The Medium Shapes The Message

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
D. Spencer Hines

The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 01 okt 2007 16:57:23

"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message
news:fdhmuu$7qa$1@reader1.panix.com...

Simultaneous posting is when one posts *separate
messages* to a list of newsgroups. The messages
may in fact be indentical [sic], but each goes to only
one newsgroup.

---------Cordon Sanitaire-------------------------------------

Gans, who teaches freshman chemistry at NYU, quite obviously is so ignorant
he does not even understand the meaning of the simple English word
SIMULTANEOUS.

This post is SIMULTANEOUSLY posted to my friends and objects of
Entertainment in the newsgroups AHB, ATR, SMN, SCS, SGM, SHM and UMA.

That's Simulposting or Simul-Posting, whichever one prefers.

When one posts the same message to SEVERAL separate newsgroups in several
SEPARATE posts-- the posts are OBVIOUSLY NOT SIMULTANEOUS POSTS -- they are
SERIATIM POSTS -- and they create infinitely more CLUTTER and CONFUSION.

Gans, like his fellow mediocre academic, Todd Farmerie [taf], is locked into
the mole's-eye, parochial, small-minded, blinkered, academic view of the
isolated CLASSROOM MODEL OF COMMUNICATION and does not understand the far
more innovative, inclusive, cosmopolitan and complex, modern USENET MEDIUM
OF COMMUNICATION.

He is 74 years old -- and is an old dog not able to learn new tricks. taf
is far younger, but has an equally calcified and blinkered mind -- molded by
the CLASSROOM MODEL OF COMMUNICATION within which he works and lives.

Gans Also Suffers From Creeping Alzheimer's... 'Nuff Said.

Of course, his continuing to teach none-too-bright students at New York
University is wearing on Gans and degrades his intellectual capacity even
further.

Gans used to complain about his NYU students' idiocies, illogicalities and
sloppy thinking -- but regretfully stopped when I played his own complaints
back to him -- and others, including his own colleagues, told him he was
dragging down the reputation of NYU by telling us how dumb his students are.

So, it's a vicious cycle for Pogue Gans -- a steady spiral downward. BUT,
continuing Great Entertainment for US.

Further, it would be quite ridiculous and stupidly time-wasting to post an
IDENTICAL message to several different newsgroups, individually -- because
then the entire purpose of communicating with people of different walks of
life and bringing new points of view and new blood to bear on the issues
would be defeated since different folks in different newsgroups would not
see the responses of each other -- and FAR more DUPLICATIVE and OVERLAPPING
posts would be generated.

Ergo, MORE WASTED EFFORT, MORE CLUTTER and MORE CONFUSION would be the
RESULT. A Fool's Alternative... Pogue Gans's Alternative.

Pogue Gans, because he is both not very intelligent and also not very
imaginative, has obviously NOT thought this one through...

Par For The Course.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Illegitimis Non Carborundum

Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum

a.spencer3

Re: The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av a.spencer3 » 01 okt 2007 17:07:20

"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:PP8Mi.127$6q5.665@eagle.america.net...
"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message
news:fdhmuu$7qa$1@reader1.panix.com...

Simultaneous posting is when one posts *separate
messages* to a list of newsgroups. The messages
may in fact be indentical [sic], but each goes to only
one newsgroup.

---------Cordon Sanitaire-------------------------------------

Gans, who teaches freshman chemistry at NYU, quite obviously is so
ignorant
he does not even understand the meaning of the simple English word
SIMULTANEOUS.

This post is SIMULTANEOUSLY posted to my friends and objects of
Entertainment in the newsgroups AHB, ATR, SMN, SCS, SGM, SHM and UMA.

That's Simulposting or Simul-Posting, whichever one prefers.

When one posts the same message to SEVERAL separate newsgroups in several
SEPARATE posts-- the posts are OBVIOUSLY NOT SIMULTANEOUS POSTS -- they
are
SERIATIM POSTS -- and they create infinitely more CLUTTER and CONFUSION.

Gans, like his fellow mediocre academic, Todd Farmerie [taf], is locked
into
the mole's-eye, parochial, small-minded, blinkered, academic view of the
isolated CLASSROOM MODEL OF COMMUNICATION and does not understand the far
more innovative, inclusive, cosmopolitan and complex, modern USENET MEDIUM
OF COMMUNICATION.

He is 74 years old -- and is an old dog not able to learn new tricks. taf
is far younger, but has an equally calcified and blinkered mind -- molded
by
the CLASSROOM MODEL OF COMMUNICATION within which he works and lives.

Gans Also Suffers From Creeping Alzheimer's... 'Nuff Said.

Of course, his continuing to teach none-too-bright students at New York
University is wearing on Gans and degrades his intellectual capacity even
further.

Gans used to complain about his NYU students' idiocies, illogicalities and
sloppy thinking -- but regretfully stopped when I played his own
complaints
back to him -- and others, including his own colleagues, told him he was
dragging down the reputation of NYU by telling us how dumb his students
are.

So, it's a vicious cycle for Pogue Gans -- a steady spiral downward. BUT,
continuing Great Entertainment for US.

Further, it would be quite ridiculous and stupidly time-wasting to post an
IDENTICAL message to several different newsgroups, individually -- because
then the entire purpose of communicating with people of different walks of
life and bringing new points of view and new blood to bear on the issues
would be defeated since different folks in different newsgroups would not
see the responses of each other -- and FAR more DUPLICATIVE and
OVERLAPPING
posts would be generated.

Ergo, MORE WASTED EFFORT, MORE CLUTTER and MORE CONFUSION would be the
RESULT. A Fool's Alternative... Pogue Gans's Alternative.

Pogue Gans, because he is both not very intelligent and also not very
imaginative, has obviously NOT thought this one through...

Par For The Course.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Illegitimis Non Carborundum

Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum



Good God.
And you accuse others of wasted effort and clutter?

Twit!

Surreyman

Eugene Griessel

Re: The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av Eugene Griessel » 01 okt 2007 17:50:29

"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote:

This post is SIMULTANEOUSLY posted to my friends and objects of

Hands up all who consider themselves friends of DSH.

Eugene L Griessel

There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved
by a suitable application of high explosives.

- I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -

pj.evans

Re: The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av pj.evans » 01 okt 2007 17:56:52

I don't care what you call it.
Stop posting non-medieval genealogy here.
It makes you look like a spammer.

On Oct 1, 8:57 am, "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote:
"Paul J Gans" <g...@panix.com> wrote in messagenews:fdhmuu$7qa$1@reader1.panix.com...

Simultaneous posting is when one posts *separate
messages* to a list of newsgroups. The messages
may in fact be indentical [sic], but each goes to only
one newsgroup.

---------Cordon Sanitaire-------------------------------------

Gans, who teaches freshman chemistry at NYU, quite obviously is so ignorant
he does not even understand the meaning of the simple English word
SIMULTANEOUS.

This post is SIMULTANEOUSLY posted to my friends and objects of
Entertainment in the newsgroups AHB, ATR, SMN, SCS, SGM, SHM and UMA.

That's Simulposting or Simul-Posting, whichever one prefers.

[self-centered wordiness snipped]

Renia

Re: The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av Renia » 02 okt 2007 01:40:13

D. Spencer Hines wrote:

"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message
news:fdhmuu$7qa$1@reader1.panix.com...


Simultaneous posting is when one posts *separate
messages* to a list of newsgroups. The messages
may in fact be indentical [sic], but each goes to only
one newsgroup.


---------Cordon Sanitaire-------------------------------------

Gans, who teaches freshman chemistry at NYU, quite obviously is so ignorant
he does not even understand the meaning of the simple English word
SIMULTANEOUS.

This post is SIMULTANEOUSLY posted to my friends and objects of
Entertainment in the newsgroups AHB, ATR, SMN, SCS, SGM, SHM and UMA.

You have no friends.

And people are not objects of entertainment.

Eugene Griessel

Re: The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av Eugene Griessel » 02 okt 2007 01:51:09

Renia <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

D. Spencer Hines wrote:

"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message
news:fdhmuu$7qa$1@reader1.panix.com...


Simultaneous posting is when one posts *separate
messages* to a list of newsgroups. The messages
may in fact be indentical [sic], but each goes to only
one newsgroup.


---------Cordon Sanitaire-------------------------------------

Gans, who teaches freshman chemistry at NYU, quite obviously is so ignorant
he does not even understand the meaning of the simple English word
SIMULTANEOUS.

This post is SIMULTANEOUSLY posted to my friends and objects of
Entertainment in the newsgroups AHB, ATR, SMN, SCS, SGM, SHM and UMA.

You have no friends.

And people are not objects of entertainment.

I disagree. Hines is an object of entertainment. Also an object of
scorn. He would have been a star attraction at Bedlam in days of
yore.

Eugene L Griessel

Truth is not determined by majority vote.

- I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -

La N

Re: The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av La N » 02 okt 2007 01:55:20

"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
news:470195a3.4129536@news.uunet.co.za...
Renia <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

D. Spencer Hines wrote:

"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message
news:fdhmuu$7qa$1@reader1.panix.com...


Simultaneous posting is when one posts *separate
messages* to a list of newsgroups. The messages
may in fact be indentical [sic], but each goes to only
one newsgroup.


---------Cordon Sanitaire-------------------------------------

Gans, who teaches freshman chemistry at NYU, quite obviously is so
ignorant
he does not even understand the meaning of the simple English word
SIMULTANEOUS.

This post is SIMULTANEOUSLY posted to my friends and objects of
Entertainment in the newsgroups AHB, ATR, SMN, SCS, SGM, SHM and UMA.

You have no friends.

And people are not objects of entertainment.

I disagree. Hines is an object of entertainment. Also an object of
scorn. He would have been a star attraction at Bedlam in days of
yore.

Since he considers himself to be a good Christian, I would imagine he'd be
good to go with the lions in the ole Roman Coliseum. But that's just *moi*.
I like a good LOL every once in a while.

Eugene L Griessel

- nilita, waving *hi* to Renia - welcome back!

Truth is not determined by majority vote.


There is an old saying that if a million monkeys typed on a million
keyboards for a million years, eventually all the works of Shakespeare would
be produced. Now, thanks to Usenet, we know this is not true.

Eugene Griessel

Re: The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av Eugene Griessel » 02 okt 2007 02:06:37

"La N" <nilita2004NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:

There is an old saying that if a million monkeys typed on a million
keyboards for a million years, eventually all the works of Shakespeare would
be produced. Now, thanks to Usenet, we know this is not true.

I seem to dimly recall a sketch (Bob Newhart?) where somebody has to
check the output of the monkeys - back in pre-computer days it would
have had to be done manually of course. To paraphrase our old friend
Hines - "hilarious".

Eugene L Griessel

Brainpower is the world's scarcest commodity, and the only one of any
real intrinsic value. Any human organisation can be rendered useless,
impotent, a danger to itself, by selectively removing its best minds while
carefully leaving its stupid ones in place. Stupid fools look just like
geniuses until the fighting starts.

- I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -

redc1c4

Re: The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av redc1c4 » 02 okt 2007 07:08:33

Eugene Griessel wrote:

Brainpower is the world's scarcest commodity, and the only one of any
real intrinsic value. Any human organisation can be rendered useless,
impotent, a danger to itself, by selectively removing its best minds while
carefully leaving its stupid ones in place. Stupid fools look just like
geniuses until the fighting starts.

where did you get this quote?

redc1c4,
who knows wisdom when he sees it.... (usually. %-)
--
"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."

Army Officer's Guide

Eugene Griessel

Re: The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av Eugene Griessel » 02 okt 2007 07:22:36

redc1c4 <redc1c4@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:

Eugene Griessel wrote:

Brainpower is the world's scarcest commodity, and the only one of any
real intrinsic value. Any human organisation can be rendered useless,
impotent, a danger to itself, by selectively removing its best minds while
carefully leaving its stupid ones in place. Stupid fools look just like
geniuses until the fighting starts.

where did you get this quote?

Not a clue. Probably washed up in NetBSD's quote collector at some
stage.

Eugene L Griessel

What's the use of having power if you don't plan to abuse it?

- I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -

redc1c4

Re: The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av redc1c4 » 02 okt 2007 07:29:14

Eugene Griessel wrote:
redc1c4 <redc1c4@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:

Eugene Griessel wrote:

Brainpower is the world's scarcest commodity, and the only one of any
real intrinsic value. Any human organisation can be rendered useless,
impotent, a danger to itself, by selectively removing its best minds while
carefully leaving its stupid ones in place. Stupid fools look just like
geniuses until the fighting starts.

where did you get this quote?

Not a clue. Probably washed up in NetBSD's quote collector at some
stage.

Eugene L Griessel

What's the use of having power if you don't plan to abuse it?

- I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -

then i'll just steal it... since it's morning there (guess) i'll have a drink
in your honor.... you can catch up at quitting time. %-)

redc1c4,
regards from Lost Angels!
--
"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."

Army Officer's Guide

redc1c4

Re: The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av redc1c4 » 02 okt 2007 07:41:00

Eugene Griessel wrote:
redc1c4 <redc1c4@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:

Eugene Griessel wrote:

Brainpower is the world's scarcest commodity, and the only one of any
real intrinsic value. Any human organisation can be rendered useless,
impotent, a danger to itself, by selectively removing its best minds while
carefully leaving its stupid ones in place. Stupid fools look just like
geniuses until the fighting starts.

where did you get this quote?

Not a clue. Probably washed up in NetBSD's quote collector at some
stage.

<NetBSD?> .....(net search................ gee thanks.

redc1c4,
like i don't have enough to learn. %-)
--
"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."

Army Officer's Guide

Eugene Griessel

Re: The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av Eugene Griessel » 02 okt 2007 08:12:59

redc1c4 <redc1c4@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:

Eugene Griessel wrote:

redc1c4 <redc1c4@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:

Eugene Griessel wrote:

Brainpower is the world's scarcest commodity, and the only one of any
real intrinsic value. Any human organisation can be rendered useless,
impotent, a danger to itself, by selectively removing its best minds while
carefully leaving its stupid ones in place. Stupid fools look just like
geniuses until the fighting starts.

where did you get this quote?

Not a clue. Probably washed up in NetBSD's quote collector at some
stage.

NetBSD?> .....(net search................ gee thanks.

Operating system - a Unix flavour. We use it on our mailing and Web
machines. It has a utility which collects quotes (most of them fairly
obscene) from the NetBSD community. It quotes one of these everytime
I log on.

F'rinstance:

----

NetBSD/i386 (sparkle) (ttyp3)

login: eugene
Password:
Last login: Tue Oct 2 09:10:47 2007 from 192.168.2.130
Copyright (c) 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002
The NetBSD Foundation, Inc. All rights reserved.
Copyright (c) 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1993, 1994
The Regents of the University of California. All rights
reserved.

NetBSD 1.6.1 (TINKLE) #1: Sun Sep 28 16:33:49 SAST 2003
You have new mail.
Remember that whatever misfortune may be your lot, it could only be
worse in Cleveland.
-- National Lampoon, "Deteriorata"
<eugene@sparkle>$

------

Eugene L Griessel

There is always an easy solution to every human problem
- neat, plausible and wrong.

- I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -

Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Re: The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av Deirdre Sholto Douglas » 02 okt 2007 15:03:17

Eugene Griessel wrote:
redc1c4 <redc1c4@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:

Eugene Griessel wrote:

Brainpower is the world's scarcest commodity, and the only one of any
real intrinsic value. Any human organisation can be rendered useless,
impotent, a danger to itself, by selectively removing its best minds while
carefully leaving its stupid ones in place. Stupid fools look just like
geniuses until the fighting starts.

where did you get this quote?

Not a clue. Probably washed up in NetBSD's quote collector at some
stage.

Looks like something Robert Heinlein (or Lazarus Long)
would say...

Deirdre

Larry Swain

Re: The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av Larry Swain » 02 okt 2007 17:50:49

a.spencer3 wrote:
"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:PP8Mi.127$6q5.665@eagle.america.net...

"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> wrote in message
news:fdhmuu$7qa$1@reader1.panix.com...


Simultaneous posting is when one posts *separate
messages* to a list of newsgroups. The messages
may in fact be indentical [sic], but each goes to only
one newsgroup.

---------Cordon Sanitaire-------------------------------------

Gans, who teaches freshman chemistry at NYU, quite obviously is so

ignorant

he does not even understand the meaning of the simple English word
SIMULTANEOUS.

This post is SIMULTANEOUSLY posted to my friends and objects of
Entertainment in the newsgroups AHB, ATR, SMN, SCS, SGM, SHM and UMA.

That's Simulposting or Simul-Posting, whichever one prefers.

When one posts the same message to SEVERAL separate newsgroups in several
SEPARATE posts-- the posts are OBVIOUSLY NOT SIMULTANEOUS POSTS -- they

are

SERIATIM POSTS -- and they create infinitely more CLUTTER and CONFUSION.

Gans, like his fellow mediocre academic, Todd Farmerie [taf], is locked

into

the mole's-eye, parochial, small-minded, blinkered, academic view of the
isolated CLASSROOM MODEL OF COMMUNICATION and does not understand the far
more innovative, inclusive, cosmopolitan and complex, modern USENET MEDIUM
OF COMMUNICATION.

He is 74 years old -- and is an old dog not able to learn new tricks. taf
is far younger, but has an equally calcified and blinkered mind -- molded

by

the CLASSROOM MODEL OF COMMUNICATION within which he works and lives.

Gans Also Suffers From Creeping Alzheimer's... 'Nuff Said.

Of course, his continuing to teach none-too-bright students at New York
University is wearing on Gans and degrades his intellectual capacity even
further.

Gans used to complain about his NYU students' idiocies, illogicalities and
sloppy thinking -- but regretfully stopped when I played his own

complaints

back to him -- and others, including his own colleagues, told him he was
dragging down the reputation of NYU by telling us how dumb his students

are.

So, it's a vicious cycle for Pogue Gans -- a steady spiral downward. BUT,
continuing Great Entertainment for US.

Further, it would be quite ridiculous and stupidly time-wasting to post an
IDENTICAL message to several different newsgroups, individually -- because
then the entire purpose of communicating with people of different walks of
life and bringing new points of view and new blood to bear on the issues
would be defeated since different folks in different newsgroups would not
see the responses of each other -- and FAR more DUPLICATIVE and

OVERLAPPING

posts would be generated.

Ergo, MORE WASTED EFFORT, MORE CLUTTER and MORE CONFUSION would be the
RESULT. A Fool's Alternative... Pogue Gans's Alternative.

Pogue Gans, because he is both not very intelligent and also not very
imaginative, has obviously NOT thought this one through...

Par For The Course.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Illegitimis Non Carborundum

Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum




Good God.
And you accuse others of wasted effort and clutter?

Twit!

Surreyman


Not only that but he's wrong and obviously misunderstands how the

Internet and Usenet work, illustrating that most of his criticisms of
Paul actually are mere projections of his frustrations with himself.

Jack Linthicum

Re: The Medium Shapes The Message

Legg inn av Jack Linthicum » 02 okt 2007 17:59:46

On Oct 2, 12:50 pm, Larry Swain <gi...@poetic.com> wrote:
a.spencer3 wrote:
"D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:PP8Mi.127$6q5.665@eagle.america.net...

"Paul J Gans" <g...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:fdhmuu$7qa$1@reader1.panix.com...

Simultaneous posting is when one posts *separate
messages* to a list of newsgroups. The messages
may in fact be indentical [sic], but each goes to only
one newsgroup.

---------Cordon Sanitaire-------------------------------------

Gans, who teaches freshman chemistry at NYU, quite obviously is so

ignorant

he does not even understand the meaning of the simple English word
SIMULTANEOUS.

This post is SIMULTANEOUSLY posted to my friends and objects of
Entertainment in the newsgroups AHB, ATR, SMN, SCS, SGM, SHM and UMA.

That's Simulposting or Simul-Posting, whichever one prefers.

When one posts the same message to SEVERAL separate newsgroups in several
SEPARATE posts-- the posts are OBVIOUSLY NOT SIMULTANEOUS POSTS -- they

are

SERIATIM POSTS -- and they create infinitely more CLUTTER and CONFUSION.

Gans, like his fellow mediocre academic, Todd Farmerie [taf], is locked

into

the mole's-eye, parochial, small-minded, blinkered, academic view of the
isolated CLASSROOM MODEL OF COMMUNICATION and does not understand the far
more innovative, inclusive, cosmopolitan and complex, modern USENET MEDIUM
OF COMMUNICATION.

He is 74 years old -- and is an old dog not able to learn new tricks. taf
is far younger, but has an equally calcified and blinkered mind -- molded

by

the CLASSROOM MODEL OF COMMUNICATION within which he works and lives.

Gans Also Suffers From Creeping Alzheimer's... 'Nuff Said.

Of course, his continuing to teach none-too-bright students at New York
University is wearing on Gans and degrades his intellectual capacity even
further.

Gans used to complain about his NYU students' idiocies, illogicalities and
sloppy thinking -- but regretfully stopped when I played his own

complaints

back to him -- and others, including his own colleagues, told him he was
dragging down the reputation of NYU by telling us how dumb his students

are.

So, it's a vicious cycle for Pogue Gans -- a steady spiral downward. BUT,
continuing Great Entertainment for US.

Further, it would be quite ridiculous and stupidly time-wasting to post an
IDENTICAL message to several different newsgroups, individually -- because
then the entire purpose of communicating with people of different walks of
life and bringing new points of view and new blood to bear on the issues
would be defeated since different folks in different newsgroups would not
see the responses of each other -- and FAR more DUPLICATIVE and

OVERLAPPING

posts would be generated.

Ergo, MORE WASTED EFFORT, MORE CLUTTER and MORE CONFUSION would be the
RESULT. A Fool's Alternative... Pogue Gans's Alternative.

Pogue Gans, because he is both not very intelligent and also not very
imaginative, has obviously NOT thought this one through...

Par For The Course.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Illegitimis Non Carborundum

Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum

Good God.
And you accuse others of wasted effort and clutter?

Twit!

Surreyman

Not only that but he's wrong and obviously misunderstands how the
Internet and Usenet work, illustrating that most of his criticisms of
Paul actually are mere projections of his frustrations with himself.

That and the fact that he can't remember which post or newsgroup he
wishes to respond to, often starting a new thread because of the
confusion that exists within his head. CF he has posted the seven
groups his pseudo-profound demonstration of his Stevensian grasp of
the Internet. I will remove thos that I don't want to see on any
replies from the Hines sewing circle.

Svar

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