William FitzWilliam (1526-1599) of Milton and Brownes of Bet

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Gjest

William FitzWilliam (1526-1599) of Milton and Brownes of Bet

Legg inn av Gjest » 02 nov 2007 17:57:01

From a previous thread I have shown the claim by Robert Browne 1st Baronet
of Walcot that he was a cousin of William FitzWilliam (1550-1618) son of

William FitzWilliam (1526-1599) of Milton, N'hants, and in looking for this
connection, I have found a different Browne connection.

The issue of William FitzWilliam (1526-1599) is commonly given as William,
John, Mary (m Sir Richard Dyre), Philippa (m Sir Thomas Coningsby) and Margaret
(m John Byron)

However there were further issue who predeceased him for in his Will he
states "...[my] sundry children who there is remayning 2 sons and 3 daughters."

In "Queen Elizabeth and HER TIMES, letters, edited by Thomas Wright (1838),
Vol I pp 3-5." there is a letter from Sir William FitzWilliam (1526-1599) to
William More of Loseley, nr Compton, Surrey which has been dated (perhaps by
the editor) as 31 Dec 1558 where William refers to his son Browne and his
hoped for appointment as knight of the shire. The editor identifies this Browne
as Sir Thomas Browne of Betchworth Castle in [s/b nr] Dorking who married
Mabyl dau of Sir William.

There seems little doubt that this is a correct identification. Sir Thomas
Browne is commonly given as married firstly to Mable daughter and heir of Sir
William FitzWilliams of Ireland. Apart from Mable not being an heiress,
this rest fits in the above. Mable must have married young as ODNB states that
her parents were married in 1543. William More occurs as a commissions
jointly with Sir Thomas is another. By 1576/7 Sir Thomas Browne was then married
to Helen (either nee Warner or nee Harding), so Mable had presumably died.
Sir Thomas and Mable's s&h was Mathew Browne born in 1562 (killed 1603 in a
dual)

But the above still does not explain the cousenship with Robert Browne of
Walcot


Adrian



[31st Dec 1558.]
SIR WILLIAM FITZWILLIAM {fn 1} TO MR. MORE. {fn 2}
Sir, I can but for these your lettyrs, and all othyr your gentlenes, render
onto you moste hertie thanks, and to th’e effect of your saide lettyrs, you
shall ondyrstande that apon Saturdeye last, he beyng at Londyn, my sone
Browne {fn. 3} wrote oneto me, that he hade onderstandyng my Lord Chamberlayn {fn
4} began to make labore for his sone to be one of the knyghts for the shyre..
Whereapon I sent to Mr. Cawerden to knowe hys opinion theryn, whose awnswer
was, that for hys owne parte he wolde take no knoledge of annye suche
mattyrs, nor he thoght gode that my son sholde, saying furdyr that oneles my son dyd
stande for the same he wolde not, and that he undrstode Mr. Sawndyrs made at
the desyre of my saide lord earnest mene onto the freeholders abowte
Kyngston, which made answere that theye had promysyd ther gode wylls beffore, &c.
Thus have I certeffyd my sayd sone of Mr. Cawyrden his mynde, and of my owen
also, which is myche agreable to the same.
And I hope with the gode helpe of you and othyr gode frends the mattyr wyll
go well ynoghe on owr syde, &c. Mr. Teylle wil be with you apon Wensdaye
week, &c.
And for newes you shall ondyrstand that yestydaye beyng Chrystemas day, the
Quene’s majestie repayryd to hyr great closet, with hyr nobles and ladyes, as
hath ben acustomyd yn such high feasts. And she perseving a bysshope
preparing himselfe to make all in the olde fowrme, she tayyd there onetill the
gospell was done, and when all the people lokyd ffor hyr to have offryde
according the olde facion, she with hyr nobles returnyd agayn from the closet and
the masse, onto hir priveye chamber, which was strange onto dyvers, &c. O
Blessid by God in all his gifts, &c. {fn 5} You shall knowe more of this matter
by Mr. Teylle, &c. I pray you to commende me and my wiffe, first onto
yourself and then onto your gode wyfe, &c. This Saynt Stevenes night, by
Your as his own,
WYLLIAM FITZWYLLIAMS

{fn 1. Sir William FitzWilliam, of Milton in Northamptonshire, ancestor of
the present Earl Fitzwilliam. He married the sister of Sir Henry Sidney, and
was himself five times Lord Deputy of Ireland. In the great lack of
correspondance at the beginning of Elizabeth’s reign, the present letter has been
reprinted from Kemp’d Loseley Manuscrips. It is also printed incorrectly in
Ellis.}
{fn 2. William More of Loseley in Surrey, who was at this time Sheriff of
the counties of Surrey and Sussex.}
{fn 3. Sir Thomas Brown of Betchworth Castle in Dorking, who married
Mabyl, daughter of Sir Willim Fitzwilliams.}
{fn 4. William Lord Howard of Effingham.}
{fn 5. It is well known that for at least a month after the accession of
Elizabeth, no change was made in the religion of the State. She waited till
she had her ministry settled and her parliament assembled. As the time of the
meeting of parliament approached, she bagan to show more openly her
intentions, and the circumstance here mentioned was one of the first prognostics of
the great change that was to come. “On the first of January, following,â€

Douglas Richardson

Re: Sir William Fitzwilliam of Ireland and his son-in-law, S

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 02 nov 2007 18:43:56

Dear Adrian ~

Good to hear from you as always.

The first wife of Sir Thomas Browne, Knt. (died 1597), of West
Betchworth (in Dorking), Surrey was Mabel Fitz William, eldest
daughter and co-heiress of William Fitzwilliam, Knt., of Windsor,
Berkshire, gentleman of the privy chamber, lieutenant of Windor
Castle, by Jane, daughter and co-heiress of John Roberts. Mabel was
born about 1540 (age 19 in 1559).

Evidence of Mabel's parentage can be found in two different
visitations:

1. Philipot Vis. of Kent 1619-1621 (H.S.P. 42) (1898): 217 (Add'l
Peds.) (Browne pedigree: "Sir Thomas Browne of Betchworth Knight =
Mabell da. & coheire of Sir Will. Fitzwilliam of Ireland Knight").

2. Benolte et al. Vis. of Surrey 1530, 1572 & 1613 (H.S.P. 43)
(1899): 8-10 (Browne pedigree: "Sr Thomas Browne of Beechworth Knight.
[1] = Mabell d. & heire of Sr Wi'm Fitz Wi'ms of Ireland, [2] = Ellen
d. & heire of Wi'm Harding & widdow Ric. Knevett.").

As such, it seems obvious that the Sir William Fitzwilliam who wrote
the letter you posted dated 1558 was Sir William Fitzwilliam, of
Ireland, not Sir William Fitzwilliam, of Milton, Northamptonshire, as
claimed by the editor, Thomas Wright.

Those who wish to view the published transcript of Sir William
Fitzwilliam's 1558 letter may do so at the following weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?id=-tz3W7 ... en#PPA3,M1

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

On Nov 2, 9:43 am, ADRIANCHANNIN...@aol.com wrote:
< >From a previous thread I have shown the claim by Robert Browne 1st
Baronet
<
< of Walcot that he was a cousin of William FitzWilliam (1550-1618)
son of
< William FitzWilliam (1526-1599) of Milton, N'hants, and in looking
for this
< connection, I have found a different Browne connection.
<
< The issue of William FitzWilliam (1526-1599) is commonly given as
William,
< John, Mary (m Sir Richard Dyre), Philippa (m Sir Thomas Coningsby)
and Margaret
< (m John Byron)
<
< However there were further issue who predeceased him for in his Will
he
< states "...[my] sundry children who there is remayning 2 sons and 3
daughters."
<
< In "Queen Elizabeth and HER TIMES, letters, edited by Thomas Wright
(1838),
< Vol I pp 3-5." there is a letter from Sir William FitzWilliam
(1526-1599) to
< William More of Loseley, nr Compton, Surrey which has been dated
(perhaps by
< the editor) as 31 Dec 1558 where William refers to his son Browne
and his
< hoped for appointment as knight of the shire. The editor
identifies this Browne
< as Sir Thomas Browne of Betchworth Castle in [s/b nr] Dorking who
married
< Mabyl dau of Sir William.
<
< There seems little doubt that this is a correct identification.
Sir Thomas
< Browne is commonly given as married firstly to Mable daughter and
heir of Sir
< William FitzWilliams of Ireland. Apart from Mable not being an
heiress,
< this rest fits in the above. Mable must have married young as ODNB
states that
< her parents were married in 1543. William More occurs as a
commissions
< jointly with Sir Thomas is another. By 1576/7 Sir Thomas Browne
was then married
< to Helen (either nee Warner or nee Harding), so Mable had
presumably died.
< Sir Thomas and Mable's s&h was Mathew Browne born in 1562 (killed
1603 in a
< dual)
<
< But the above still does not explain the cousenship with Robert
Browne of
< Walcot
<
< Adrian
<
< [31st Dec 1558.]
< SIR WILLIAM FITZWILLIAM {fn 1} TO MR. MORE. {fn 2}
< Sir, I can but for these your lettyrs, and all othyr your
gentlenes, render
< onto you moste hertie thanks, and to th'e effect of your saide
lettyrs, you
< shall ondyrstande that apon Saturdeye last, he beyng at Londyn, my
sone
< Browne {fn. 3} wrote oneto me, that he hade onderstandyng my Lord
Chamberlayn {fn
< 4} began to make labore for his sone to be one of the knyghts for
the shyre.
< Whereapon I sent to Mr. Cawerden to knowe hys opinion theryn, whose
awnswer
< was, that for hys owne parte he wolde take no knoledge of annye
suche
< mattyrs, nor he thoght gode that my son sholde, saying furdyr that
oneles my son dyd
< stande for the same he wolde not, and that he undrstode Mr.
Sawndyrs made at
< the desyre of my saide lord earnest mene onto the freeholders
abowte
< Kyngston, which made answere that theye had promysyd ther gode
wylls beffore, &c.
< Thus have I certeffyd my sayd sone of Mr. Cawyrden his mynde, and
of my owen
< also, which is myche agreable to the same.
< And I hope with the gode helpe of you and othyr gode frends the
mattyr wyll
< go well ynoghe on owr syde, &c. Mr. Teylle wil be with you apon
Wensdaye
< week, &c.
< And for newes you shall ondyrstand that yestydaye beyng Chrystemas
day, the
< Quene's majestie repayryd to hyr great closet, with hyr nobles and
ladyes, as
< hath ben acustomyd yn such high feasts. And she perseving a
bysshope
< preparing himselfe to make all in the olde fowrme, she tayyd there
onetill the
< gospell was done, and when all the people lokyd ffor hyr to have
offryde
< according the olde facion, she with hyr nobles returnyd agayn from
the closet and
< the masse, onto hir priveye chamber, which was strange onto dyvers,
&c. O
< Blessid by God in all his gifts, &c. {fn 5} You shall knowe more
of this matter
< by Mr. Teylle, &c. I pray you to commende me and my wiffe, first
onto
< yourself and then onto your gode wyfe, &c. This Saynt Stevenes
night, by
< Your as his own,
< WYLLIAM FITZWYLLIAMS
<
< {fn 1. Sir William FitzWilliam, of Milton in Northamptonshire,
ancestor of
< the present Earl Fitzwilliam. He married the sister of Sir Henry
Sidney, and
< was himself five times Lord Deputy of Ireland. In the great lack
of
< correspondance at the beginning of Elizabeth's reign, the present
letter has been
< reprinted from Kemp'd Loseley Manuscrips. It is also printed
incorrectly in
< Ellis.}
< {fn 2. William More of Loseley in Surrey, who was at this time
Sheriff of
< the counties of Surrey and Sussex.}
< {fn 3. Sir Thomas Brown of Betchworth Castle in Dorking, who
married
< Mabyl, daughter of Sir Willim Fitzwilliams.}
< {fn 4. William Lord Howard of Effingham.}
< {fn 5. It is well known that for at least a month after the
accession of
< Elizabeth, no change was made in the religion of the State. She
waited till
< she had her ministry settled and her parliament assembled. As the
time of the
< meeting of parliament approached, she bagan to show more openly her
< intentions, and the circumstance here mentioned was one of the
first prognostics of
< the great change that was to come. "On the first of January,
following,"
< says Fuller, "being Sunday (the best New Yeere's gift that ever was
bestowed on
< England) by vertue of the Queen's proclamation, the letanie was
read in
< English, with epistles and gospels, in all churches of London, as it
was formerly
< in her Grace's own chappel." Happy it was for England that the
change was
< made deliberately and quietly, without the violent commotions that
broke out
< in other countries, where the authorities were opposed to the
rising
< opinions.}
<
< Queen Elizabeth and HER TIMES, letters, edited by Thomas Wright
(1838), Vol
< I pp 3-5.

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»