have really developed the food side of their business
since the smoking ban came in and they are where you get the best
value -
many of them have separate eating areas away from the bar so from the
inside you are hard put to tell the difference.

I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the
States,
but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.

I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Well I don't have much experience of the US of A (one trip to Florida)
but
that strikes me as extraordinarily good. A fair bit of it may be to do
with the parlous state of the dollar - but as most of the SCS folks
know
I
travel to Inverness regularly in the course of my work. My company
limits
my expenses claim to £9.50 for an evening meal. ( just under $20 at
current rates) I find it very difficult to get a decent main course and
a
cup of coffee for that. (They won't pay for alcohol at all so I have to
buy my own anyway.)

I don't think in the UK you can segregate pubs and restaurants like
Deirdrie
does. You get pubs where food is served in the bar or pub food is served
elsewhere of course, and you get places which are specifically just
restaurants - but many places are both pub and and proper restaurant
depending on what part of the establishment you go into. Obviously
living
in Kelso then the 5 mile test wouldn't work. There is not another town
within 5 miles and we're just a wee place. However if we said 30 minutes
or
so drive then that'd take in all the main towns in Roxburghshire,
Selkirkshire, Berwickshire and northern Northumberland including Berwick
itself. If alcohol isn't involved then driving isn't a problem. I'd
reckon
we'd be able to choose from many dozens of establishments. We used to
have
a
group called "the Rabbit Kickers" and went out the first Thursday of
every
month for a meal. We did it for years and never went back to the same
place.
Most dining experiences were good. Of course an hours drive up into the
Edinburgh area and then the choice is far greater. It does seem to be
more
expensive in the UK but if middle of the road pricing is being talked
about
then we have to compare like with like! So middle of the road in the UK
may
be more than middle of the road in the US but they are both still middle
of
the road.



We live in a Surrey village of 5,000.
Within the village we have 4 pubs with food, ranging from pub grub to
expensive international ... 2 Indian ... 2 Chinese ... one fish & chips
...
2 'light bites'.
Within walking distance to the town (20 minutes) we have just about every
permutation and international cuisine normally available in the UK -
including a Mongolian(?!) that I haven't yet tried!

Surreyman


Robert Peffers

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Robert Peffers » 16 nov 2007 22:48:39

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:473C79E6.D713A9E9@sbcglobal.net...

Westprog wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
...
I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Though I think there's no shortage of such places in the UK, they tend to
cost more than their American equivalents.

I think that's what the original poster was getting at...your
middle-of-the-road eateries don't have middle-of-the-road
pricing which makes the cheaper fast food more attractive,
especially for families with children...which is the last thing
you should be feeding growing children, too much fat, too
much starch, too much sugar, too few veggies...

I know some of the fast food places advertise that they
have "healthy" meals for kids in the form of chicken, apples
and milk, so why is it whenever I see a sprog eating their
food it's always burgers, fries and soda? Do the parents
lack sense or a spine?

Deirdre

Nah! I mentioned it a while back. The parents tend to only treat such as
McD's as a special, once in a blue moon, treat for the kids and it is thus
not a problem.

I gave a young mother and her two boys a lift to the supermarket a couple of
weeks back, her hubby's car was in for repairs. She avoided all the burger
and fried chicken joins at the shopping park and took the kid's to the ASDA,
(Wal-Mart), restaurant. They actually do quite a good, and cheap, meal.
--
Auld Bob Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Nebulous

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Nebulous » 17 nov 2007 10:05:05

"allan connochie" <conncohies@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:jPR_i.37460$uH.16139@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
"Nebulous" <jwest@pigtail.com> wrote in message
news:gfqdnecvVJ1j7qbanZ2dnUVZ8q2dnZ2d@pipex.net...

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...


"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French, Turkish,
Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.

Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like to
re-define British food?

My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much
better
selection of medium level places in the States versus the British
Isles.

I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.

It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast Food
outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.

Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper" restaurants
which
supply good food from the medium to the top levels of gourmet
standards.

I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.

In Scotland pubs have really developed the food side of their business
since the smoking ban came in and they are where you get the best value -
many of them have separate eating areas away from the bar so from the
inside you are hard put to tell the difference.

I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the States,
but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.

I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Well I don't have much experience of the US of A (one trip to Florida)
but that strikes me as extraordinarily good. A fair bit of it may be to
do with the parlous state of the dollar - but as most of the SCS folks
know I travel to Inverness regularly in the course of my work. My company
limits my expenses claim to £9.50 for an evening meal. ( just under $20
at current rates) I find it very difficult to get a decent main course
and a cup of coffee for that. (They won't pay for alcohol at all so I
have to buy my own anyway.)

I don't think in the UK you can segregate pubs and restaurants like
Deirdrie does. You get pubs where food is served in the bar or pub food is
served elsewhere of course, and you get places which are specifically just
restaurants - but many places are both pub and and proper restaurant
depending on what part of the establishment you go into. Obviously living
in Kelso then the 5 mile test wouldn't work. There is not another town
within 5 miles and we're just a wee place. However if we said 30 minutes
or so drive then that'd take in all the main towns in Roxburghshire,
Selkirkshire, Berwickshire and northern Northumberland including Berwick
itself. If alcohol isn't involved then driving isn't a problem. I'd reckon
we'd be able to choose from many dozens of establishments. We used to have
a group called "the Rabbit Kickers" and went out the first Thursday of
every month for a meal. We did it for years and never went back to the
same place. Most dining experiences were good. Of course an hours drive up
into the Edinburgh area and then the choice is far greater. It does seem
to be more expensive in the UK but if middle of the road pricing is being
talked about then we have to compare like with like! So middle of the road
in the UK may be more than middle of the road in the US but they are both
still middle of the road.

I started of by thinking that middle of the road depended on economic
circumstances. I had the suspicion that for many people in these groups
'middle of the road' would be what I would regard as the upper end for a
special occasion.

However you are right that there is a UK/US difference here.

Much of it is due to the decline in the dollar relative to the pound.

Many consumers, particularly for computer components/cd's/electrical goods
etc used to rail about prices being based on the £1 = $1 ratio.

This was irritating when £1 was at $1.20-30. It is totally unsustainable
however at over $2

If the dollar doesn't recover relative to the pound (we may have some
interest rate cuts in the pipeline) then they are in for a hugely painful
period of readjustment.

I had a quick look at some prices, and if people are buying a lot of
expensive items for Christmas then it is just about worth flying to the
States to get them. The only problem with that being you have to just about
promise the Americans your first and third born to be allowed on a plane.

So the pound/dollar conversion for comparing middle of the road meals is a
total red herring (introduced by me as well!)

Neb

Nebulous

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Nebulous » 17 nov 2007 10:10:37

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:473E6042.3CEE1541@sbcglobal.net...

Robert Peffers wrote:

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...


"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French, Turkish,
Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.

Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like to
re-define British food?

My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much
better
selection of medium level places in the States versus the British
Isles.

I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.

It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast Food
outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.

Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper" restaurants
which
supply good food from the medium to the top levels of gourmet
standards.

I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.
Not quite true though.
In the village, (Kelty), we have, "The No. 1 Inn", which has, "The
Clippie's
Fare", attached. This is not your, "Bar Meals", kind of establishment and
is
self-contained, though part of the same licensed premises. Note that the
Clippie's Fare is so named for the once nearby Bus Garage made famous by
the
folk song, "The Kelty Clippie".
Hear it here - http://www.thetraditionbearers.com/htmfiles/songs.htm

Mind you there is a difference between a Public House and an Inn.

I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the States,
but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.

I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Bear in mind, I live in a rather far-flung suburb (far enough
out that it's laughable to consider it a bedroom community
of Chicago)...things are better and the choices increase as
one gets closer to the city. You don't have to "know where
to look", you simply have to be willing to step into a place
with a name you don't recognise as a brand.

Deirdre
I think you will find that Scotland has many hotels and Inns in country
areas with much better than average kitchens.

Quality is not the sole criterion, Bob, cost also
figures in...it's value for money that's the real
topic here.

Yestereve His Lordship and I went out for a meal...
admittedly outside the 5 mile radius, but we had
other errands to run...we stopped at a small steak-
house (not a chain like Outback) in a town we're
likely to never be again at a family run restaurant.

He had a sirloin (first one since the heart issues
last August) with a baked potato, I had grilled prawns
with rice pilaf, we shared a starter of stuffed mush-
rooms, both of us had salads, dessert and coffee...
(the steak was grilled, Americans don't fry steaks
as a general rule and more power to them for that).
The total tab came to $26.85 and we left a $10.00
tip because the service was stellar...the place was
all but empty.

If you apply the exchange rate, our meal for two (with
tip) set us back £18.45. Admittedly this was a in small
community out in the hinterlands (or at least what we
consider hinterlands from our position in the back of
beyond) and not representative of pricing closer to the
city where we'd probably pay closer to £25-35 (a lot of
that for "ambiance") but have you any place in Scotland
that can match, or even come close to value for the
pound? In the country _or_ the city?

No we haven't not a hope.

I've just posted somewhere else in the thread though to say that the
pound/dollar comparison doesn't really stand up to scrutiny given the
unusual economic circumstances at the moment.

I know it was me who introduced it - but I can change my mind, can't I?

Neb

John Briggs

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av John Briggs » 17 nov 2007 13:37:15

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
Robert Peffers wrote:

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...


"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French,
Turkish, Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.

Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like
to re-define British food?

My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much
better selection of medium level places in the States versus the
British Isles.

I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.

It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast
Food outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.

Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper" restaurants
which supply good food from the medium to the top levels of
gourmet standards.

I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.
Not quite true though.
In the village, (Kelty), we have, "The No. 1 Inn", which has, "The
Clippie's Fare", attached. This is not your, "Bar Meals", kind of
establishment and is self-contained, though part of the same
licensed premises. Note that the Clippie's Fare is so named for the
once nearby Bus Garage made famous by the folk song, "The Kelty
Clippie".
Hear it here - http://www.thetraditionbearers.com/htmfiles/songs.htm

Mind you there is a difference between a Public House and an Inn.

I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the
States, but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.

I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Bear in mind, I live in a rather far-flung suburb (far enough
out that it's laughable to consider it a bedroom community
of Chicago)...things are better and the choices increase as
one gets closer to the city. You don't have to "know where
to look", you simply have to be willing to step into a place
with a name you don't recognise as a brand.

Deirdre
I think you will find that Scotland has many hotels and Inns in
country areas with much better than average kitchens.

Quality is not the sole criterion, Bob, cost also
figures in...it's value for money that's the real
topic here.

Yestereve His Lordship and I went out for a meal...
admittedly outside the 5 mile radius, but we had
other errands to run...we stopped at a small steak-
house (not a chain like Outback) in a town we're
likely to never be again at a family run restaurant.

He had a sirloin (first one since the heart issues
last August) with a baked potato, I had grilled prawns
with rice pilaf, we shared a starter of stuffed mush-
rooms, both of us had salads, dessert and coffee...
(the steak was grilled, Americans don't fry steaks
as a general rule and more power to them for that).

I don't think anyone fries steak. I always remember as a child when my
mother discovered frying steak (this is the next cheaper cut to rump steak).
She was puzzled and asked the butcher, "Do you fry it?" To which the butcher
replied, "Madam, the only thing I fry is an egg!"
--
John Briggs

Turlough

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Turlough » 17 nov 2007 13:59:53

Nebulous wrote:

He had a sirloin (first one since the heart issues
last August) with a baked potato, I had grilled prawns
with rice pilaf, we shared a starter of stuffed mush-
rooms, both of us had salads, dessert and coffee...
(the steak was grilled, Americans don't fry steaks
as a general rule and more power to them for that).
The total tab came to $26.85 and we left a $10.00
tip because the service was stellar...the place was
all but empty.

I've just posted somewhere else in the thread though to say that the
pound/dollar comparison doesn't really stand up to scrutiny given the
unusual economic circumstances at the moment.
I know it was me who introduced it - but I can change my mind, can't I?

Deirdre got quite a bargain on her steak dinner. Of course, some of that
relates to her geographic location. The midwest of the US is a big time
beef processing area. On the east coast, we would have paid that price
per person, and still felt good about that price being medium to
average. On another note, we were out last night with a group and I felt
like a martini was in order. When I asked what brands were available,
the lad said the smoothest gin he had was Hendricks. Being one of those
auld Irish Guinness & Jamesons aficionados, I was pig ignorant that the
Scottish folks made gin as well as their great scotches. With great
trepidation, after reminding myself that Talisker was surely only an
anomaly, I chose the Hendricks. A bit pricey, but well worth the
investment. The Scots certainly know how to make great hooch...:>))

Conway Caine

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Conway Caine » 17 nov 2007 16:17:43

"Turlough" <turlough@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:TvidnasxzpDMe6PanZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
Nebulous wrote:

He had a sirloin (first one since the heart issues
last August) with a baked potato, I had grilled prawns
with rice pilaf, we shared a starter of stuffed mush-
rooms, both of us had salads, dessert and coffee...
(the steak was grilled, Americans don't fry steaks
as a general rule and more power to them for that).
The total tab came to $26.85 and we left a $10.00
tip because the service was stellar...the place was
all but empty.

I've just posted somewhere else in the thread though to say that the
pound/dollar comparison doesn't really stand up to scrutiny given the
unusual economic circumstances at the moment.
I know it was me who introduced it - but I can change my mind, can't I?

Deirdre got quite a bargain on her steak dinner. Of course, some of that
relates to her geographic location. The midwest of the US is a big time
beef processing area. On the east coast, we would have paid that price per
person, and still felt good about that price being medium to average. On
another note, we were out last night with a group and I felt like a
martini was in order. When I asked what brands were available, the lad
said the smoothest gin he had was Hendricks. Being one of those auld Irish
Guinness & Jamesons aficionados, I was pig ignorant that the Scottish
folks made gin as well as their great scotches. With great trepidation,
after reminding myself that Talisker was surely only an anomaly, I chose
the Hendricks. A bit pricey, but well worth the investment. The Scots
certainly know how to make great hooch...:>))

Except for the aforementioned Talisker, Turlough.....................
(But you need never fear a goiter if you drink that stuff)

Cory Bhreckan

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Cory Bhreckan » 17 nov 2007 23:55:49

John Briggs wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
Robert Peffers wrote:
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...

"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:
On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French,
Turkish, Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.
Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like
to re-define British food?
My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much
better selection of medium level places in the States versus the
British Isles.
I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.
It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast
Food outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.
Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper" restaurants
which supply good food from the medium to the top levels of
gourmet standards.
I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.
Not quite true though.
In the village, (Kelty), we have, "The No. 1 Inn", which has, "The
Clippie's Fare", attached. This is not your, "Bar Meals", kind of
establishment and is self-contained, though part of the same
licensed premises. Note that the Clippie's Fare is so named for the
once nearby Bus Garage made famous by the folk song, "The Kelty
Clippie".
Hear it here - http://www.thetraditionbearers.com/htmfiles/songs.htm

Mind you there is a difference between a Public House and an Inn.
I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the
States, but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.
I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Bear in mind, I live in a rather far-flung suburb (far enough
out that it's laughable to consider it a bedroom community
of Chicago)...things are better and the choices increase as
one gets closer to the city. You don't have to "know where
to look", you simply have to be willing to step into a place
with a name you don't recognise as a brand.

Deirdre
I think you will find that Scotland has many hotels and Inns in
country areas with much better than average kitchens.
Quality is not the sole criterion, Bob, cost also
figures in...it's value for money that's the real
topic here.

Yestereve His Lordship and I went out for a meal...
admittedly outside the 5 mile radius, but we had
other errands to run...we stopped at a small steak-
house (not a chain like Outback) in a town we're
likely to never be again at a family run restaurant.

He had a sirloin (first one since the heart issues
last August) with a baked potato, I had grilled prawns
with rice pilaf, we shared a starter of stuffed mush-
rooms, both of us had salads, dessert and coffee...
(the steak was grilled, Americans don't fry steaks
as a general rule and more power to them for that).

I don't think anyone fries steak. I always remember as a child when my
mother discovered frying steak (this is the next cheaper cut to rump steak).
She was puzzled and asked the butcher, "Do you fry it?" To which the butcher
replied, "Madam, the only thing I fry is an egg!"

In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.

--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

Peter Jason

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Peter Jason » 18 nov 2007 01:43:27

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas"
<finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message
news:473E6042.3CEE1541@sbcglobal.net...

Robert Peffers wrote:

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas"
finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message
news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...


"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia
re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain
includes American, French, Turkish,
Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc,
food.

Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define
American food or would you like to
re-define British food?

My definitions include everything
available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I
still fell there's a much better
selection of medium level places in
the States versus the British
Isles.

I think you're probably right,
although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are
franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are
still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in
most UK cities.

It really all depends upon one's own
standards doesn't it? Fast Food
outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.

Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a
standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger
proliferation of "proper" restaurants
which
supply good food from the medium to the
top levels of gourmet standards.

I think that depends on the definition
of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one,
don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no
matter what the
quality of their food.
Not quite true though.
In the village, (Kelty), we have, "The No.
1 Inn", which has, "The Clippie's
Fare", attached. This is not your, "Bar
Meals", kind of establishment and is
self-contained, though part of the same
licensed premises. Note that the
Clippie's Fare is so named for the once
nearby Bus Garage made famous by the
folk song, "The Kelty Clippie".
Hear it here -
http://www.thetraditionbearers.com/htmfiles/songs.htm

Mind you there is a difference between a
Public House and an Inn.

I am
told that one can actually find really
good restaurants in the States,
but
you have to know where to look and to
be prepared to pay heavily.

I can think of at least 20 restaurants,
within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a
good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no
alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying
heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much
middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't
get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in
that same radius.)

Bear in mind, I live in a rather
far-flung suburb (far enough
out that it's laughable to consider it a
bedroom community
of Chicago)...things are better and the
choices increase as
one gets closer to the city. You don't
have to "know where
to look", you simply have to be willing
to step into a place
with a name you don't recognise as a
brand.

Deirdre
I think you will find that Scotland has
many hotels and Inns in country
areas with much better than average
kitchens.

Quality is not the sole criterion, Bob,
cost also
figures in...it's value for money that's
the real
topic here.

Yestereve His Lordship and I went out for a
meal...
admittedly outside the 5 mile radius, but
we had
other errands to run...we stopped at a
small steak-
house (not a chain like Outback) in a town
we're
likely to never be again at a family run
restaurant.

He had a sirloin (first one since the heart
issues
last August) with a baked potato, I had
grilled prawns
with rice pilaf, we shared a starter of
stuffed mush-
rooms, both of us had salads, dessert and
coffee...
(the steak was grilled, Americans don't fry
steaks
as a general rule and more power to them
for that).
The total tab came to $26.85 and we left a
$10.00
tip because the service was stellar...the
place was
all but empty.

If you apply the exchange rate, our meal
for two (with
tip) set us back £18.45. Admittedly this
was a in small
community out in the hinterlands (or at
least what we
consider hinterlands from our position in
the back of
beyond) and not representative of pricing
closer to the
city where we'd probably pay closer to
£25-35 (a lot of
that for "ambiance") but have you any place
in Scotland
that can match, or even come close to value
for the
pound? In the country _or_ the city?

Deirdre


My little soirées hardy involve cooking at
all.

It is enough to buy and arrange the most
expensive smallgoods, oysters & prawns,
cheeses and other exotica, with quality bread
(hard to find) and butter and pate.

A couple of salads with tomatoes, olives
await on the sideboard, and for those who
like something hot there is a large pot of
spaghetti on the stove (that can be
microwavedif necessary.)

Chocolates and liqueurs await on the
sideboard too.

I am careful to prepare as much as possible
the day before to allow time to prepare the
booze and arrange the symphony of crystal
glasses, and even to clean the chandelier
just before the festivities commence. Laying
the table is an art in itself and involves 1/
a layer of polythene sheet, 2/ an under-cloth
to give bulk, 3/ a violet tablecloth for
colour, 4/ a fine white lace outer covering
for contrast. I place as many glasses on
the table that will fit because they sparkle
under the chandelier and the guests feel
useful rearranging them

When the guests arrive is sufficient to greet
them with "dinner is served" (no small-talk
required) and any late-comers can go to the
devil. As soon as they are herded into their
seats the champagne flows, starting with
cheese & bread, then salad, then spaghetti if
necessary, followed by a miscellany of white
& red wines. All I have to do is lift plates
of food out of the refrigerator and shovel
oysters at the guests. It is all a great
success and the conversation starts at the
heights and descends to the depths.

As soon as the ladies start to lose postural
tone I offer coffee or tea, and then present
the liqueurs with dozens of small xtall
goblets (they all want to try *all* the
liqueurs), and this can be followed with
exotic beer for the boys, and a spumante for
the girls.

The whole point is that *anything* one spends
at home is but a fraction of the amount spent
at a restaurant; there is no booking and
tedious travel to crowded places, no fawning
waiters, no tips and definitely to large bill
at the end.

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 18 nov 2007 03:14:33

Peter Jason wrote:
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas"
finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message

If you apply the exchange rate, our meal
for two (with
tip) set us back £18.45. Admittedly this
was a in small
community out in the hinterlands (or at
least what we
consider hinterlands from our position in
the back of
beyond) and not representative of pricing
closer to the
city where we'd probably pay closer to
£25-35 (a lot of
that for "ambiance") but have you any place
in Scotland
that can match, or even come close to value
for the
pound? In the country _or_ the city?


My little soirées hardy involve cooking at
all.

[...]

The whole point is that *anything* one spends
at home is but a fraction of the amount spent
at a restaurant; there is no booking and
tedious travel to crowded places, no fawning
waiters, no tips and definitely to large bill
at the end.

Of course it is, but only because the labour involved in eating
at home is discounted to "free". Were I to be paid for the time
and effort (shopping, preparing, cleaning up afterwards) that
I put into meals at home...eating out would, far and away, be
the more cost effective.

I have to wonder about your menu however...spaghetti sounds
easy, but what of the sauce? In my kitchen the pasta takes
very little time and effort to cook, but the sauce can take
hours of simmering (pesto is easier, but still requires either
harvesting or purchasing fresh basil)...as a result, it's a meal
that's only seen here on the weekends when I have the time to
make it. Are you simply opening a jar? (And have you ever
noticed how much salt and sugar are _added_ to those jars?)

Deirdre

Peter Jason

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Peter Jason » 18 nov 2007 07:14:48

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas"
<finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message
news:473F9FF4.E039BA98@sbcglobal.net...

Peter Jason wrote:

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas"
finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message

If you apply the exchange rate, our meal
for two (with
tip) set us back £18.45. Admittedly
this
was a in small
community out in the hinterlands (or at
least what we
consider hinterlands from our position
in
the back of
beyond) and not representative of
pricing
closer to the
city where we'd probably pay closer to
£25-35 (a lot of
that for "ambiance") but have you any
place
in Scotland
that can match, or even come close to
value
for the
pound? In the country _or_ the city?


My little soirées hardy involve cooking at
all.

[...]

The whole point is that *anything* one
spends
at home is but a fraction of the amount
spent
at a restaurant; there is no booking and
tedious travel to crowded places, no
fawning
waiters, no tips and definitely to large
bill
at the end.

Of course it is, but only because the
labour involved in eating
at home is discounted to "free". Were I to
be paid for the time
and effort (shopping, preparing, cleaning
up afterwards) that
I put into meals at home...eating out
would, far and away, be
the more cost effective.

I have to wonder about your menu
however...spaghetti sounds
easy, but what of the sauce? In my kitchen
the pasta takes
very little time and effort to cook, but
the sauce can take
hours of simmering (pesto is easier, but
still requires either
harvesting or purchasing fresh basil)...as
a result, it's a meal
that's only seen here on the weekends when
I have the time to
make it. Are you simply opening a jar?
(And have you ever
noticed how much salt and sugar are _added_
to those jars?)

Deirdre

I live close to town in a very populated area
and anything is freely available (except
quality French-style bread) even at a smaller
supermarket. Many items can be kept in stock
in an efficient refrigerator. Herbs I have
in pots growing together with other plants,
especially rosemary which is hard to kill.
Spaghetti sauce I make days before by the
following method: Buy a kilo of 'diet'
mincemeat (reduced fat) and into this
incorporate some chopped onion and garlic and
rosemary. Roll into small balls and fry
these with oil in a deep casserole pot to a
very deep brown colour. Reduce heat and
throw in 2 large cans of spaghetti sauce and
two jars of tomato paste and simmer for a
short while, adding a cup or two of fine
cabernet. Turn off the heat and leave on
the stove to cool and then put the whole
thing into the refrigerator until the day of
the dinner. Boil up the spaghetti in the
usual way just before the guests arrive, then
throw in all the warmed-up sauce. Grated
cheese, chopped spring onions, pepper are
added by the guests themselves. The sauce
takes half an hour, even with TV breaks.

Contrast this with the meals I get when I go
to *their* places, invariably an English
style roast with vegetables, all quite
wonderful except that some items are hot and
others cold, and something always goes wrong
in the kitchen that interrupts everything.
Or the meat is overcooked and the vegetables
underdone etc. The trick is to have
everything organized and complete *before*
the guests arrive. Also I live alone and
have no-one to help me. Keep it simple and
of high quality - like jewellery.

Never serve desert; the host has to eat too.

Judging by the amount of booze the guests put
away, any excess salt & sugar would by
flushed away by 9pm.

Turlough

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Turlough » 18 nov 2007 09:01:27

Cory Bhreckan wrote:


In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.

I"ve had it. It's not too bad if you have strong teeth. Wait a minute,
did I just introduce a paradox? :>))

Doug McDonald

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Doug McDonald » 18 nov 2007 15:53:58

Turlough wrote:
Cory Bhreckan wrote:


In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.

I"ve had it. It's not too bad if you have strong teeth.

That was true in the 1950s. Today its made with good meat and
is delicious, if indeed lethal. It's also in Mexican
food, where it is called "Milanese". You can have Milanese tacos ...
chopped up fried breaded steak (chopped after frying) put
into a tortilla dipped in grease and heated! Myself,
I'll take my grease tacos as Choriza. Yummm.

Doug McDonald

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 18 nov 2007 17:56:43

Peter Jason wrote:
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas"
finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message
news:473F9FF4.E039BA98@sbcglobal.net...

I have to wonder about your menu
however...spaghetti sounds
easy, but what of the sauce? In my kitchen
the pasta takes
very little time and effort to cook, but
the sauce can take
hours of simmering (pesto is easier, but
still requires either
harvesting or purchasing fresh basil)...as
a result, it's a meal
that's only seen here on the weekends when
I have the time to
make it. Are you simply opening a jar?
(And have you ever
noticed how much salt and sugar are _added_
to those jars?)


I live close to town in a very populated area
and anything is freely available (except
quality French-style bread) even at a smaller
supermarket.

<sigh> That's not available _anywhere_ on this side of
the Great Undrinkable...which is not to say there aren't
some good locally baked breads, they're just not the
same.

Spaghetti sauce I make days before by the
following method: Buy a kilo of 'diet'
mincemeat (reduced fat) and into this
incorporate some chopped onion and garlic and
rosemary. Roll into small balls and fry
these with oil in a deep casserole pot to a
very deep brown colour. Reduce heat and
throw in 2 large cans of spaghetti sauce and
two jars of tomato paste and simmer for a
short while, adding a cup or two of fine
cabernet.

Hm...so you _are_ using canned (sauce and paste) in-
gredients. Well, yes, that _would_ make things easier
but it doesn't fly in my world because His Lordship's
heart condition means that all fats, salts and sugars
need to be carefully monitored which means no pro-
cessed foods.

My ingredients are simpler:

Diced organic tomatoes
Several cloves crushed garlic
Oregano
Marjoram
Basil
Crushed red peppers
Celery seed
White pepper
Red wine
Vegetables as desired

Simmer tomatoes for 90 minutes or so, add everything
else except wine, simmer 30 more minutes. Put every-
thing through Foley food mill. Return to pan. Add wine
and veggies and simmer indefinitely.

The tomatoes and herbs come from the garden in summer
and from the organic market or windowill in winter/spring.
I don't measure anything, so I've no idea what the quantities
are..."until it looks/smells right" tends to be how I operate.

Turn off the heat and leave on
the stove to cool

_That_ is _not_ a safe way of doing it and were it not
for the preservatives in your canned goods, you'd be
taking a risk with your guest's' health. Divide it into
smaller containers if you must, but don't let it sit out
to cool...you're inviting bacteria in (you've fructose
and sucrose in the mix and both can act as bacterial
electron donors).

Contrast this with the meals I get when I go
to *their* places, invariably an English
style roast with vegetables, all quite
wonderful except that some items are hot and
others cold, and something always goes wrong
in the kitchen that interrupts everything.

That's simple ineptitude and easily corrected with prac-
tice...people today aren't _used_ to giving dinners and
most didn't grow up watching their parents do so, so
they're feeling their way forward.

Judging by the amount of booze the guests put
away, any excess salt & sugar would by
flushed away by 9pm.

If your friends are more interested in drinking than
food, then why are you surprised their dinners are
unorganised?

Deirdre

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 18 nov 2007 18:19:22

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:47406ECA.71F2A38F@sbcglobal.net...

I live close to town in a very populated area
and anything is freely available (except
quality French-style bread) even at a smaller
supermarket. [sop]

sigh> That's not available _anywhere_ on this side of
the Great Undrinkable...which is not to say there aren't
some good locally baked breads, they're just not the
same.

I have an excellent supplier of French bread here -- two, in fact -- which
ensures Good Capitalistic Competition.

Spaghetti sauce I make days before by the
following method: Buy a kilo of 'diet'
mincemeat (reduced fat) and into this
incorporate some chopped onion and garlic and
rosemary. Roll into small balls and fry
these with oil in a deep casserole pot to a
very deep brown colour. Reduce heat and
throw in 2 large cans of spaghetti sauce and
two jars of tomato paste and simmer for a
short while, adding a cup or two of fine
cabernet. [sop]

Yuk!

Hm...so you _are_ using canned (sauce and paste) in-
gredients. Well, yes, that _would_ make things easier
but it doesn't fly in my world because His Lordship's
heart condition means that all fats, salts and sugars
need to be carefully monitored which means no pro-
cessed foods.

Smart, even for folks WITHOUT a heart condition -- hrlping to avoid GETTING
one.

My ingredients are simpler:

Diced organic tomatoes
Several cloves crushed garlic
Oregano
Marjoram
Basil
Crushed red peppers
Celery seed
White pepper
Red wine
Vegetables as desired

Simmer tomatoes for 90 minutes or so, add everything
else except wine, simmer 30 more minutes. Put every-
thing through Foley food mill. Return to pan. Add wine
and veggies and simmer indefinitely.

The tomatoes and herbs come from the garden in summer
and from the organic market or windowill in winter/spring.
I don't measure anything, so I've no idea what the quantities
are..."until it looks/smells right" tends to be how I operate.

Turn off the heat and leave on
the stove to cool

_That_ is _not_ a safe way of doing it and were it not
for the preservatives in your canned goods, you'd be
taking a risk with your guest's' health. Divide it into
smaller containers if you must, but don't let it sit out
to cool...you're inviting bacteria in (you've fructose
and sucrose in the mix and both can act as bacterial
electron donors).

Contrast this with the meals I get when I go
to *their* places, invariably an English
style roast with vegetables, all quite
wonderful except that some items are hot and
others cold, and something always goes wrong
in the kitchen that interrupts everything.

That's simple ineptitude and easily corrected with prac-
tice...people today aren't _used_ to giving dinners and
most didn't grow up watching their parents do so, so
they're feeling their way forward.

Judging by the amount of booze the guests put
away, any excess salt & sugar would by
flushed away by 9pm.

If your friends are more interested in drinking than
food, then why are you surprised their dinners are
unorganised?

True...

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

a.spencer3

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av a.spencer3 » 18 nov 2007 18:44:43

"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:cv_%i.668$Ig4.2911@eagle.america.net...
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:47406ECA.71F2A38F@sbcglobal.net...

I live close to town in a very populated area
and anything is freely available (except
quality French-style bread) even at a smaller
supermarket. [sop]

sigh> That's not available _anywhere_ on this side of
the Great Undrinkable...which is not to say there aren't
some good locally baked breads, they're just not the
same.

I have an excellent supplier of French bread here -- two, in fact -- which
ensures Good Capitalistic Competition.

Spaghetti sauce I make days before by the
following method: Buy a kilo of 'diet'
mincemeat (reduced fat) and into this
incorporate some chopped onion and garlic and
rosemary. Roll into small balls and fry
these with oil in a deep casserole pot to a
very deep brown colour. Reduce heat and
throw in 2 large cans of spaghetti sauce and
two jars of tomato paste and simmer for a
short while, adding a cup or two of fine
cabernet. [sop]

Yuk!

Hm...so you _are_ using canned (sauce and paste) in-
gredients. Well, yes, that _would_ make things easier
but it doesn't fly in my world because His Lordship's
heart condition means that all fats, salts and sugars
need to be carefully monitored which means no pro-
cessed foods.

Smart, even for folks WITHOUT a heart condition -- hrlping to avoid
GETTING
one.

My ingredients are simpler:

Diced organic tomatoes
Several cloves crushed garlic
Oregano
Marjoram
Basil
Crushed red peppers
Celery seed
White pepper
Red wine
Vegetables as desired

Simmer tomatoes for 90 minutes or so, add everything
else except wine, simmer 30 more minutes. Put every-
thing through Foley food mill. Return to pan. Add wine
and veggies and simmer indefinitely.

The tomatoes and herbs come from the garden in summer
and from the organic market or windowill in winter/spring.
I don't measure anything, so I've no idea what the quantities
are..."until it looks/smells right" tends to be how I operate.

Turn off the heat and leave on
the stove to cool

_That_ is _not_ a safe way of doing it and were it not
for the preservatives in your canned goods, you'd be
taking a risk with your guest's' health. Divide it into
smaller containers if you must, but don't let it sit out
to cool...you're inviting bacteria in (you've fructose
and sucrose in the mix and both can act as bacterial
electron donors).

Contrast this with the meals I get when I go
to *their* places, invariably an English
style roast with vegetables, all quite
wonderful except that some items are hot and
others cold, and something always goes wrong
in the kitchen that interrupts everything.

That's simple ineptitude and easily corrected with prac-
tice...people today aren't _used_ to giving dinners and
most didn't grow up watching their parents do so, so
they're feeling their way forward.

Judging by the amount of booze the guests put
away, any excess salt & sugar would by
flushed away by 9pm.

If your friends are more interested in drinking than
food, then why are you surprised their dinners are
unorganised?

True...

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas



Says the twit who wants to swill down Champagne with his steak.

Surreyman

Renia

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Renia » 18 nov 2007 18:51:42

a.spencer3 wrote:

"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:cv_%i.668$Ig4.2911@eagle.america.net...



If your friends are more interested in drinking than
food, then why are you surprised their dinners are
unorganised?

True...

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas




Says the twit who wants to swill down Champagne with his steak.

And with his grits.

Conway Caine

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Conway Caine » 18 nov 2007 21:43:33

"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VjK%i.1719$Mg1.499@trndny03...
John Briggs wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
Robert Peffers wrote:
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...

"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:
On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French,
Turkish, Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.
Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like
to re-define British food?
My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much
better selection of medium level places in the States versus the
British Isles.
I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.
It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast
Food outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.
Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper" restaurants
which supply good food from the medium to the top levels of
gourmet standards.
I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.
Not quite true though.
In the village, (Kelty), we have, "The No. 1 Inn", which has, "The
Clippie's Fare", attached. This is not your, "Bar Meals", kind of
establishment and is self-contained, though part of the same
licensed premises. Note that the Clippie's Fare is so named for the
once nearby Bus Garage made famous by the folk song, "The Kelty
Clippie".
Hear it here - http://www.thetraditionbearers.com/htmfiles/songs.htm

Mind you there is a difference between a Public House and an Inn.
I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the
States, but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.
I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Bear in mind, I live in a rather far-flung suburb (far enough
out that it's laughable to consider it a bedroom community
of Chicago)...things are better and the choices increase as
one gets closer to the city. You don't have to "know where
to look", you simply have to be willing to step into a place
with a name you don't recognise as a brand.

Deirdre
I think you will find that Scotland has many hotels and Inns in
country areas with much better than average kitchens.
Quality is not the sole criterion, Bob, cost also
figures in...it's value for money that's the real
topic here.

Yestereve His Lordship and I went out for a meal...
admittedly outside the 5 mile radius, but we had
other errands to run...we stopped at a small steak-
house (not a chain like Outback) in a town we're
likely to never be again at a family run restaurant.

He had a sirloin (first one since the heart issues
last August) with a baked potato, I had grilled prawns
with rice pilaf, we shared a starter of stuffed mush-
rooms, both of us had salads, dessert and coffee...
(the steak was grilled, Americans don't fry steaks
as a general rule and more power to them for that).

I don't think anyone fries steak. I always remember as a child when my
mother discovered frying steak (this is the next cheaper cut to rump
steak). She was puzzled and asked the butcher, "Do you fry it?" To which
the butcher replied, "Madam, the only thing I fry is an egg!"

In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.

Actually Chicken Fried Steak is quite tasty.

Cory Bhreckan

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Cory Bhreckan » 18 nov 2007 23:11:47

Turlough wrote:
Cory Bhreckan wrote:


In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.

I"ve had it. It's not too bad if you have strong teeth. Wait a minute,
did I just introduce a paradox? :>))


Only if the strong teeth are your own.

--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

Cory Bhreckan

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Cory Bhreckan » 18 nov 2007 23:12:29

Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VjK%i.1719$Mg1.499@trndny03...
John Briggs wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
Robert Peffers wrote:
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...
"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:
On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French,
Turkish, Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.
Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like
to re-define British food?
My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much
better selection of medium level places in the States versus the
British Isles.
I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.
It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast
Food outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.
Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper" restaurants
which supply good food from the medium to the top levels of
gourmet standards.
I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.
Not quite true though.
In the village, (Kelty), we have, "The No. 1 Inn", which has, "The
Clippie's Fare", attached. This is not your, "Bar Meals", kind of
establishment and is self-contained, though part of the same
licensed premises. Note that the Clippie's Fare is so named for the
once nearby Bus Garage made famous by the folk song, "The Kelty
Clippie".
Hear it here - http://www.thetraditionbearers.com/htmfiles/songs.htm

Mind you there is a difference between a Public House and an Inn.
I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the
States, but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.
I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Bear in mind, I live in a rather far-flung suburb (far enough
out that it's laughable to consider it a bedroom community
of Chicago)...things are better and the choices increase as
one gets closer to the city. You don't have to "know where
to look", you simply have to be willing to step into a place
with a name you don't recognise as a brand.

Deirdre
I think you will find that Scotland has many hotels and Inns in
country areas with much better than average kitchens.
Quality is not the sole criterion, Bob, cost also
figures in...it's value for money that's the real
topic here.

Yestereve His Lordship and I went out for a meal...
admittedly outside the 5 mile radius, but we had
other errands to run...we stopped at a small steak-
house (not a chain like Outback) in a town we're
likely to never be again at a family run restaurant.

He had a sirloin (first one since the heart issues
last August) with a baked potato, I had grilled prawns
with rice pilaf, we shared a starter of stuffed mush-
rooms, both of us had salads, dessert and coffee...
(the steak was grilled, Americans don't fry steaks
as a general rule and more power to them for that).
I don't think anyone fries steak. I always remember as a child when my
mother discovered frying steak (this is the next cheaper cut to rump
steak). She was puzzled and asked the butcher, "Do you fry it?" To which
the butcher replied, "Madam, the only thing I fry is an egg!"
In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.

Actually Chicken Fried Steak is quite tasty.

Most deep fried foods are tasty, and lethal.


--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 19 nov 2007 00:46:30

Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VjK%i.1719$Mg1.499@trndny03...

In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.

Actually Chicken Fried Steak is quite tasty.

What sort of steak is used? I'd think something like
a flank steak would get horribly tough if it were fried.

Deirdre

Peter Jason

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Peter Jason » 19 nov 2007 00:47:25

Spaghetti sauce I make days before by the
following method: Buy a kilo of 'diet'
mincemeat (reduced fat) and into this
incorporate some chopped onion and garlic
and
rosemary. Roll into small balls and fry
these with oil in a deep casserole pot to
a
very deep brown colour. Reduce heat and
throw in 2 large cans of spaghetti sauce
and
two jars of tomato paste and simmer for a
short while, adding a cup or two of fine
cabernet. [sop]

Yuk!

Hm...so you _are_ using canned (sauce and
paste) in-
gredients. Well, yes, that _would_ make
things easier
but it doesn't fly in my world because His
Lordship's
heart condition means that all fats, salts
and sugars
need to be carefully monitored which means
no pro-
cessed foods.

All foods in cans are not worthless. Indeed,
all restaurants use large cans called
"catering packs" that are but larger versions
of the supermarket variety. Those vegetables
and condiments so beautifully arrayed on the
plate in a restaurant might be put there by
the apprentice with a can opener.



Smart, even for folks WITHOUT a heart
condition -- hrlping to avoid GETTING one.

My ingredients are simpler:

Diced organic tomatoes
Several cloves crushed garlic
Oregano
Marjoram
Basil
Crushed red peppers
Celery seed
White pepper
Red wine
Vegetables as desired

Too many herbs. All are valuable, but not
when mixed together. It's like a child with
a new painting set trying to create a rainbow
by mixing all the colours together: all he
gets is a cadaverous green. Pick a single
herb per dish.




Turn off the heat and leave on
the stove to cool

_That_ is _not_ a safe way of doing it and
were it not
for the preservatives in your canned
goods, you'd be
taking a risk with your guest's' health.
Divide it into
smaller containers if you must, but don't
let it sit out
to cool...you're inviting bacteria in
(you've fructose
and sucrose in the mix and both can act as
bacterial
electron donors).


The pot and contents were at 100'C for about
30min. Enough to murder nearly all bugs &
spores therein. Then everything goes into
the refrigerator at about 2'C


Contrast this with the meals I get when I
go
to *their* places, invariably an English
style roast with vegetables, all quite
wonderful except that some items are hot
and
others cold, and something always goes
wrong
in the kitchen that interrupts
everything.

That's simple ineptitude and easily
corrected with prac-
tice...people today aren't _used_ to
giving dinners and
most didn't grow up watching their parents
do so, so
they're feeling their way forward.


I don't think I have ever experienced a good
woman cook. The routine and boredom of
regular hack-cooking produces very mediocre
fare. And a clutch of women in a kitchen
soon descends into the classic 'quilting bee'
where time expands and the waiting men
starve. Many of my ancestors were caterers
and restauranteurs and a good kitchen is no
artist's studio, but rather a well-run
chemical factory where the head chef has the
absolute power of a captain Bligh. The
pastry chef is a bit of a bitch too. The
only happy person in a commercial kitchen is
the junior apprentice given the job of
killing cockroaches with a claw hammer!




Judging by the amount of booze the guests
put
away, any excess salt & sugar would by
flushed away by 9pm.

If your friends are more interested in
drinking than
food, then why are you surprised their
dinners are
unorganised?

I'm not surprised by their drinking and I
compensate by having a pizza *before* I
arrive at their places.

Cory Bhreckan

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Cory Bhreckan » 19 nov 2007 00:49:25

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VjK%i.1719$Mg1.499@trndny03...

In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.
Actually Chicken Fried Steak is quite tasty.

What sort of steak is used? I'd think something like
a flank steak would get horribly tough if it were fried.

Deirdre

In the South, it would be deep fried suet 'steak'. Very easily gummed.

--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 19 nov 2007 02:42:47

Cory Bhreckan wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:

Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VjK%i.1719$Mg1.499@trndny03...

In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.
Actually Chicken Fried Steak is quite tasty.

What sort of steak is used? I'd think something like
a flank steak would get horribly tough if it were fried.


In the South, it would be deep fried suet 'steak'. Very easily gummed.

Ah, suet steak deep fried in lard, is it?

Deirdre

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 19 nov 2007 03:48:37

Peter Jason wrote:

Spaghetti sauce I make days before by the
following method: Buy a kilo of 'diet'
mincemeat (reduced fat) and into this
incorporate some chopped onion and garlic
and
rosemary. Roll into small balls and fry
these with oil in a deep casserole pot to
a
very deep brown colour. Reduce heat and
throw in 2 large cans of spaghetti sauce
and
two jars of tomato paste and simmer for a
short while, adding a cup or two of fine
cabernet. [sop]

Yuk!

Hm...so you _are_ using canned (sauce and
paste) in-
gredients. Well, yes, that _would_ make
things easier
but it doesn't fly in my world because His
Lordship's
heart condition means that all fats, salts
and sugars
need to be carefully monitored which means
no pro-
cessed foods.

All foods in cans are not worthless. Indeed,
all restaurants use large cans called
"catering packs" that are but larger versions
of the supermarket variety.

When was the last time you had canned sirloin or a
canned baked potato?

Those vegetables
and condiments so beautifully arrayed on the

Are you unable to distinguish the difference between
canned and fresh vegetables in the absence of evi-
dence like an empty can? Canned veggies are _salty_,
they _taste_ salty, moreover their texture is softer
and their colour is different. The veggie with our
meal was grilled peppers...I don't know about you, but
I've yet to see a canned bell pepper still firm enough
to survive a grill.

plate in a restaurant might be put there by
the apprentice with a can opener.

You're comparing apples to oranges...you switched the
discussion from restaurant to home cooking. As I tried
to point out, as it relates to the menu you posted and
the pasta sauce in particular, your "home cooking" relies
heavily processed foods like canned pasta sauce and to-
mato paste. It's a bit disingenuous to say you're making
sauce when, in reality, what you're doing is doctoring an
already prepared sauce to taste.

Too many herbs. All are valuable, but not
when mixed together. It's like a child with
a new painting set trying to create a rainbow
by mixing all the colours together: all he
gets is a cadaverous green. Pick a single
herb per dish.

Too many if you don't know how to use or blend them or
if your palate is such that you can't discern subtle sea-
sonings. Do you, perchance, smoke?

Turn off the heat and leave on
the stove to cool

_That_ is _not_ a safe way of doing it and
were it not
for the preservatives in your canned
goods, you'd be
taking a risk with your guest's' health.
Divide it into
smaller containers if you must, but don't
let it sit out
to cool...you're inviting bacteria in
(you've fructose
and sucrose in the mix and both can act as
bacterial
electron donors).

The pot and contents were at 100'C for about
30min. Enough to murder nearly all bugs &
spores therein. Then everything goes into
the refrigerator at about 2'C

The minimum to kill all bacteria is 121 degrees C (250 degrees
F). Your 100 degree C temperature is only guaranteed to kill
vegetative microbes and is the lowest acceptable tempera-
ture for heat inactivation of sporulators...and that's only if
the sauce is going to be used immediately. You have to con-
sider that even if you did kill the cells that were in the sauce
prior to cooking, allowing it to sit allows new cells to enter
the system (via the air, the sauce on the utensil which _didn't_
get to 100 degrees) and microbial food spoilage life begins
at 60 degrees.

Unless you really are looking to replace your friends, letting
it cool on the stove is a dangerous practice (especially given
that you're using meat in it).

That's simple ineptitude and easily
corrected with prac-
tice...people today aren't _used_ to
giving dinners and
most didn't grow up watching their parents
do so, so
they're feeling their way forward.

I don't think I have ever experienced a good
woman cook. The routine and boredom of
regular hack-cooking produces very mediocre
fare. And a clutch of women in a kitchen
soon descends into the classic 'quilting bee'
where time expands and the waiting men
starve.

Really? You poor thing...you should widen your circle of
friends.

If your friends are more interested in
drinking than
food, then why are you surprised their
dinners are
unorganised?

I'm not surprised by their drinking and I
compensate by having a pizza *before* I
arrive at their places.

Are your friends still in graduate school?

Deirdre

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 19 nov 2007 04:04:13

taf@clearwire.net wrote:

185 posts and counting . . . .

Will no one rid us of this tiresome thread!

You poor dear, just tell me who's holding the gun to your
head and forcing you to read it and I'll ask them stop.

Deirdre

Peter Jason

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Peter Jason » 19 nov 2007 04:39:37

All foods in cans are not worthless.
Indeed,
all restaurants use large cans called
"catering packs" that are but larger
versions
of the supermarket variety.

When was the last time you had canned
sirloin or a
canned baked potato?

Or a red herring.....; I did not say 'all'
foods are cannable.
My father used to have a cache of "Hearts of
Palm" available only in tins and imported
from Jamaica, that was as rare as candied
bees bums or gnats knees.
I simply refused to travel to Jamaica for the
'fresh' ones.



Those vegetables
and condiments so beautifully arrayed on
the

Are you unable to distinguish the
difference between
canned and fresh vegetables in the absence
of evi-
dence like an empty can? Canned veggies
are _salty_,
they _taste_ salty, moreover their texture
is softer
and their colour is different. The veggie
with our
meal was grilled peppers...I don't know
about you, but
I've yet to see a canned bell pepper still
firm enough
to survive a grill.

I like salt. I am always putting more on.


plate in a restaurant might be put there
by
the apprentice with a can opener.

You're comparing apples to oranges...you
switched the
discussion from restaurant to home cooking.
As I tried
to point out, as it relates to the menu you
posted and
the pasta sauce in particular, your "home
cooking" relies
heavily processed foods like canned pasta
sauce and to-
mato paste. It's a bit disingenuous to say
you're making
sauce when, in reality, what you're doing
is doctoring an
already prepared sauce to taste.

Oh really! This is too much! Next thing
you'll want is for the host to turn & fire
crockery for the occasion.
Too many herbs. All are valuable, but not
when mixed together. It's like a child
with
a new painting set trying to create a
rainbow
by mixing all the colours together: all he
gets is a cadaverous green. Pick a
single
herb per dish.

Too many if you don't know how to use or
blend them or
if your palate is such that you can't
discern subtle sea-
sonings. Do you, perchance, smoke?

No. But if I were to advance to within 50
feet of you, Deirdre, I'd smoulder & burst
into flame!



The pot and contents were at 100'C for
about
30min. Enough to murder nearly all bugs &
spores therein. Then everything goes into
the refrigerator at about 2'C

The minimum to kill all bacteria is 121
degrees C (250 degrees
F). Your 100 degree C temperature is only
guaranteed to kill
vegetative microbes and is the lowest
acceptable tempera-
ture for heat inactivation of
sporulators...and that's only if
the sauce is going to be used immediately.
You have to con-
sider that even if you did kill the cells
that were in the sauce
prior to cooking, allowing it to sit allows
new cells to enter
the system (via the air, the sauce on the
utensil which _didn't_
get to 100 degrees) and microbial food
spoilage life begins
at 60 degrees.


(Yawn!) Cheese, ham, smoked salmon etc
manufacturers don't have any trouble.


I don't think I have ever experienced a
good
woman cook. The routine and boredom of
regular hack-cooking produces very
mediocre
fare. And a clutch of women in a kitchen
soon descends into the classic 'quilting
bee'
where time expands and the waiting men
starve.

Really? You poor thing...you should widen
your circle of
friends.

My friends are few, because in the past I
forgot the 3 golden rules for keeping them:
1/ Never work with them.
2/ Never live with them.
3/ Never travel with them.

If your friends are more interested in
drinking than
food, then why are you surprised their
dinners are
unorganised?

I'm not surprised by their drinking and I
compensate by having a pizza *before* I
arrive at their places.

Are your friends still in graduate school?

Only the good-looking ones.

PS: Are you, perchanch, a minimalist?

Gjest

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Gjest » 19 nov 2007 04:42:31

Take Todd's advice.? This is not medieval genealogy.

We are tired of this thread

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com>
To: gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 9:39 pm
Subject: Re: Terrible British Food




All foods in cans are not worthless.
Indeed,
all restaurants use large cans called
"catering packs" that are but larger
versions
of the supermarket variety.

When was the last time you had canned
sirloin or a
canned baked potato?

Or a red herring.....; I did not say 'all'
foods are cannable.
My father used to have a cache of "Hearts of
Palm" available only in tins and imported
from Jamaica, that was as rare as candied
bees bums or gnats knees.
I simply refused to travel to Jamaica for the
'fresh' ones.



Those vegetables
and condiments so beautifully arrayed on
the

Are you unable to distinguish the
difference between
canned and fresh vegetables in the absence
of evi-
dence like an empty can? Canned veggies
are _salty_,
they _taste_ salty, moreover their texture
is softer
and their colour is different. The veggie
with our
meal was grilled peppers...I don't know
about you, but
I've yet to see a canned bell pepper still
firm enough
to survive a grill.

I like salt. I am always putting more on.


plate in a restaurant might be put there
by
the apprentice with a can opener.

You're comparing apples to oranges...you
switched the
discussion from restaurant to home cooking.
As I tried
to point out, as it relates to the menu you
posted and
the pasta sauce in particular, your "home
cooking" relies
heavily processed foods like canned pasta
sauce and to-
mato paste. It's a bit disingenuous to say
you're making
sauce when, in reality, what you're doing
is doctoring an
already prepared sauce to taste.

Oh really! This is too much! Next thing
you'll want is for the host to turn & fire
crockery for the occasion.
Too many herbs. All are valuable, but not
when mixed together. It's like a child
with
a new painting set trying to create a
rainbow
by mixing all the colours together: all he
gets is a cadaverous green. Pick a
single
herb per dish.

Too many if you don't know how to use or
blend them or
if your palate is such that you can't
discern subtle sea-
sonings. Do you, perchance, smoke?

No. But if I were to advance to within 50
feet of you, Deirdre, I'd smoulder & burst
into flame!



The pot and contents were at 100'C for
about
30min. Enough to murder nearly all bugs &
spores therein. Then everything goes into
the refrigerator at about 2'C

The minimum to kill all bacteria is 121
degrees C (250 degrees
F). Your 100 degree C temperature is only
guaranteed to kill
vegetative microbes and is the lowest
acceptable tempera-
ture for heat inactivation of
sporulators...and that's only if
the sauce is going to be used immediately.
You have to con-
sider that even if you did kill the cells
that were in the sauce
prior to cooking, allowing it to sit allows
new cells to enter
the system (via the air, the sauce on the
utensil which _didn't_
get to 100 degrees) and microbial food
spoilage life begins
at 60 degrees.


(Yawn!) Cheese, ham, smoked salmon etc
manufacturers don't have any trouble.


I don't think I have ever experienced a
good
woman cook. The routine and boredom of
regular hack-cooking produces very
mediocre
fare. And a clutch of women in a kitchen
soon descends into the classic 'quilting
bee'
where time expands and the waiting men
starve.

Really? You poor thing...you should widen
your circle of
friends.

My friends are few, because in the past I
forgot the 3 golden rules for keeping them:
1/ Never work with them.
2/ Never live with them.
3/ Never travel with them.

If your friends are more interested in
drinking than
food, then why are you surprised their
dinners are
unorganised?

I'm not surprised by their drinking and I
compensate by having a pizza *before* I
arrive at their places.

Are your friends still in graduate school?

Only the good-looking ones.

PS: Are you, perchanch, a minimalist?




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D. Spencer Hines

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 19 nov 2007 05:39:44

Nonsense...

Those packers and packagers have all SORTS of spoilage and microbial
contamination problems.

DSH

"Peter Jason" <pj@jostle.com> wrote in message
news:fhr0i7$hgd$1@otis.netspace.net.au...

The minimum to kill all bacteria is 121 degrees C (250 degrees
F). Your 100 degree C temperature is only guaranteed to kill
vegetative microbes and is the lowest acceptable tempera-
ture for heat inactivation of sporulators...and that's only if
the sauce is going to be used immediately. You have to con-
sider that even if you did kill the cells that were in the sauce
prior to cooking, allowing it to sit allows new cells to enter
the system (via the air, the sauce on the utensil which _didn't_
get to 100 degrees) and microbial food spoilage life begins
at 60 degrees.

(Yawn!) Cheese, ham, smoked salmon etc manufacturers don't have any
trouble.

Peter Jason

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Peter Jason » 19 nov 2007 06:30:17

<taf@clearwire.net> wrote in message
news:958cdd49-7d16-49d0-9c0d-ff7042e03040@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 18, 7:04 pm, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
finch.enter...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
t...@clearwire.net wrote:
185 posts and counting . . . .

Will no one rid us of this tiresome
thread!

You poor dear, just tell me who's holding
the gun to your
head and forcing you to read it and I'll
ask them stop.

Or you could ask yourself why you (all of
you) lack the self-control
necessary to remove irrelevant newsgroups -
just as a reminder, this
vapid thread is being spewed to:

alt.history.british, soc.culture.irish,
soc.culture.scottish,
soc.genealogy.medieval,
soc.history.medieval

One dimwit decides his whim is worthy of
five different newsgroups and
the rest of you just can't resist repeating
his folly.

Have you no self-control?

Wanna come over for dinner?

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 19 nov 2007 07:16:02

Hilarious!

There is indeed nothing quite so funny as a Net Nanny in Full Warpaint and
High Dudgeon, flapping his wattles and warbling to the max.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

<taf@clearwire.net> wrote in message
news:958cdd49-7d16-49d0-9c0d-ff7042e03040@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

On Nov 18, 7:04 pm, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
finch.enter...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
t...@clearwire.net wrote:

185 posts and counting . . . .

Will no one rid us of this tiresome thread!

You poor dear, just tell me who's holding the gun to your
head and forcing you to read it and I'll ask them stop.

Or you could ask yourself why you (all of you) lack the self-control
necessary to remove irrelevant newsgroups - just as a reminder, this
vapid thread is being spewed to:

alt.history.british, soc.culture.irish, soc.culture.scottish,
soc.genealogy.medieval, soc.history.medieval

One dimwit decides his whim is worthy of five different newsgroups and
the rest of you just can't resist repeating his folly.

Have you no self-control?

Westprog

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Westprog » 19 nov 2007 11:36:51

taf@clearwire.net wrote:
On Nov 18, 7:04 pm, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
finch.enter...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
t...@clearwire.net wrote:
185 posts and counting . . . .

Will no one rid us of this tiresome thread!

You poor dear, just tell me who's holding the gun to your
head and forcing you to read it and I'll ask them stop.

Or you could ask yourself why you (all of you) lack the self-control
necessary to remove irrelevant newsgroups - just as a reminder, this
vapid thread is being spewed to:

alt.history.british, soc.culture.irish, soc.culture.scottish,
soc.genealogy.medieval, soc.history.medieval

One dimwit decides his whim is worthy of five different newsgroups and
the rest of you just can't resist repeating his folly.

Have you no self-control?

If a thread is of no interest, don't read it. Hardly difficult. It's equally
irrelevant to all the groups involved.

Most of Usenet is dross. One way to fill up Usenet with dross is to make
posts complaining about how some other post is pointless and off-topic.
Which is pointless and off-topic.


--



J/

SOTW: "Ellen West" - Throwing Muses

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 19 nov 2007 15:25:02

Peter Jason wrote:
The minimum to kill all bacteria is 121
degrees C (250 degrees
F). Your 100 degree C temperature is only
guaranteed to kill
vegetative microbes and is the lowest
acceptable tempera-
ture for heat inactivation of
sporulators...and that's only if
the sauce is going to be used immediately.
You have to con-
sider that even if you did kill the cells
that were in the sauce
prior to cooking, allowing it to sit allows
new cells to enter
the system (via the air, the sauce on the
utensil which _didn't_
get to 100 degrees) and microbial food
spoilage life begins
at 60 degrees.

(Yawn!) Cheese, ham, smoked salmon etc
manufacturers don't have any trouble.

I'm sure they appreciate your blind faith...

PS: Are you, perchanch, a minimalist?

My friends don't get falling down drunk at meals
so you want to know if I'm a minimalist?! I'd say
it's more that I just, apparently, have have more
grown up friends...the sort who can leave sober
and still have enjoyed their evening.

Deirdre

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 19 nov 2007 15:41:44

taf@clearwire.net wrote:
On Nov 18, 7:04 pm, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
finch.enter...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
t...@clearwire.net wrote:
185 posts and counting . . . .

Will no one rid us of this tiresome thread!

You poor dear, just tell me who's holding the gun to your
head and forcing you to read it and I'll ask them stop.

Or you could ask yourself why you (all of you) lack the self-control
necessary to remove irrelevant newsgroups - just as a reminder, this
vapid thread is being spewed to:

alt.history.british, soc.culture.irish, soc.culture.scottish,
soc.genealogy.medieval, soc.history.medieval

I'm so sorry, but we won't believe you're sincere in
your tantrum until you throw yourself full-length on
the floor and start kicking...simple whinging is for
amateurs, even toddlers know _that_.

One dimwit decides his whim is worthy of five different newsgroups and
the rest of you just can't resist repeating his folly.

Have you no self-control?

Of course I do, enough that I can skip threads which
don't interest me without comment. Now, shall we
talk about _your_ self-control as it pertains to the
need to whine in public about something you can never
hope to change and your "do as I say, not as I do" men-
tality?


Deirdre

Renia

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Renia » 19 nov 2007 15:53:17

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
taf@clearwire.net wrote:

On Nov 18, 7:04 pm, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
finch.enter...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

t...@clearwire.net wrote:

185 posts and counting . . . .

Will no one rid us of this tiresome thread!

You poor dear, just tell me who's holding the gun to your
head and forcing you to read it and I'll ask them stop.

Or you could ask yourself why you (all of you) lack the self-control
necessary to remove irrelevant newsgroups - just as a reminder, this
vapid thread is being spewed to:

alt.history.british, soc.culture.irish, soc.culture.scottish,
soc.genealogy.medieval, soc.history.medieval


I'm so sorry, but we won't believe you're sincere in
your tantrum until you throw yourself full-length on
the floor and start kicking...simple whinging is for
amateurs, even toddlers know _that_.


One dimwit decides his whim is worthy of five different newsgroups and
the rest of you just can't resist repeating his folly.

Have you no self-control?


Of course I do, enough that I can skip threads which
don't interest me without comment. Now, shall we
talk about _your_ self-control as it pertains to the
need to whine in public about something you can never
hope to change and your "do as I say, not as I do" men-
tality?

The problem is Taf is listowner of Gen.medieval which filters through
soc.genealogy.medieval, one of the present cross-posted multitudes. He
is probably trying to moderate the former, which is impossible when sgm
is involved in this cross-posting by our favourite interracial eroticist.

Cory Bhreckan

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Cory Bhreckan » 19 nov 2007 15:58:47

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
Cory Bhreckan wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VjK%i.1719$Mg1.499@trndny03...
In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.
Actually Chicken Fried Steak is quite tasty.
What sort of steak is used? I'd think something like
a flank steak would get horribly tough if it were fried.

In the South, it would be deep fried suet 'steak'. Very easily gummed.

Ah, suet steak deep fried in lard, is it?

Deirdre

Great for osteoporosis, with a vascular system like that, who needs bones?

--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 19 nov 2007 16:01:09

Renia wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:

Of course I do, enough that I can skip threads which
don't interest me without comment. Now, shall we
talk about _your_ self-control as it pertains to the
need to whine in public about something you can never
hope to change and your "do as I say, not as I do" men-
tality?

The problem is Taf is listowner of Gen.medieval which filters through
soc.genealogy.medieval, one of the present cross-posted multitudes. He
is probably trying to moderate the former, which is impossible when sgm
is involved in this cross-posting by our favourite interracial eroticist.

That's fine, but why should correcting his difficulty
with a list be my problem? If he doesn't like what's
coming down the pipeline, then let him install a filter
to remove it. Attempting to silence others because
their discussion inconveniences him isn't acceptable
and having a hissy fit to get that silence...well, that's
just laughable.

Deirdre

Doug McDonald

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Doug McDonald » 19 nov 2007 16:35:08

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
Cory Bhreckan wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VjK%i.1719$Mg1.499@trndny03...
In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.
Actually Chicken Fried Steak is quite tasty.
What sort of steak is used? I'd think something like
a flank steak would get horribly tough if it were fried.

In the South, it would be deep fried suet 'steak'. Very easily gummed.

Ah, suet steak deep fried in lard, is it?

Deirdre

I have no idea what "suet steak" is. Never heard of it.

In the Sough of my growing up days, when I ate Chicken Fried Steak
typically once a week, it was made from what was called a
"Veal Cutlet" which was some sort of veal (yes, actual veal)
which was tenderized by being run through some sort of
machine that poked big needles through it. The meat itself
was very very lean, that's why it was fried.

Doug McDonald

Conway Caine

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Conway Caine » 19 nov 2007 18:55:14

"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hN20j.602$oL5.558@trnddc05...
Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VjK%i.1719$Mg1.499@trndny03...
John Briggs wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
Robert Peffers wrote:
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...
"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:
On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French,
Turkish, Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.
Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you like
to re-define British food?
My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much
better selection of medium level places in the States versus the
British Isles.
I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.
It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast
Food outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.
Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper" restaurants
which supply good food from the medium to the top levels of
gourmet standards.
I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.
Not quite true though.
In the village, (Kelty), we have, "The No. 1 Inn", which has, "The
Clippie's Fare", attached. This is not your, "Bar Meals", kind of
establishment and is self-contained, though part of the same
licensed premises. Note that the Clippie's Fare is so named for the
once nearby Bus Garage made famous by the folk song, "The Kelty
Clippie".
Hear it here - http://www.thetraditionbearers.com/htmfiles/songs.htm

Mind you there is a difference between a Public House and an Inn.
I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the
States, but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.
I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Bear in mind, I live in a rather far-flung suburb (far enough
out that it's laughable to consider it a bedroom community
of Chicago)...things are better and the choices increase as
one gets closer to the city. You don't have to "know where
to look", you simply have to be willing to step into a place
with a name you don't recognise as a brand.

Deirdre
I think you will find that Scotland has many hotels and Inns in
country areas with much better than average kitchens.
Quality is not the sole criterion, Bob, cost also
figures in...it's value for money that's the real
topic here.

Yestereve His Lordship and I went out for a meal...
admittedly outside the 5 mile radius, but we had
other errands to run...we stopped at a small steak-
house (not a chain like Outback) in a town we're
likely to never be again at a family run restaurant.

He had a sirloin (first one since the heart issues
last August) with a baked potato, I had grilled prawns
with rice pilaf, we shared a starter of stuffed mush-
rooms, both of us had salads, dessert and coffee...
(the steak was grilled, Americans don't fry steaks
as a general rule and more power to them for that).
I don't think anyone fries steak. I always remember as a child when my
mother discovered frying steak (this is the next cheaper cut to rump
steak). She was puzzled and asked the butcher, "Do you fry it?" To
which the butcher replied, "Madam, the only thing I fry is an egg!"
In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.

Actually Chicken Fried Steak is quite tasty.

Most deep fried foods are tasty, and lethal.

You want to live forever?

Conway Caine

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Conway Caine » 19 nov 2007 18:57:36

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4740EA00.860712C2@sbcglobal.net...

Cory Bhreckan wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:

Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VjK%i.1719$Mg1.499@trndny03...

In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.
Actually Chicken Fried Steak is quite tasty.

What sort of steak is used? I'd think something like
a flank steak would get horribly tough if it were fried.


In the South, it would be deep fried suet 'steak'. Very easily gummed.

Ah, suet steak deep fried in lard, is it?

No, he's having you on.
As soon as my wife returns, I'll ask her what cut of meat she normally uses
for chicken fried or country fried steak.
I suspect they may beat the crap out of the meat before they bread and fry
it.

Cory Bhreckan

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Cory Bhreckan » 19 nov 2007 19:21:21

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:
The minimum to kill all bacteria is 121
degrees C (250 degrees
F). Your 100 degree C temperature is only
guaranteed to kill
vegetative microbes and is the lowest
acceptable tempera-
ture for heat inactivation of
sporulators...and that's only if
the sauce is going to be used immediately.
You have to con-
sider that even if you did kill the cells
that were in the sauce
prior to cooking, allowing it to sit allows
new cells to enter
the system (via the air, the sauce on the
utensil which _didn't_
get to 100 degrees) and microbial food
spoilage life begins
at 60 degrees.
(Yawn!) Cheese, ham, smoked salmon etc
manufacturers don't have any trouble.

I'm sure they appreciate your blind faith...

PS: Are you, perchanch, a minimalist?

My friends don't get falling down drunk at meals

You have boring friends.

so you want to know if I'm a minimalist?! I'd say
it's more that I just, apparently, have have more
grown up friends...the sort who can leave sober
and still have enjoyed their evening.

Deirdre


--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 19 nov 2007 20:03:22

Conway Caine wrote:
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4740EA00.860712C2@sbcglobal.net...


Cory Bhreckan wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:

Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VjK%i.1719$Mg1.499@trndny03...

In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.
Actually Chicken Fried Steak is quite tasty.

What sort of steak is used? I'd think something like
a flank steak would get horribly tough if it were fried.


In the South, it would be deep fried suet 'steak'. Very easily gummed.

Ah, suet steak deep fried in lard, is it?

No, he's having you on.
As soon as my wife returns, I'll ask her what cut of meat she normally uses
for chicken fried or country fried steak.
I suspect they may beat the crap out of the meat before they bread and fry
it.

This is apparently one of those American delicacies
that I've somehow escap...erm..._missed out on_.

Deirdre

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 19 nov 2007 20:09:04

Cory Bhreckan wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:

My friends don't get falling down drunk at meals

You have boring friends.

I suspect I simply have older friends...they tell me that
after a certain age the allure of drunken insensibility
wears off...probably because their lower backs won't
permit puking without payback.

Deirdre

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 20 nov 2007 03:09:56

<G>

The way a man, or a woman, handles alcohol says a Great Deal about
Character.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4741DF4F.53337804@sbcglobal.net...

Cory Bhreckan wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:

My friends don't get falling down drunk at meals

You have boring friends.

I suspect I simply have older friends...they tell me that
after a certain age the allure of drunken insensibility
wears off...probably because their lower backs won't
permit puking without payback.

Deirdre

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 20 nov 2007 06:06:01

Peter Jason wrote:

I never said they became "falling-over"
drunk. I don't think you will get one of my
invitations now.

* sniff *

S'okay, Peter, I'm too busy right now for a date
with food poisoning anyway.

Deirdre

Robert Peffers

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Robert Peffers » 21 nov 2007 03:24:10

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:47406ECA.71F2A38F@sbcglobal.net...

Peter Jason wrote:

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas"
finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message
news:473F9FF4.E039BA98@sbcglobal.net...

I have to wonder about your menu
however...spaghetti sounds
easy, but what of the sauce? In my kitchen
the pasta takes
very little time and effort to cook, but
the sauce can take
hours of simmering (pesto is easier, but
still requires either
harvesting or purchasing fresh basil)...as
a result, it's a meal
that's only seen here on the weekends when
I have the time to
make it. Are you simply opening a jar?
(And have you ever
noticed how much salt and sugar are _added_
to those jars?)


I live close to town in a very populated area
and anything is freely available (except
quality French-style bread) even at a smaller
supermarket.

sigh> That's not available _anywhere_ on this side of
the Great Undrinkable...which is not to say there aren't
some good locally baked breads, they're just not the
same.

Spaghetti sauce I make days before by the
following method: Buy a kilo of 'diet'
mincemeat (reduced fat) and into this
incorporate some chopped onion and garlic and
rosemary. Roll into small balls and fry
these with oil in a deep casserole pot to a
very deep brown colour. Reduce heat and
throw in 2 large cans of spaghetti sauce and
two jars of tomato paste and simmer for a
short while, adding a cup or two of fine
cabernet.

Hm...so you _are_ using canned (sauce and paste) in-
gredients. Well, yes, that _would_ make things easier
but it doesn't fly in my world because His Lordship's
heart condition means that all fats, salts and sugars
need to be carefully monitored which means no pro-
cessed foods.

My ingredients are simpler:

Diced organic tomatoes
Several cloves crushed garlic
Oregano
Marjoram
Basil
Crushed red peppers
Celery seed
White pepper
Red wine
Vegetables as desired

Simmer tomatoes for 90 minutes or so, add everything
else except wine, simmer 30 more minutes. Put every-
thing through Foley food mill. Return to pan. Add wine
and veggies and simmer indefinitely.

The tomatoes and herbs come from the garden in summer
and from the organic market or windowill in winter/spring.
I don't measure anything, so I've no idea what the quantities
are..."until it looks/smells right" tends to be how I operate.

Turn off the heat and leave on
the stove to cool

_That_ is _not_ a safe way of doing it and were it not
for the preservatives in your canned goods, you'd be
taking a risk with your guest's' health. Divide it into
smaller containers if you must, but don't let it sit out
to cool...you're inviting bacteria in (you've fructose
and sucrose in the mix and both can act as bacterial
electron donors).

Contrast this with the meals I get when I go
to *their* places, invariably an English
style roast with vegetables, all quite
wonderful except that some items are hot and
others cold, and something always goes wrong
in the kitchen that interrupts everything.

That's simple ineptitude and easily corrected with prac-
tice...people today aren't _used_ to giving dinners and
most didn't grow up watching their parents do so, so
they're feeling their way forward.

Judging by the amount of booze the guests put
away, any excess salt & sugar would by
flushed away by 9pm.

If your friends are more interested in drinking than
food, then why are you surprised their dinners are
unorganised?

Deirdre.


You could always try this Bolognese Sauce.

50g/2oz, onions.
1 clove garlic.
25g/1oz, celery, (one stalk).
50g/2oz, carrot,(1 small).
175g/6oz lean pork.
225g/8oz, lean beef.
50g/2oz, chicken livers, (thawed if frozen).
50ml/2floz oil.
335ml/12floz beef stock.
335ml/12floz Marsalas wine, (optional).
50g/2oz, tomato paste
Salt and ground black pepper.
pinch each of mace,clove,basil and oregano.
25g/1oz cornflour
175ml/6floz single cream.

Chop the onion garlic, celery and carrot fairly finely in a food processor
and turn out into a bowl.
Mince the pork and beef in the food processor and add the chicken livers.

Heat the oil in a saucepan and gently sauté the chopped vegetables for 5
minutes, stirring and tossing them till lightly browned. Add the meats and
liver and stir round once. Cover and cook gently for 7 - 8 minutes,
(occasional stir).
Stir in the stock, wine and tomato paste and all seasonings.
Bring through the boil and lower the heat. Simmer, (covered), for 25
minutes.

Blend the cornflower with a little of the cream then add the rest of the
cream.
Stir this into the sauce and lower the heat and cook, under the boil, for
4 - 5 minutes.

You can substitute/reduce any ingredient for lower fat, salt, etc., to suit.

I don't use cream or wine myself but substitute such as yogurt and fruit
juice instead.
Adding booze to any cooking is a waste of booze as the alcohol evaporates
anyway so it is just a flavouring.

Having posted all that I couldn't be bothered cooking for myself tonight and
just had a large baked potato with a filling of cheese and a pinch of mixed
herbs.
--
Auld Bob Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 21 nov 2007 04:20:09

That doesn't sound very healthy...

Either the Bolognese sauce or the baked potato.

DSH

"Robert Peffers" <peffers50@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:vcqdnUACtuJKC97anZ2dnUVZ8qWhnZ2d@bt.com...

You could always try this Bolognese Sauce.

50g/2oz, onions.
1 clove garlic.
25g/1oz, celery, (one stalk).
50g/2oz, carrot,(1 small).
175g/6oz lean pork.
225g/8oz, lean beef.
50g/2oz, chicken livers, (thawed if frozen).
50ml/2floz oil.
335ml/12floz beef stock.
335ml/12floz Marsalas wine, (optional).
50g/2oz, tomato paste
Salt and ground black pepper.
pinch each of mace,clove,basil and oregano.
25g/1oz cornflour
175ml/6floz single cream.

Chop the onion garlic, celery and carrot fairly finely in a food processor
and turn out into a bowl.
Mince the pork and beef in the food processor and add the chicken livers.

Heat the oil in a saucepan and gently sauté the chopped vegetables for 5
minutes, stirring and tossing them till lightly browned. Add the meats and
liver and stir round once. Cover and cook gently for 7 - 8 minutes,
(occasional stir).
Stir in the stock, wine and tomato paste and all seasonings.
Bring through the boil and lower the heat. Simmer, (covered), for 25
minutes.

Blend the cornflower with a little of the cream then add the rest of the
cream.
Stir this into the sauce and lower the heat and cook, under the boil, for
4 - 5 minutes.

You can substitute/reduce any ingredient for lower fat, salt, etc., to
suit.

I don't use cream or wine myself but substitute such as yogurt and fruit
juice instead.
Adding booze to any cooking is a waste of booze as the alcohol evaporates
anyway so it is just a flavouring.

Having posted all that I couldn't be bothered cooking for myself tonight
and just had a large baked potato with a filling of cheese and a pinch of
mixed herbs.
--
Auld Bob Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 21 nov 2007 04:32:24

Robert Peffers wrote:

175g/6oz lean pork.
225g/8oz, lean beef.

Fat content too high - why make the statins work harder?

50g/2oz, chicken livers, (thawed if frozen).

Excess Vitamin K - reduces the efficacy of Coumadin.

335ml/12floz beef stock.
Salt and ground black pepper.

Salt content - messes with the blood pressure, increases
the risk of a sodium/potassium imbalance from the beta
blockers.

175ml/6floz single cream.

Fat again, see above.

You know, sometimes I _do_ get irritated with the auld
goat, but I really don't want to kill him with a single meal.
Welcome to the wonderful world of the cardiac diet.

Deirdre

Peter Jason

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Peter Jason » 21 nov 2007 04:48:51

"Robert Peffers" <peffers50@btinternet.com>
wrote in message
news:vcqdnUACtuJKC97anZ2dnUVZ8qWhnZ2d@bt.com...
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas"
finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message
news:47406ECA.71F2A38F@sbcglobal.net...


Peter Jason wrote:

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas"
finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message
news:473F9FF4.E039BA98@sbcglobal.net...

I have to wonder about your menu
however...spaghetti sounds
easy, but what of the sauce? In my
kitchen
the pasta takes
very little time and effort to cook,
but
the sauce can take
hours of simmering (pesto is easier,
but
still requires either
harvesting or purchasing fresh
basil)...as
a result, it's a meal
that's only seen here on the weekends
when
I have the time to
make it. Are you simply opening a jar?
(And have you ever
noticed how much salt and sugar are
_added_
to those jars?)


I live close to town in a very populated
area
and anything is freely available (except
quality French-style bread) even at a
smaller
supermarket.

sigh> That's not available _anywhere_ on
this side of
the Great Undrinkable...which is not to
say there aren't
some good locally baked breads, they're
just not the
same.

Spaghetti sauce I make days before by the
following method: Buy a kilo of 'diet'
mincemeat (reduced fat) and into this
incorporate some chopped onion and garlic
and
rosemary. Roll into small balls and fry
these with oil in a deep casserole pot to
a
very deep brown colour. Reduce heat and
throw in 2 large cans of spaghetti sauce
and
two jars of tomato paste and simmer for a
short while, adding a cup or two of fine
cabernet.

Hm...so you _are_ using canned (sauce and
paste) in-
gredients. Well, yes, that _would_ make
things easier
but it doesn't fly in my world because His
Lordship's
heart condition means that all fats, salts
and sugars
need to be carefully monitored which means
no pro-
cessed foods.

My ingredients are simpler:

Diced organic tomatoes
Several cloves crushed garlic
Oregano
Marjoram
Basil
Crushed red peppers
Celery seed
White pepper
Red wine
Vegetables as desired

Simmer tomatoes for 90 minutes or so, add
everything
else except wine, simmer 30 more minutes.
Put every-
thing through Foley food mill. Return to
pan. Add wine
and veggies and simmer indefinitely.

The tomatoes and herbs come from the
garden in summer
and from the organic market or windowill
in winter/spring.
I don't measure anything, so I've no idea
what the quantities
are..."until it looks/smells right" tends
to be how I operate.

Turn off the heat and leave on
the stove to cool

_That_ is _not_ a safe way of doing it and
were it not
for the preservatives in your canned
goods, you'd be
taking a risk with your guest's' health.
Divide it into
smaller containers if you must, but don't
let it sit out
to cool...you're inviting bacteria in
(you've fructose
and sucrose in the mix and both can act as
bacterial
electron donors).

Contrast this with the meals I get when I
go
to *their* places, invariably an English
style roast with vegetables, all quite
wonderful except that some items are hot
and
others cold, and something always goes
wrong
in the kitchen that interrupts
everything.

That's simple ineptitude and easily
corrected with prac-
tice...people today aren't _used_ to
giving dinners and
most didn't grow up watching their parents
do so, so
they're feeling their way forward.

Judging by the amount of booze the guests
put
away, any excess salt & sugar would by
flushed away by 9pm.

If your friends are more interested in
drinking than
food, then why are you surprised their
dinners are
unorganised?

Deirdre.


You could always try this Bolognese Sauce.

50g/2oz, onions.
1 clove garlic.
25g/1oz, celery, (one stalk).
50g/2oz, carrot,(1 small).
175g/6oz lean pork.
225g/8oz, lean beef.
50g/2oz, chicken livers, (thawed if
frozen).
50ml/2floz oil.
335ml/12floz beef stock.
335ml/12floz Marsalas wine, (optional).
50g/2oz, tomato paste
Salt and ground black pepper.
pinch each of mace,clove,basil and oregano.
25g/1oz cornflour
175ml/6floz single cream.

Chop the onion garlic, celery and carrot
fairly finely in a food processor and turn
out into a bowl.
Mince the pork and beef in the food
processor and add the chicken livers.

Heat the oil in a saucepan and gently sauté
the chopped vegetables for 5 minutes,
stirring and tossing them till lightly
browned. Add the meats and liver and stir
round once. Cover and cook gently for 7 - 8
minutes, (occasional stir).
Stir in the stock, wine and tomato paste
and all seasonings.
Bring through the boil and lower the heat.
Simmer, (covered), for 25 minutes.

Blend the cornflower with a little of the
cream then add the rest of the cream.
Stir this into the sauce and lower the heat
and cook, under the boil, for 4 - 5
minutes.

You can substitute/reduce any ingredient
for lower fat, salt, etc., to suit.

I don't use cream or wine myself but
substitute such as yogurt and fruit juice
instead.
Adding booze to any cooking is a waste of
booze as the alcohol evaporates anyway so
it is just a flavouring.

Having posted all that I couldn't be
bothered cooking for myself tonight and
just had a large baked potato with a
filling of cheese and a pinch of mixed
herbs.
--
Auld Bob Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Thank you, I will add this to my formula
book.

I always add red wine to sauces because it
improves the colour and thins it down if
necessary.

Peter Jason

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Peter Jason » 21 nov 2007 04:56:43

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas"
<finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message
news:4743A6C6.7EA186C5@sbcglobal.net...

Robert Peffers wrote:

175g/6oz lean pork.
225g/8oz, lean beef.

Fat content too high - why make the statins
work harder?

50g/2oz, chicken livers, (thawed if
frozen).

Excess Vitamin K - reduces the efficacy of
Coumadin.

335ml/12floz beef stock.
Salt and ground black pepper.

Salt content - messes with the blood
pressure, increases
the risk of a sodium/potassium imbalance
from the beta
blockers.

175ml/6floz single cream.

Fat again, see above.

You know, sometimes I _do_ get irritated
with the auld
goat, but I really don't want to kill him
with a single meal.
Welcome to the wonderful world of the
cardiac diet.

Deirdre

Good heavens! Did you know there are
cholesterol-lowering drugs available, and
blood-thinning ones, and anti-arrhythmic? And
even bypass surgery? My dear uncles, after a
lifetime of excess has all these and lived to
over 80. Another relative of mine eats like
a horse and takes to bed a bottle of
Ballantines each night, and he gets plenty of
sleep and is quite healthy. If "lean
pork" or "lean beef" is bad, why not change
to fish?

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 21 nov 2007 05:09:04

"Peter Jason" <pj@jostle.com> wrote in message
news:fi0aav$1ikl$2@otis.netspace.net.au...
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4743A6C6.7EA186C5@sbcglobal.net...

Robert Peffers wrote:

175g/6oz lean pork.
225g/8oz, lean beef.

Fat content too high - why make the statins work harder?

50g/2oz, chicken livers, (thawed if frozen).

Excess Vitamin K - reduces the efficacy of Coumadin.

335ml/12floz beef stock.
Salt and ground black pepper.

Salt content - messes with the blood pressure, increases
the risk of a sodium/potassium imbalance from the beta
blockers.

175ml/6floz single cream.

Fat again, see above.

You know, sometimes I _do_ get irritated with the auld
goat, but I really don't want to kill him with a single meal.
Welcome to the wonderful world of the cardiac diet.

Deirdre

Good heavens! Did you know there are cholesterol-lowering drugs available,
and blood-thinning ones, and anti-arrhythmic?

What the hell do you think the statins, Coumadin and beta-blockers she
mentions are.

Damn, you are as thick as the teak deck on USS Missouri.

DSH

And even bypass surgery? My
dear uncles, after a lifetime of excess has all these and lived to over
80. Another relative of mine eats like a horse and takes to bed a bottle
of Ballantines each night, and he gets plenty of sleep and is quite
healthy. If "lean pork" or "lean beef" is bad, why not change to fish?

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 21 nov 2007 05:12:49

Recte:

"Peter Jason" <pj@jostle.com> wrote in message
news:fi0aav$1ikl$2@otis.netspace.net.au...
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4743A6C6.7EA186C5@sbcglobal.net...

Robert Peffers wrote:

175g/6oz lean pork.
225g/8oz, lean beef.

Fat content too high - why make the statins work harder?

50g/2oz, chicken livers, (thawed if frozen).

Excess Vitamin K - reduces the efficacy of Coumadin.

335ml/12floz beef stock.
Salt and ground black pepper.

Salt content - messes with the blood pressure, increases
the risk of a sodium/potassium imbalance from the beta
blockers.

175ml/6floz single cream.

Fat again, see above.

You know, sometimes I _do_ get irritated with the auld
goat, but I really don't want to kill him with a single meal.
Welcome to the wonderful world of the cardiac diet.

Deirdre

Good heavens! Did you know there are cholesterol-lowering drugs available,
and blood-thinning ones, and anti-arrhythmic?

What the hell do you think the statins, Coumadin and beta-blockers she
mentions are?

Damn, you are as thick as the teak deck on USS Missouri.

DSH

And even bypass surgery? My
dear uncles, after a lifetime of excess has all these and lived to over
80. Another relative of mine eats like a horse and takes to bed a bottle
of Ballantines each night, and he gets plenty of sleep and is quite
healthy. If "lean pork" or "lean beef" is bad, why not change to fish?

Cory Bhreckan

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Cory Bhreckan » 21 nov 2007 15:44:48

Peter Jason wrote:
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas"
finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message
news:4743A6C6.7EA186C5@sbcglobal.net...

Robert Peffers wrote:

175g/6oz lean pork.
225g/8oz, lean beef.
Fat content too high - why make the statins
work harder?

50g/2oz, chicken livers, (thawed if
frozen).
Excess Vitamin K - reduces the efficacy of
Coumadin.

335ml/12floz beef stock.
Salt and ground black pepper.
Salt content - messes with the blood
pressure, increases
the risk of a sodium/potassium imbalance
from the beta
blockers.

175ml/6floz single cream.
Fat again, see above.

You know, sometimes I _do_ get irritated
with the auld
goat, but I really don't want to kill him
with a single meal.
Welcome to the wonderful world of the
cardiac diet.

Deirdre

Good heavens! Did you know there are
cholesterol-lowering drugs available, and
blood-thinning ones, and anti-arrhythmic? And
even bypass surgery? My dear uncles, after a
lifetime of excess has all these and lived to
over 80. Another relative of mine eats like
a horse and takes to bed a bottle of
Ballantines each night, and he gets plenty of
sleep and is quite healthy. If "lean
pork" or "lean beef" is bad, why not change
to fish?

Mercury.


--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

Conway Caine

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Conway Caine » 21 nov 2007 16:06:13

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4740CEBF.94848EB8@sbcglobal.net...

Conway Caine wrote:

"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VjK%i.1719$Mg1.499@trndny03...

In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.

Actually Chicken Fried Steak is quite tasty.

What sort of steak is used? I'd think something like
a flank steak would get horribly tough if it were fried.

News flash from me wife.
It's called "Cube Steak" and it is a cut of meat that has been pre-beaten,
saving the cook a whole lot of work.
Surprisingly tender...............

Conway Caine

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Conway Caine » 21 nov 2007 16:07:17

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4741DDF9.38126136@sbcglobal.net...

Conway Caine wrote:

"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4740EA00.860712C2@sbcglobal.net...


Cory Bhreckan wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:

Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VjK%i.1719$Mg1.499@trndny03...

In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.
Actually Chicken Fried Steak is quite tasty.

What sort of steak is used? I'd think something like
a flank steak would get horribly tough if it were fried.


In the South, it would be deep fried suet 'steak'. Very easily gummed.

Ah, suet steak deep fried in lard, is it?

No, he's having you on.
As soon as my wife returns, I'll ask her what cut of meat she normally
uses
for chicken fried or country fried steak.
I suspect they may beat the crap out of the meat before they bread and
fry
it.

This is apparently one of those American delicacies
that I've somehow escap...erm..._missed out on_.

It's not bad and is a viable alternative to simmering the meat until tender.

Conway Caine

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Conway Caine » 21 nov 2007 16:07:49

"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:GNl0j.7701$B21.4471@trndny07...
Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hN20j.602$oL5.558@trnddc05...
Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VjK%i.1719$Mg1.499@trndny03...
John Briggs wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
Robert Peffers wrote:
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...
"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:
On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French,
Turkish, Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.
Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you
like
to re-define British food?
My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much
better selection of medium level places in the States versus
the
British Isles.
I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.
It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast
Food outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.
Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper"
restaurants
which supply good food from the medium to the top levels of
gourmet standards.
I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.
Not quite true though.
In the village, (Kelty), we have, "The No. 1 Inn", which has, "The
Clippie's Fare", attached. This is not your, "Bar Meals", kind of
establishment and is self-contained, though part of the same
licensed premises. Note that the Clippie's Fare is so named for the
once nearby Bus Garage made famous by the folk song, "The Kelty
Clippie".
Hear it here -
http://www.thetraditionbearers.com/htmfiles/songs.htm

Mind you there is a difference between a Public House and an Inn.
I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the
States, but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.
I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Bear in mind, I live in a rather far-flung suburb (far enough
out that it's laughable to consider it a bedroom community
of Chicago)...things are better and the choices increase as
one gets closer to the city. You don't have to "know where
to look", you simply have to be willing to step into a place
with a name you don't recognise as a brand.

Deirdre
I think you will find that Scotland has many hotels and Inns in
country areas with much better than average kitchens.
Quality is not the sole criterion, Bob, cost also
figures in...it's value for money that's the real
topic here.

Yestereve His Lordship and I went out for a meal...
admittedly outside the 5 mile radius, but we had
other errands to run...we stopped at a small steak-
house (not a chain like Outback) in a town we're
likely to never be again at a family run restaurant.

He had a sirloin (first one since the heart issues
last August) with a baked potato, I had grilled prawns
with rice pilaf, we shared a starter of stuffed mush-
rooms, both of us had salads, dessert and coffee...
(the steak was grilled, Americans don't fry steaks
as a general rule and more power to them for that).
I don't think anyone fries steak. I always remember as a child when
my mother discovered frying steak (this is the next cheaper cut to
rump steak). She was puzzled and asked the butcher, "Do you fry it?"
To which the butcher replied, "Madam, the only thing I fry is an
egg!"
In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.
Actually Chicken Fried Steak is quite tasty.
Most deep fried foods are tasty, and lethal.

You want to live forever?



I'd like to live to be 53.

Eat Grits then.
Lots of Grits...........

Cory Bhreckan

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Cory Bhreckan » 21 nov 2007 16:51:49

Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:GNl0j.7701$B21.4471@trndny07...
Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hN20j.602$oL5.558@trnddc05...
Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VjK%i.1719$Mg1.499@trndny03...
John Briggs wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
Robert Peffers wrote:
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:473B6C57.6BEB0F85@sbcglobal.net...
"Hal Ó Mearadhaigh." wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
jt_stewart@yahoo.com wrote:
On Nov 11, 2:24 pm, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Anything available in Britain includes American, French,
Turkish, Greek, Indian, Thai, etc, etc, etc, food.
Yes I know.

So, would you like to re-define American food or would you
like
to re-define British food?
My definitions include everything available in each respective
country, regardless of origin. And I still fell there's a much
better selection of medium level places in the States versus
the
British Isles.
I think you're probably right, although there are a lot
of mid-level places which are franchises, once you
remove them from the mix, there are still more sole
props and mom-and-pop places than in most UK cities.
It really all depends upon one's own standards doesn't it? Fast
Food outlets
abound in both the UK and the USA.
Well, in my world, Fast Food isn't a standard...or even
an option.

The big difference seems to be that in
the UK there is a far larger proliferation of "proper"
restaurants
which supply good food from the medium to the top levels of
gourmet standards.
I think that depends on the definition of "medium" and
the definition of "proper"...I, for one, don't regard pubs
which serve food as restaurants, no matter what the
quality of their food.
Not quite true though.
In the village, (Kelty), we have, "The No. 1 Inn", which has, "The
Clippie's Fare", attached. This is not your, "Bar Meals", kind of
establishment and is self-contained, though part of the same
licensed premises. Note that the Clippie's Fare is so named for the
once nearby Bus Garage made famous by the folk song, "The Kelty
Clippie".
Hear it here -
http://www.thetraditionbearers.com/htmfiles/songs.htm

Mind you there is a difference between a Public House and an Inn.
I am
told that one can actually find really good restaurants in the
States, but
you have to know where to look and to be prepared to pay heavily.
I can think of at least 20 restaurants, within five miles
of my house, where two people can have a good meal
(quality, not quantity) with coffee (no alcohol) for under
$30 plus tip. That's not "paying heavily" as far as I'm
concerned, that's pretty much middle-of-the-road. (I
can also think of a few where you won't get out for
under $100 plus a bar bill and tip in that same radius.)

Bear in mind, I live in a rather far-flung suburb (far enough
out that it's laughable to consider it a bedroom community
of Chicago)...things are better and the choices increase as
one gets closer to the city. You don't have to "know where
to look", you simply have to be willing to step into a place
with a name you don't recognise as a brand.

Deirdre
I think you will find that Scotland has many hotels and Inns in
country areas with much better than average kitchens.
Quality is not the sole criterion, Bob, cost also
figures in...it's value for money that's the real
topic here.

Yestereve His Lordship and I went out for a meal...
admittedly outside the 5 mile radius, but we had
other errands to run...we stopped at a small steak-
house (not a chain like Outback) in a town we're
likely to never be again at a family run restaurant.

He had a sirloin (first one since the heart issues
last August) with a baked potato, I had grilled prawns
with rice pilaf, we shared a starter of stuffed mush-
rooms, both of us had salads, dessert and coffee...
(the steak was grilled, Americans don't fry steaks
as a general rule and more power to them for that).
I don't think anyone fries steak. I always remember as a child when
my mother discovered frying steak (this is the next cheaper cut to
rump steak). She was puzzled and asked the butcher, "Do you fry it?"
To which the butcher replied, "Madam, the only thing I fry is an
egg!"
In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.
Actually Chicken Fried Steak is quite tasty.
Most deep fried foods are tasty, and lethal.
You want to live forever?


I'd like to live to be 53.

Eat Grits then.
Lots of Grits...........



Life needs to be worth living.

--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

Cory Bhreckan

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Cory Bhreckan » 21 nov 2007 16:52:45

Conway Caine wrote:
"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enteract@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4740CEBF.94848EB8@sbcglobal.net...

Conway Caine wrote:
"Cory Bhreckan" <coryvreckan@NO_SPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VjK%i.1719$Mg1.499@trndny03...
In the South they make 'chicken fried steak' which looks lethal.
Actually Chicken Fried Steak is quite tasty.
What sort of steak is used? I'd think something like
a flank steak would get horribly tough if it were fried.

News flash from me wife.
It's called "Cube Steak" and it is a cut of meat that has been pre-beaten,
saving the cook a whole lot of work.
Surprisingly tender...............



Pre-chewed food.

--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

Cory Bhreckan

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Cory Bhreckan » 21 nov 2007 20:29:57

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
Cory Bhreckan wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:

If "lean
pork" or "lean beef" is bad, why not change
to fish?
Mercury.

It's only significantly bio-concentrated at the top of the
food web...go a bit closer to the original foragers (say to
mid-web) where the cod, haddock and tilapia reside and
the methyl mercury concentrations aren't as amplified.

Tilapia are IIRC algae and plant eaters, so no problem there as long as
they don't eat the wrong algae, pretty boring though taste wise.
Herring, shad, sardines and other related pelagic fish live on
zooplankton so they're a pretty good bet, plush they are loaded with
omega-3 fatty acids.

The biggest problem I see with everyone suddenly homing
in on the mid-web fish would be environmental, not health-
related...the ripple effect of a depleted fishery carries
quite a long distance...right on to dry land, if you consider
the employment aspect.

That being said, I can't quite envision a Bolognese Sauce
made with whitefish.

Deirdre


--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: Terrible British Food

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 22 nov 2007 01:02:38

Cory Bhreckan wrote:
Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:

Cory Bhreckan wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:

If "lean
pork" or "lean beef" is bad, why not change
to fish?
Mercury.

It's only significantly bio-concentrated at the top of the
food web...go a bit closer to the original foragers (say to
mid-web) where the cod, haddock and tilapia reside and
the methyl mercury concentrations aren't as amplified.

Tilapia are IIRC algae and plant eaters, so no problem there as long as
they don't eat the wrong algae, pretty boring though taste wise.

No argument there and they don't stand up to much
manipulation so stuffing the fillets with something that
does have taste can be an aggravating exercise. They're
not bad in a sparkling wine sauce (in this house, that's the
fate of any champagne which seems a bit flat), but on their
own there's not much to recommend them.

Herring, shad, sardines and other related pelagic fish live on
zooplankton so they're a pretty good bet, plush they are loaded with
omega-3 fatty acids.

Oddly enough, so's our orange juice these days...fish oil
is appearing in all sorts of unlikely places.

Deirdre

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