Introducing myself, and a question about Thomas Browne and E

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terrence White

Introducing myself, and a question about Thomas Browne and E

Legg inn av terrence White » 29 okt 2007 18:35:05

Greetings to the list-members--

I am T.J. "Terry" White, new to this list, and have a question (don't know if it's entirely appropriate for this particular list).

A few months ago, list-member Will Johnson and Adrian [?] had a discussion on the usenet group "The Le Brun Family of Bothel & Torpenhow in Cumberland" regarding one Thomas Browne, who was husband of Eleanor FitzAlan, and M.P. for Kent, in addition to being a member of the royal household of Henry VI (and losing his head in 1460 during the Wars of the Roses).

I believe I may be descended from this Thomas Browne and his wife Eleanor FitzAlan, through their later Lucy descendants of Charlecote, Warwickshire (successive M.P.s for Warwick in the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries). I will show my (abbreviated) lineage--such as I now have it--below, momentarily.

My question is two-fold:

(1) Can anyone point me toward documentation (either in the list archives, or elsewhere) concerning that Thomas Browne and his immediate descendants;

(2) And can anyone point me toward any documentation regarding Daniel Lucy of Jamestown, Virginia (died 1627), who is believed to have been a son of Timothy Lucy (1547-1616) of Warwick (M.P. from Warwick in the 1580s)? This Daniel Lucy (from whom I descend)--if he was indeed a son of Timothy (or from that family generally)--would thus be a descendant of Thomas Browne and Eleanor FitzAlan.

This is a new lineage for me, and I am therefore only just now beginning to attempt to document it. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Terry.

_______________________________________

Here's my "lineage" back to Thomas Browne and Eleanor FitzAlan (through the somewhat hazy Daniel Lucy/Timothy Lucy connection) Most or all other connections shown appear to be fairly well-documented (excepting some of the dates):

Sir Thomas Browne ======== Eleanor Fitzalan (1402-executed 20 Jul 1460) (c.1428-c.1445)

Sir John Browne of Walcot (c.1445-1 Jan 1498), Lord Mayor and Sheriff of London

Sir William Browne (1474-3 June, 1514) === Katherine Shaw (1467-1514)
Lord Mayor and Sheriff of London d/o Sir Edmund Shaw, Lord Mayor, etc.

Anne Browne (c.1495-10 Mar 1582) === Sir Richard Fermor (1492-1552)

Anne Fermor (c.1515-1553) === Sir William Lucy (1509-1551)

Timothy Lucy (16 Nov 1547-21 Jan 1616), B.A., Oxford (1567), & Member of Parliament

Daniel Lucy (1592-1627) Born in Warwick(?); died in Jamestown === Abigail [ ]
This Abigail was described in one unsourced reference I have seen as "the Tanner's daughter". This would of course have been a major scandal back then, and may be why Daniel went to Jamestown (social and financial exile). I have noted that he is said to have married Abigail only in 1617, one year after his father had died (if Timothy was indeed his father). Daniel's uncle would have been Sir Thomas Lucy (1532-1600), of the distinguished Warwick family of Charlecote.

Samuel Lucy (1618-1662) Born in Warwick(?); died in Charles City County, Va.

Elizabeth Lucy (1657- )===Phillip Thomas (1652-1730)

Michael Thomas (1673-1743)

Edward Thomas (1715-1769)

Susannah Thomas (1740-1819)===Thomas Stephens (1730-1818)

David Stephens (c.1775-1837)

Nancy Ann Stephens (1812-c1880)===Smith Alexander (1809-c1862)

Thomas Tucker Alexander (1850-1929)

Lillie May Alexander (1881-1974)=== (1) H.P. Kelly (1876-1925)

Martha Darthula Kelly (b.1915--living)===(1) H.S.White Sr. (1915-1943)

Living White (b.1937) [My Dad]

T.J. "Terry" White [myself]




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Vance Mead

Re: Introducing myself, and a question about Thomas Browne a

Legg inn av Vance Mead » 29 okt 2007 20:37:21

First a start some of the wills are available online for a small fee.
They were proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury and are at the
Public Record Office.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/

Will of Sir John Browne, Alderman of Saint Mary Magdalen Milk Street,
City of London Date 25 January 1498
Will of William Browne, Alderman of Saint Thomas Acon, City of
London Date 01 July 1514
Will of Richard Fermer or Farmer of Easton Neston, Northamptonshire
Date 03 February 1552

Vance

(1) Can anyone point me toward documentation (either in the list archives, or elsewhere) concerning that Thomas Browne and his immediate descendants;

Douglas Richardson

Sir Thomas Browne (died 1460) and Eleanor Arundel

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 29 okt 2007 20:48:40

Dear Terry ~

You might find the information below helpful to your research. Sir
Thomas Browne's wife was Eleanor Arundel, not Eleanor Fitzalan. My
research indicates that the Fitzalan family dropped the surname,
Fitzalan, in favor of Arundel about 1313. Thereafter all members of
the family were known exclusively as Arundel (or de Arundel).

Having said that, I don't believe that Sir Thomas Browne and his wife,
Eleanor Arundel, were the parents of the next generation in your
pedigree, namely Sir John Browne (died 1498), Lord Mayor of London.
So your Browne pedigree would necessarily break at this point.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

+ + + + + + + + + + +
ARUNDEL FAMILY

JOHN OF ENGLAND, King of England, by a mistress, CLEMENCE _____.
JOAN OF ENGLAND, married LLYWELYN AP IORWERTH, Prince of North Wales.
GWLADUS DDU OF WALES, married RALPH DE MORTIMER, of Wigmore,
Herefordshire.
ROGER DE MORTIMER, Knt., of Wigmore, Herefordshire, married MAUD DE
BREWES.
ISABEL DE MORTIMER, married JOHN FITZ ALAN, of Clun and Oswestry,
Shropshire.
RICHARD FITZ ALAN, Knt., Earl of Arundel, married ALICE DE SALUZZO.
EDMUND DE ARUNDEL, Knt., Earl of Arundel, married ALICE DE WARENNE
(desc. Geoffrey Plantagenet).
RICHARD DE ARUNDEL, Earl of Arundel and Surrey, married ELEANOR OF
LANCASTER (desc. King Henry III).
JOHN DE ARUNDEL, Knt., 1st Lord Arundel, married ELEANOR MAUTRAVERS
(desc. King John).
JOHN DE ARUNDEL, Knt., 2nd Lord Arundel, married ELIZABETH LE
DESPENSER (desc. King Edward I).

1. THOMAS ARUNDEL, Knt., of West Betchworth (in Dorking), Surrey, and
Chancton (in Washington) and Shopwick (in Oving), Sussex, Steward of
the Household to King Henry VI, 3rd son. He married JOAN MOYNE,
daughter of Henry Moyne. They had one son, William, and one daughter,
Eleanor. SIR THOMAS ARUNDEL died overseas about 1430-1. His widow,
Joan, married (2nd) before Sept. 1436 John Burden, Esq. They were
both living 1443/4.

References:

Tierney, Hist. & Antiq. of the Castle and Town of Arundel 1 (1834):
chart following 192. Top. & Gen. 2 (1853): 336; 3 (1858): 250-255.
Hawley et al., Vis. of Essex 1552, 1558, 1570, 1612 & 1634 2 (H.S.P.
14) (1879): 731-732 (Misc. Peds.) (Fitz Alan pedigree). Arch.
Cambrensis, 5th Ser. 1 (1884): 219-221 (Fitzalan pedigree). Benolte
et al. Vis. of Surrey 1530, 1572 & 1613 (H.S.P. 43) (1899): 8-10
(Browne pedigree: "Thomas Fitz Allan of Beechworth Castell in Surrey.
= Joane"). Salzman, Feet of Fines Rel. Sussex 3 (Sussex Rec. Soc. 23)
(1916): 250. VCH Sussex 4 (1953): 165-170; 6(1) (1980): 247-259.
Nottingham Medieval Studies 41 (1997): 126-156.

2. ELEANOR ARUNDEL, married (1st) about 1437-1438 (date of fine)
THOMAS BROWNE, Knt., of Tong, Eythorne, Tunford (in Thanington), and
Kingsnorth, Kent, Compton and Up Marden, Sussex, and, in right of his
wife, of West Betchworth (in Dorking), Surrey and Chancton (in
Washington), Egley (in Oving), and Shopwick (in Oving), Sussex, king's
squire, Treasurer of the Household to King Henry VI, Sheriff of Kent,
son of Richard Browne, Knt. They had seven sons, William, George,
Knt., Thomas, Anthony, Knt., Robert, Esq., Leonard, and Edward, and
two daughters, including Katherine (wife of Humphrey Sackville).
Eleanor was heiress before 1436/7 to her brother, William Arundel.
His wife, Eleanor, was a legatee in the 1459 will of Joan Knowth (or
Knowghte), who bequeathed her the reversion of the manors of Pluckley
and Waldershare, Kent. In the period, 1459-1460, he and his wife,
Eleanor, sued William Norton, feoffee of Richard Malmayn, Esq., in
Chancery regarding the manors of Pluckley and Waldershare, Kent,
bequeathed to the said Eleanor by Jane Knowth, heiress of the said
Richard. SIR THOMAS BROWNE was convicted of high treason 20 July
1460, and immediately beheaded. His widow, Eleanor, married (2nd)
shortly before 18 Oct. 1460 THOMAS VAUGHAN, Knt., in right of his
wife, of Chancton (in Washington), Compton, Egley (in Oving), Shopwick
(in Oving), and Up Marden, Sussex, Esquire of the Body to King Edward
IV, 1450-1459, 1462-1475, Master of the Ordnance, 1450-1461, Burgess
(M.P.) for Marlboro, 1455-1456, Keeper of the Great Wardrobe, 1460-
1461, Sheriff of Surrey and Sussex, 1466-1467, Treasurer of the King's
Chamber, 1467-1482, Keeper of the Hanaper, Knight of the Shire for
Cornwall, 1478, Comptroller of the coinage of tin in Cornwall and
Devonshire, Chamberlain and counsellor to Edward, Prince of Wales son
of King Edward IV, 1471-1483, Attorney General of William Herbert,
Earl of Pembroke, son of Robert Vaughan, Esq., by his wife, Margaret.
They had one daughter, Anne (wife of John Wogan, K.B.). He was made
porter of Abergavenny in 1446 during Warwick's minority. In 1453 he
was granted houses in London. In 1458 he was sent as ambassador to
Burgundy. He was a great warrior in the War of the Roses, having
fought in eighteen battles for King Edward IV. He was with the
Yorkists at Ludlow. He was subsequently attainted in 1459, but
pardoned by 1460. Following the 2nd Battle of St. Albans in 1461, he
and Malpas took ship from London with the Yorkist treasure and were
captured by French pirates and held to ransom. In October 1461 Edward
IV promised him £200 towards his ransom and the King got him back to
service the following year. In 1462 he was sent with Wenlock to
Burgundy to make a commercial treaty. In 1463 he escorted the
Burgundian embassy from London to Sandwich, and met King Louis IX at
St. Omer. In 1467 he was in Burgundy negotiating Princess Margaret's
marriage to Charles, Duke of Burgundy. In 1468 he was in Burgundy
when Margaret arrived for the marriage, and Duke Charles sent him to
King Edward IV to communicate to him the statutes of the Golden
Fleece. He was negotiating with the Hanse in 1469. The same year he
presented to the Perpetual Chantry of Burleigh (in Charing), Kent. In
1470 he was appointed one the the commissioners to deliver the Garter
to Duke Charles. He was in exile with Edward IV in 1470-1471, and
returned with him to fight at the Battles of Barnet and Tewkesbury in
1471. He was restored to the bench, and sent to treat with King Louis
IX. He was knighted 18 April 1475. In the period, 1475-1480, or 1483-
1485, John Audley, Knt., Lord Audley sued Sir Thomas Vaughan, husband
of Eleanor, previously the wife of Sir Thomas Browne, in Chancery
regarding land called Walsted and Huddes in Lindfield, Sussex, which
property was formerly held by Sir Thomas Browne. In 1482 Sir Thomas
was sent with Sir Thomas Montgomery to Maximilian. At the time of
King Edward IV's death in 1483, he was with Edward the young prince at
Ludlow with Earl Rivers, Grey, Haute, and others. On the journey to
London, they were met by Richard, Earl of Gloucester, and Buckingham,
who seised them at Stony Stratford, Buckinghamshire, and hurried them
off to the north of England. SIR THOMAS VAUGHAN was tried before the
Earl of Northumberland, and executed at Pontefract, Yorkshire 23 June
1483. He was buried in the chapel of St. Paul in Westminster Abbey.
He was a legatee in the 1483 will of Anthony Wydeville, K.G., 2nd Earl
Rivers.

References:

Wotton, English Baronetage 3 (1741): 5. Nicolas, Testamenta Vetusta 1
(1826): 291. Tierney, Hist. & Antiq. of the Castle and Town of
Arundel 1 (1834): chart following 192. Meyrick, Heraldic Vis. of
Wales 1 (1846): 42 (Wogan pedigree: "Syr John Wgan Knt = Ann sol eyr
Syr Tomas Vychan off Pwmffrett Kt"), 107 (Wogan pedigree: Syr John
Wgan kt = Ann merch a koeyr Syr Tomas Vychan kt. o Pomfrett"). Top. &
Gen. 2 (1853): 267 (pedigree prepared in 1585 by Walter Brown,
grandson of George Browne, Knt., eldest son of Thomas and Eleanor),
336; 3 (1858): 250-255. Nichols, Grants, etc. from the Crown During
the Reign of Edward the Fifth (Camden Soc. 60) (1854): xv-xvi. (biog.
of Sir Thomas Vaughan) (states his brass effigy at Westminster had two
shields of arms, one of which was charged with, Quarterly: 1 and 4, a
saltire; 2 and 3, three fleurs-de-lis, overall a bend engrailed).
Arch. Cantiana, 11 (1877): 373-374. Hawley et al., Vis. of Essex
1552, 1558, 1570, 1612 & 1634 2 (H.S.P. 14) (1879): 732-733 (Misc.
Peds.). Arch. Cambrensis, 5th Ser. 1 (1884): 219-221 (Fitzalan
pedigree). Lewis, Pedes Finium; or, Fines relating to the County of
Surrey (Surrey Arch. Soc. Extra Volume 1) (1894): 227. Philipot, Vis.
of Kent 1619-1621 (H.S.P. 42) (1898): 217 (Add'l Peds.) (Browne
pedigree: "Sir Thomas Browne Knight treasurer of ye household to K. H.
6. = Ellyn his wife da. & coheire of Sir Thomas FitzAllen Kt.").
Benolte et al., Vis. of Surrey 1530, 1572 & 1613 (H.S.P. 43) (1899): 8-
10 (Browne pedigree: "Sr Thomas Browne of Beechworth in com. Surrey
Knight treseror of the Houshould to H. 6. = Ellen d. & coheire of Tho.
Fitz Allan 3 sonn of the Lord Matrevers.") (Browne arms: On a bend
cotised three lions passant). D.N.B. 58 (1899): 180-181 (biog. of Sir
Thomas Vaughan). List of Early Chancery Procs. 1 (PRO Lists and
Indexes 12) (1901): 259; 2 (PRO Lists and Indexes 16) (1903): 268.
Hitchin-Kemp et al., Hist. of the Kemp Fams. (1902): 24 (Browne arms:
Sable, three lions passant in bend between two double cotises
argent). Yeatman et al., Feudal Hist. of Derby 4(7) (1903): 21-40.
Benolte et al. Vis. of Sussex 1530, 1633-4 (H.S.P. 53) (1905): 83-84
(Browne pedigree: "Sr Thomas Browne Treaseror of the househould to H.
6. = Ellen d. & coheire of Tho. Fitzallen 3 sonn of John Lord
Matravers"). Salzman, Feet of Fines Rel. Sussex 3 (Sussex Rec. Soc.
23) (1916): 230. C.Ch.R. 6 (1920): 102, 113. Hussey Kent Chantries
(Kent Arch. Soc. Recs. Branch 12) (1936): 96-98. Wedgwood, Hist. of
Parliament 1 (1936): 902-903 (biog. of Sir Thomas Vaughan). VCH
Sussex 4 (1953): 91-94, 110-113, 165-170; 6(1) (1980): 247-259.
National Library of Wales Journal 8 (1954): 349. Rees, Cal. of
Ancient Petitions Rel. Wales (Board of Celtic Studies, Hist & Law 28)
(1975): 243 (petition of Thomas Vaughan, Esq., to the king dated 1453-
55). Nottingham Medieval Studies 41 (1997): 154-155 (Arundel chart).
PRO Documents, C 1/26/540 (Chancery Proceeding dated 1459-1460 -
Thomas Broun, Knt., and Eleanor his wife. v. William Norton, feoffee
of Richard Malmayn, Esq.: manors of Pluckley and Waldershare, Kent
bequeathed to the said Eleanor by Jane Knowth, heiress of the said
Richard), C 1/59/24 (Chancery Proceeding dated 1475-1480, or 1483-1485
- John Audeley, Knight, lord Audeley. v. Sir Thomas Vaughan, Knight,
husband of Alianore, previously the wife of Sir Thomas Broun.: Land
called `Walsted' and `Huddes' at Lindfield, Sussex late of Sir Thomas
Broun, Knight, attainted) (abstract of documents available online at
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp).


On Oct 29, 10:25 am, terrence White <revenant1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Greetings to the list-members--

I am T.J. "Terry" White, new to this list, and have a question (don't know if it's entirely appropriate for this particular list).

A few months ago, list-member Will Johnson and Adrian [?] had a discussion on the usenet group "The Le Brun Family of Bothel & Torpenhow in Cumberland" regarding one Thomas Browne, who was husband of Eleanor FitzAlan, and M.P. for Kent, in addition to being a member of the royal household of Henry VI (and losing his head in 1460 during the Wars of the Roses).

I believe I may be descended from this Thomas Browne and his wife Eleanor FitzAlan, through their later Lucy descendants of Charlecote, Warwickshire (successive M.P.s for Warwick in the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries). I will show my (abbreviated) lineage--such as I now have it--below, momentarily.

My question is two-fold:

(1) Can anyone point me toward documentation (either in the list archives, or elsewhere) concerning that Thomas Browne and his immediate descendants;

(2) And can anyone point me toward any documentation regarding Daniel Lucy of Jamestown, Virginia (died 1627), who is believed to have been a son of Timothy Lucy (1547-1616) of Warwick (M.P. from Warwick in the 1580s)? This Daniel Lucy (from whom I descend)--if he was indeed a son of Timothy (or from that family generally)--would thus be a descendant of Thomas Browne and Eleanor FitzAlan.

This is a new lineage for me, and I am therefore only just now beginning to attempt to document it. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Terry.

_______________________________________

Here's my "lineage" back to Thomas Browne and Eleanor FitzAlan (through the somewhat hazy Daniel Lucy/Timothy Lucy connection) Most or all other connections shown appear to be fairly well-documented (excepting some of the dates):

Sir Thomas Browne ======== Eleanor Fitzalan (1402-executed 20 Jul 1460) (c.1428-c.1445)

Sir John Browne of Walcot (c.1445-1 Jan 1498), Lord Mayor and Sheriff of London

Sir William Browne (1474-3 June, 1514) === Katherine Shaw (1467-1514)
Lord Mayor and Sheriff of London d/o Sir Edmund Shaw, Lord Mayor, etc.

Anne Browne (c.1495-10 Mar 1582) === Sir Richard Fermor (1492-1552)

Anne Fermor (c.1515-1553) === Sir William Lucy (1509-1551)

Timothy Lucy (16 Nov 1547-21 Jan 1616), B.A., Oxford (1567), & Member of Parliament

Daniel Lucy (1592-1627) Born in Warwick(?); died in Jamestown === Abigail [ ]
This Abigail was described in one unsourced reference I have seen as "the Tanner's daughter". This would of course have been a major scandal back then, and may be why Daniel went to Jamestown (social and financial exile).. I have noted that he is said to have married Abigail only in 1617, one year after his father had died (if Timothy was indeed his father). Daniel's uncle would have been Sir Thomas Lucy (1532-1600), of the distinguished Warwick family of Charlecote.

Samuel Lucy (1618-1662) Born in Warwick(?); died in Charles City County, Va.

Elizabeth Lucy (1657- )===Phillip Thomas (1652-1730)

Michael Thomas (1673-1743)

Edward Thomas (1715-1769)

Susannah Thomas (1740-1819)===Thomas Stephens (1730-1818)

David Stephens (c.1775-1837)

Nancy Ann Stephens (1812-c1880)===Smith Alexander (1809-c1862)

Thomas Tucker Alexander (1850-1929)

Lillie May Alexander (1881-1974)=== (1) H.P. Kelly (1876-1925)

Martha Darthula Kelly (b.1915--living)===(1) H.S.White Sr. (1915-1943)

Living White (b.1937) [My Dad]

T.J. "Terry" White [myself]

__________________________________________________
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Vance Mead

Re: Sir Thomas Browne (died 1460) and Eleanor Arundel

Legg inn av Vance Mead » 29 okt 2007 21:12:19

Also, British History Online site, at

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/

has this, from the Victoria History of Essex:

Susanna Fanshawe married Timothy Lucy of Charlecote (Warws.) who was
living at Valence in c. 1594. (fn. 342 < >)
342 Fanshawe Family, 14; Norden, Speculi Britanniae Pars (Camden Soc.
1st ser. ix), 35

Vance

On Oct 29, 10:00 pm, terrence White <revenant1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks very much to Vance Mead and Douglas Richardson who responded to my inquiry and provided some very useful references.

T.J. "Terry" White

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.com

Vance Mead

Re: Sir Thomas Browne (died 1460) and Eleanor Arundel

Legg inn av Vance Mead » 30 okt 2007 11:04:39

Terry,
It seems to me the weakest link is from Daniel Lucy back to Timothy.
If Daniel was the nephew of Sir Thomas Lucy, it's possible that he was
mentioned in his uncle's will. This is also a PCC will, and you can
download a pdf copy from the same site as I mentioned yesterday:

Will of Sir Thomas Lucy of Charlcote, Warwickshire
Date 20 November 1605

It's not clear where Timothy Lucy lived, but he must also have left a
will, though it's not in the PCC. Calendars of wills are published by
the British Record Society. If Timothy Lucy lived in Warwickshire,
then you should be able to find his will in: W. P. W.
Phillimore, ed., Calendars of Wills and Administrations in the
Consistory Court of the Bishop of Lichfield and Coventry, 1516 to 1652

He may also have lived in Essex - at least it appears that he did in
the 1590s. Of so, you'll have to look at: Wills at Chelmsford
Vol. I 1400-1619

Once you have the reference, it's easier to write to the county record
office and request a copy of the will. Most of them have a request
form on their sites.
Vance



On Oct 29, 10:00 pm, terrence White <revenant1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks very much to Vance Mead and Douglas Richardson who responded to my inquiry and provided some very useful references.

T.J. "Terry" White

Vance Mead

Re: Sir Thomas Browne (died 1460) and Eleanor Arundel

Legg inn av Vance Mead » 30 okt 2007 12:55:17

Terry
If Daniel Lucy was the son of Timothy Lucy, it would appear that he
was born in Essex rather than Warwickshire, since Timothy Lucy was
living in Essex in the 1580s and 90s:

Emmison's Elizabethan Life
LUCYE Timothy Dagenham, Valence, small trader, 1594

PRO catalogue
Timothy Lucye of Valance, co. Essex [in Dagenham] to John Hare of the
Inner Temple, esquire: manor of Clayhall in Barking: Essex
7 Oct 1595 37 Eliz

File of acquittances for various sums of money received by Timothy
Lucy from Thomas Fanshawe (d 1601) as executor of the will of Henry
Fanshawe (d 1568 Lucy was married to Susan, daughter of Henry);
request from Timothy Lucy to Thomas Fanshawe for money to pay
beneficiaries of the will of his sister-in-law Anne (daughter of Henry
d 1568)
1584-5 26-27 Eliz I

Essex Record Office
Michaelmas 1595
(i) William Mildmay, gentleman and TIMOTHY LUCY, gentleman
(plaintiffs) v. (ii) George Henry , esq, and wife Frances, Henry
Slyngesby and wife Frances (deforciants)
15a. of pasture, St. Leonard, Shoreditch, Middlesex
Messuage, 30a. of land, 10a. of meadow, 40a of pasture, 3a of wood in
Orsett and Horndon



Thanks very much to Vance Mead and Douglas Richardson who responded to my inquiry and provided some very useful references.

T.J. "Terry" White

Gjest

Re: Introducing myself, and a question about Thomas Browne a

Legg inn av Gjest » 31 okt 2007 02:36:41

On Oct 29, 10:25 am, terrence White <revenant1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Here's my "lineage" back to Thomas Browne and Eleanor FitzAlan (through the somewhat hazy Daniel Lucy/Timothy Lucy connection) Most or all other connections shown appear to be fairly well-documented (excepting some of the dates):

Sir Thomas Browne ======== Eleanor Fitzalan (1402-executed 20 Jul 1460) (c.1428-c.1445)

Sir John Browne of Walcot (c.1445-1 Jan 1498), Lord Mayor and Sheriff of London

Sir William Browne (1474-3 June, 1514) === Katherine Shaw (1467-1514)
Lord Mayor and Sheriff of London d/o Sir Edmund Shaw, Lord Mayor, etc.

Anne Browne (c.1495-10 Mar 1582) === Sir Richard Fermor (1492-1552)


Unfortunately, your line breaks at the start. There is no evidence
whatsoever that John Browne, Mayor of London was son of Thomas Browne,
or anyone else for that matter. His will points to family connections
in Warwickshire (IIRC) with the name of del Werke, and this may well
have been an alias surname for the family. The lack of information has
not stopped various attempts to connect this family to other Brownes
with desirable pedigrees, as has been done here. This has all been
much discussed in the group in the past (search the archives for Shaa,
the more common spelling of Mayor Edmund's surname).

taf

Gjest

Re: Introducing myself, and a question about Thomas Browne a

Legg inn av Gjest » 31 okt 2007 02:52:03

On Oct 29, 10:25 am, terrence White <revenant1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Here's my "lineage" back to Thomas Browne and Eleanor FitzAlan (through the somewhat hazy Daniel Lucy/Timothy Lucy connection) Most or all other connections shown appear to be fairly well-documented (excepting some of the dates):

Sir Thomas Browne ======== Eleanor Fitzalan (1402-executed 20 Jul 1460) (c.1428-c.1445)

Sir John Browne of Walcot (c.1445-1 Jan 1498), Lord Mayor and Sheriff of London

Sir William Browne (1474-3 June, 1514) === Katherine Shaw (1467-1514)
Lord Mayor and Sheriff of London d/o Sir Edmund Shaw, Lord Mayor, etc.

Anne Browne (c.1495-10 Mar 1582) === Sir Richard Fermor (1492-1552)


Unfortunately, your line breaks at the start. There is no evidence
whatsoever that John Browne, Mayor of London was son of Thomas Browne,
or anyone else for that matter. His will points to family connections
in Warwickshire (IIRC) with the name of del Werke, and this may well
have been an alias surname for the family. The lack of information has
not stopped various attempts to connect this family to other Brownes
with desirable pedigrees, as has been done here. This has all been
much discussed in the group in the past (search the archives for Shaa,
the more common spelling of Mayor Edmund's surname).

taf

Gjest

Re: Sir Thomas Browne (died 1460) and Eleanor Arundel

Legg inn av Gjest » 31 okt 2007 06:39:40

http://books.google.com/books?id=B-gKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA147

http://books.google.com/books?id=PSQFAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA118

http://books.google.com/books?id=haYLAA ... =RA1-PA266



Timothy Lucy is buried in Bitterley, Salop

Will dated 5 Dec 1614, proved 4 Jul 1617


Will Johnson




Will dated 5 Dec 1614, proved 4 Jul 1617


Will Johnson





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Vance Mead

Re: Sir Thomas Browne (died 1460) and Eleanor Arundel

Legg inn av Vance Mead » 31 okt 2007 09:50:55

Will,
In which court was his will proved, consistory or archdeaconry?
Vance



Timothy Lucy is buried in Bitterley, Salop

Will dated 5 Dec 1614, proved 4 Jul 1617

Will Johnson

Douglas Richardson

Re: Sir Thomas Browne (died 1460) and Eleanor Arundel

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 03 nov 2007 12:20:18

Dear Newsgroup ~

In the discussion this past week regarding the Browne family, I stated
Sir Thomas Browne's wife was named Eleanor Arundel, not Eleanor
Fitzalan. My research indicates that the Fitzalan family dropped the
surname, Fitzalan, in favor of Arundel about 1313. Thereafter all
members of the family were known exclusively as Arundel (or de
Arundel).

I came across a chart tonight in which Eleanor's father is correctly
called Sir Thomas Arundel. This chart can be found at the following
weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?id=eNY1AA ... aret+Bohun

The chart, however, contains other errors. I count at least six
errors. Can anyone spot them?

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

John Higgins

Re: Sir Thomas Browne (died 1460) and Eleanor Arundel

Legg inn av John Higgins » 03 nov 2007 19:29:02

No doubt you would count as "errors" the numerous references in the cited
article where the family members (earlier and later) of Sir Thomas "Arundel"
are called "Fitzalan". The article doesn't appear to provide much support
for your "Fitzalan/Arundel" hypothesis....

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval, soc.history.medieval,
alt.history.british,alt.talk.royalty
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: Sir Thomas Browne (died 1460) and Eleanor Arundel


Dear Newsgroup ~

In the discussion this past week regarding the Browne family, I stated
Sir Thomas Browne's wife was named Eleanor Arundel, not Eleanor
Fitzalan. My research indicates that the Fitzalan family dropped the
surname, Fitzalan, in favor of Arundel about 1313. Thereafter all
members of the family were known exclusively as Arundel (or de
Arundel).

I came across a chart tonight in which Eleanor's father is correctly
called Sir Thomas Arundel. This chart can be found at the following
weblink:


http://books.google.com/books?id=eNY1AA ... ogia+Marga

ret+Bohun
The chart, however, contains other errors. I count at least six
errors. Can anyone spot them?

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah


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Vance Mead

Re: Sir Thomas Browne (died 1460) and Eleanor Arundel

Legg inn av Vance Mead » 04 nov 2007 15:31:57

The Visitation of Kent is online at:

http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/ ... index.html

On page 217 you can see the pedigree of Browne.
It says that Sir Thomas Browne married Ellyn the daughter
and co-heir of "Sir Thomas FitzAllen kt".

You can also search the PRO catalogue or A2A and find
several references to Thomas FitzAlan during the 15th century.


In the discussion this past week regarding the Browne family, I stated
Sir Thomas Browne's wife was named Eleanor Arundel, not Eleanor
Fitzalan. My research indicates that the Fitzalan family dropped the
surname, Fitzalan, in favor of Arundel about 1313. Thereafter all
members of the family were known exclusively as Arundel (or de
Arundel).

Svar

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