Nobiliary of Count D. Pedro Online

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Paulo Gomes Jardim

Nobiliary of Count D. Pedro Online

Legg inn av Paulo Gomes Jardim » 02 nov 2007 23:22:46

Hello all,

This would be perhaps old news, as it's online for 1 year or so already,
but nevertheless.
The famous nobiliary of Conde D. Pedro (son of Portuguese King D. Dinis,
13th/14th cent.), which reports the origin of many Portuguese and Hispanic
families, along with an interesting collection of medieval (including
Arthurian) legends, is available online at:

http://ttonline.iantt.pt/dtematico.htm

Chose "Elites" and then keep moving the pages forward until you find it.
On your way there, you'll probably also find interesting the nice
collection of Portuguese and Hispanic armorials which is contained on the
same directory.

The text of the Nobiliary is in archaic Portuguese, with easy reading.

This is the site of our National Archives in Lisbon, commonly known as
Torre do Tombo.
Members of this group may also find quite interesting the digitalizations
of original documents available in Corpo Cronologico, dating mainly from
the time of Infante D. Henrique and king D. Manuel (15th/14th centuries)
relating mainly to the Portuguese ultramarine expansion on late medieval
times, but some originals date back to the 13th or 14th century.

There is also some monastery documentation, most interesting is the one
from Lorvão, containing a 12th century codice with transcriptions of 10th
century wills and property deeds, replet with Mozarab names of people
related to the monastery. Some of them can be identified with great
genealogical value, not to mention the rich insight on the life in
Portugal during the Moorish rule.

Regards,

Paulo


--
There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.
(Sun Tzu, The Art of War)

Paulo Gomes Jardim

Liber testamentorum (Mosteiro do Lorvã o)

Legg inn av Paulo Gomes Jardim » 02 nov 2007 23:27:32

On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 22:22:46 -0000, Paulo Gomes Jardim
<darwin+usenet@spamcop.net> wrote:

[..]
There is also some monastery documentation, most interesting is the one
from Lorvão, containing a 12th century codice with transcriptions of
10th century wills and property deeds, replet with Mozarab names of
people related to the monastery. Some of them can be identified with
great genealogical value, not to mention the rich insight on the life in
Portugal during the Moorish rule.

This is the summary available from the site about the mentioned
documentation:

Liber testamentorum
Datas [1116-1117]
DimensãoSuporte Pergaminho, 48 fl., 208x147mm
CotaAntiga CF 92
CódigoReferAlternCota Ordem de Cister, Mosteiro de Lorvão, liv. 49

ÂmbitoConteúdo -
Este códice é um cartulário que recolhe testamentos de moçárabes a favor
do mosteiro, a partir de uma data situada entre 911 e 924. A região de
Coimbra era uma região periférica do Califado de Córdoba, habitada por
duas comunidades que naturalmente não eram estanques, como amplamente este
códice documenta. A língua é o Latim, a escrita em caracteres visigóticos,
o calendário é um misto do de Júlio César (o calendário do Império Romano)
e do calendário árabe (o mês de Redscheb da Hégira muçulmana).
Diz-se aqui que o abade Primo (1066-1085) recorrera ao mestre de pontes
Zacarias de Córdoba que viera trabalhar para o município de Coimbra, bem
como outras informações sobre a vida das comunidades, personalidades
marcantes como o Conde Sisnando, o alcaide de Coimbra, Almançor e o
governo do Califado a partir de Córdova, a moeda, a língua, a escrita, a
arquitectura. Do ponto de vista diplomático, o códice apresenta uma forma
muito antiga de validação dos documentos: a róbora, que consistia em
desenhar no pergaminho uma figura variável, geralmente geométrica, que era
como o sinal próprio e identificador de determinada pessoa.

Available at:
http://ttonline.iantt.pt/

Regards,

Paulo

--
There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.
(Sun Tzu, The Art of War)

Mcs

Re: Nobiliary of Count D. Pedro Online

Legg inn av Mcs » 03 nov 2007 11:44:54

Hello Paulo,

Paulo Gomes Jardim a écrit :
Hello all,
... is available online at:
http://ttonline.iantt.pt/dtematico.htm

This url returns an error for me.
http://ttonline.iantt.pt/ returns an error too.

Why?

I've found this:
Âmbito e Conteúdo:
"Nobreza de Portugal e linhagens dos reinos de Portugal e Castela"
e "Nobiliário de Espanha", pelo Conde D. Pedro;
"Livro de linhagens de Portugal", por Damião de Góis.
as a reference in "Fundos e colecções - Sala de Referência Virtual"

but nothing else.


Cordialement,
--
|Claude Safon, Amateur d'Histoire et de Généalogie(mcsmntpl@wanadoo.fr)|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|

Paulo Gomes Jardim

Re: Nobiliary of Count D. Pedro Online

Legg inn av Paulo Gomes Jardim » 03 nov 2007 12:21:06

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 10:44:54 -0000, Mcs <mcsmntpl@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

Hello Paulo,

Paulo Gomes Jardim a écrit :
Hello all,
... is available online at:
http://ttonline.iantt.pt/dtematico.htm

This url returns an error for me.
http://ttonline.iantt.pt/ returns an error too.

Why?

Sometimes the site is down/limited for maintenance, so it seems.
From experience, I now seem to recall this being more frequent on weekends.
I'm also having problems accessing parts of it right now. :(

Hopefully later on the day, or at least Monday it would be operational.

I've found this:
Âmbito e Conteúdo:
"Nobreza de Portugal e linhagens dos reinos de Portugal e Castela"
e "Nobiliário de Espanha", pelo Conde D. Pedro;
"Livro de linhagens de Portugal", por Damião de Góis.
as a reference in "Fundos e colecções - Sala de Referência Virtual"

but nothing else.

I've been with a printed copy of a Livro de Linhagens, transcribed by our
great historician Alexandre Herculano in the 19th century, which probably
is that one from Damião de Góis. It's part of Monumenta Historica.
I guess it's not online at Torre do Tombo, unless they have uploaded it
recently.

The Nobiliary of Count D. Pedro is online, but it's not easy to go
directly to it.
You have to choose "Elites" on the URL
http://ttonline.iantt.pt/dtematico.htm (under the title "Sociedade e
Cultura Portuguesa"), then keep moving forward throught the pages until
you reach it.
Unfortunately it seems to be ofline right now. :(


--
There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.
(Sun Tzu, The Art of War)

Francisco Tavares de Alme

Re: Nobiliary of Count D. Pedro Online

Legg inn av Francisco Tavares de Alme » 03 nov 2007 12:41:05

On 3 Nov, 10:44, Mcs <mcsmn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
Hello Paulo,

Paulo Gomes Jardim a écrit :

Hello all,
... is available online at:
http://ttonline.iantt.pt/dtematico.htm

This url returns an error for me.http://ttonline.iantt.pt/returns an error too.

Why?

I've found this:
Âmbito e Conteúdo:
"Nobreza de Portugal e linhagens dos reinos de Portugal e Castela"
e "Nobiliário de Espanha", pelo Conde D. Pedro;
"Livro de linhagens de Portugal", por Damião de Góis.
as a reference in "Fundos e colecções - Sala de Referência Virtual"

but nothing else.

Cordialement,
--
|Claude Safon, Amateur d'Histoire et de Généalogie(mcsmn...@wanadoo.fr)|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|

The main page is http://www.iantt.pt/index.html
At the down end left side there is a link for TT Online wich is not
working I do not know why. Probably a temporary problem.

Best regards,
Francisco

Mcs

Re: Nobiliary of Count D. Pedro Online

Legg inn av Mcs » 03 nov 2007 13:42:22

Thanks to Paulo and Francisco,

I'll wait for Monday.

Paulo Gomes Jardim a écrit :
... is available online at:
http://ttonline.iantt.pt/dtematico.htm
...
The Nobiliary of Count D. Pedro is online, but it's not easy to go
directly to it.
...
Unfortunately it seems to be ofline right now. :(

Francisco Tavares de Almeida a écrit :
....
The main page is http://www.iantt.pt/index.html
At the down end left side there is a link for TT Online wich is not
working I do not know why. Probably a temporary problem.

Cordialement,
--
|Claude Safon, Amateur d'Histoire et de Généalogie(mcsmntpl@wanadoo.fr)|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Nobiliary of Count D. Pedro Online (and Cartulary of Lor

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 03 nov 2007 18:29:16

In article <op.t07q5gnvurn6af@moonbase>,
"Paulo Gomes Jardim" <darwin+usenet@spamcop.net> wrote:

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 10:44:54 -0000, Mcs <mcsmntpl@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

Hello Paulo,

Paulo Gomes Jardim a écrit :
Hello all,
... is available online at:
http://ttonline.iantt.pt/dtematico.htm

This url returns an error for me.
http://ttonline.iantt.pt/ returns an error too.

Why?

Sometimes the site is down/limited for maintenance, so it seems.
From experience, I now seem to recall this being more frequent on weekends.
I'm also having problems accessing parts of it right now. :(

Hopefully later on the day, or at least Monday it would be operational.

I've found this:
Âmbito e Conteúdo:
"Nobreza de Portugal e linhagens dos reinos de Portugal e Castela"
e "Nobiliário de Espanha", pelo Conde D. Pedro;
"Livro de linhagens de Portugal", por Damião de Góis.
as a reference in "Fundos e colecções - Sala de Referência Virtual"

but nothing else.

I've been with a printed copy of a Livro de Linhagens, transcribed by our
great historician Alexandre Herculano in the 19th century, which probably
is that one from Damião de Góis. It's part of Monumenta Historica.
I guess it's not online at Torre do Tombo, unless they have uploaded it
recently.

The best, critical edition by Jose Mattoso forms vol. 2 of _Portugaliae
monumenta historica_; the first volume is the _Livros velhos de
linhagens_. I very much doubt these editions are on line.

I too have tried to pull up the Livro de linhagens and the cartulary of
Lorvao on the Torre do Tombo website, but the server kept timing-out. I
will try on a weekday.

On the cartulary of Lorvao, which Paulo also noted here: this is the
documentary collection on which Chico Doria has based his provocative
work on the possible Muslim ancestry of the Maia.

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

Christopher Ingham

Re: Nobiliary of Count D. Pedro Online

Legg inn av Christopher Ingham » 03 nov 2007 21:32:34

On Nov 3, 7:21 am, "Paulo Gomes Jardim" <darwin+use...@spamcop.net>
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 10:44:54 -0000, Mcs <mcsmn...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
Hello Paulo,

Paulo Gomes Jardim a écrit :
Hello all,
... is available online at:
http://ttonline.iantt.pt/dtematico.htm

This url returns an error for me.
http://ttonline.iantt.pt/returns an error too.

Why?

Sometimes the site is down/limited for maintenance, so it seems.
From experience, I now seem to recall this being more frequent on weekends.
I'm also having problems accessing parts of it right now. :(

Hopefully later on the day, or at least Monday it would be operational.

I've found this:
Âmbito e Conteúdo:
"Nobreza de Portugal e linhagens dos reinos de Portugal e Castela"
e "Nobiliário de Espanha", pelo Conde D. Pedro;
"Livro de linhagens de Portugal", por Damião de Góis.
as a reference in "Fundos e colecções - Sala de Referência Virtual"

but nothing else.

I've been with a printed copy of a Livro de Linhagens, transcribed by our
great historician Alexandre Herculano in the 19th century, which probably
is that one from Damião de Góis. It's part of Monumenta Historica.
I guess it's not online at Torre do Tombo, unless they have uploaded it
recently.

The Nobiliary of Count D. Pedro is online, but it's not easy to go
directly to it.
You have to choose "Elites" on the URL http://ttonline.iantt.pt/dtematico.htm(under the title "Sociedade e
Cultura Portuguesa"), then keep moving forward throught the pages until
you reach it.
Unfortunately it seems to be ofline right now. :(

An analysis of_Livro de Linhagens_is given by Adriana
Mocelim in "'Por meter amor e amiza de entre os nobres
fidalgos da Espanha': o Livro de Linhagens do conde Pedro
Afonso no contexto tardomedievale português" (master's
thesis, Universidade Federal do Paraná, 2007), and is
available online in pdf format:

title page:
http://dspace.c3sl.ufpr.br/dspace/bitst ... 3F%3Fo.pdf

abstract and table of contents:
http://dspace.c3sl.ufpr.br/dspace/bitst ... 3F%3Fo.pdf

text (245 pages):
http://dspace.c3sl.ufpr.br/dspace/bitst ... 3F%3Fo.pdf

A genealogical list of the the first Portughese dynasty
is located on pages 208 through 215.

Christopher Ingham

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