Whereabouts of the Lancelot Mansfield crest

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John Brandon

Whereabouts of the Lancelot Mansfield crest

Legg inn av John Brandon » 28 sep 2007 21:12:23

Is the current whereabouts known for the grant of the crest of
Lancelot Mansfield (described in an early issue of the _NEHGR_)? If
not, it looks like a reference to it was made in some past issue of
the _Bulletin of the Connecticut Historical Society_ ...

http://books.google.com/books?q=%22lanc ... arch+Books

mhollick@mac.com

Re: Whereabouts of the Lancelot Mansfield crest

Legg inn av mhollick@mac.com » 04 okt 2007 20:13:25

On Sep 28, 4:12 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Is the current whereabouts known for the grant of the crest of
Lancelot Mansfield (described in an early issue of the _NEHGR_)? If
not, it looks like a reference to it was made in some past issue of
the _Bulletin of the Connecticut Historical Society_ ...

http://books.google.com/books?q=%22lanc ... arch+Books

Connecticut Historical Society Bulletin, Vol. 7, no. 2 (1941), pp.
10-12:

An ancient manuscript was presented to the Society a few years ago
with the following account of its history.

"This Patent for A Crest to the Mansfield Coat of Arms has been in
possession of the Windsor branch of the Phelps family "time out of
mind," and is now presented to the Conn. Hist. Society by Mr. Daniel
Phelps, who received it from his father, the late Hiram Phelps of
Windsor. Sarah Phelps, a granddaughter of Mr. William, the emigrant,
married John Mansfied, 1683; he died before his wife and none of his
name succeeded him in Windsor. His widow probably left this heraldic
parchment with the Phelps family."

The parchment measures about nineteen by sixteen inches. The writing
is in the Old English, black letter, court hand. The first initial
letter is large and on a painted background. A top border one and a
half inches wide carries a painted vine and flowers. At the left on a
blank margin four and a half inches wide, the arms and crest are
painted five and half inches in height. The signature is written with
the fold at the bottom of the parchment. The label, which passes
through the fold, is present; but the seal that was doubtless attached
to it is missing. The document reads as follows:

To all and singular aswell nobles and gentils as others to whome these
presentes shall come be seene heard read & understood Willm. Flower
Esquire otherwise called Norroy principall herald and kinge of Armes
of the East west and North partes of the Realme of England from the
river of Trent northward Sendeth greetings in our Lord God ever-
lastinge. Whereas Lancelot Manfeld of Skirpenbeck in the Countie of
York Esquire is well borne and descended of worthie progenitors
bearinge signes and tokens of their race and gentrie called Armes
which likewise unto him are due by just descent and prerogative of
birth from his auncestors: He yet not havinge of any Creast or
cognoysance formerly belonginge unto his auncient Armes as unto very
meny auncient Coates of Arms [ ] none hath [ ] red me the said
Norroy kinge of Armes to assigne unto his said auncient Armes a Creast
or Cognoyasance meete and lawfull to be boren without prejudice or
offense to any other person. In consideration whereof for a further
declaration of the worthinesse of the said Lancelot Manfeld and at his
instant request I the said Norroy kinge of Armes by virtue of myne
office and the power and authoritie to me committed by letters
patentes under the g reate seale of England have assigned given and
granted unto the said Lancelot Manfeld to his auncient Armes beinge
Gueules a bend cotized argent betweene six Crosse-crosselets fiche
gold: for his Creast or Cognoysance upon the healme of a torse or
wreathe argent and gueules A mans arme the sleeve asure turned by
cuffe band ermune the hand proper colour houldinge a Clube gold: with
Mantelles thereunto aiacint gueules doubled or syned argent. Which
Armes and Creast or Cognoysance and all part and parcel thereof I the
said Norroy kinge of Armes do by these presentes ratifie confirme give
and graunt unto the said Lancelot Manfeld his ofspringe and posteritie
for ever: he and they the same to have hold use beare emor and show
fourth at all tymes and for ever hereafter in shild cotearmere penon
standard seale signet glassewyndowes buildings or any plate jewelles
or household stuff with their distinctions and differences due and
accustomed accordinge to the laudable custome and usage of this realme
of England touchinge the bearinge of armes at his and their libertie
and pleasure without the impediment lett or interruption of any person
or persons. In witnesse whereof I the said Norroy kinge of Armes have
hereunto subscribed my name with myne owne hand and sette to the seal
of myne office the twentieth day of September in the yere of our Lord
God One thousand five hundred sixtie three; and in the fifte yere of
the reigne of our most gracious Sovereigne lady Elizabeth by the grace
of God Queene of England France and Ireland Defender of the faith,
etc.

Wylliam Flower, Esquire

John Brandon

Re: Whereabouts of the Lancelot Mansfield crest

Legg inn av John Brandon » 04 okt 2007 21:08:18

Thanks, Martin, for checking this out. Very interesting indeed.

You should consider writing up a note for the _Register_. A picture
of the document would be nice, as well!

"This Patent for A Crest to the Mansfield Coat of Arms has been in
possession of the Windsor branch of the Phelps family "time out of
mind," and is now presented to the Conn. Hist. Society by Mr. Daniel
Phelps, who received it from his father, the late Hiram Phelps of
Windsor. Sarah Phelps, a granddaughter of Mr. William, the emigrant,
married John Mansfied, 1683; he died before his wife and none of his
name succeeded him in Windsor. His widow probably left this heraldic
parchment with the Phelps family."

Very interesting that this Daniel Phelps apparently was not even aware
he was a Mansfield descendant. Our article traced the line down to
Hiram Phelps, father of said Daniel. After the article appeared, I
also received an email from a descendant of (? Sarah) Mansfield who
married Mr. Hutchinson, so there certainly are living descendants of
John Mansfield of Windsor, CT. Paul Reed traced one of them, a
Lancelot Phelps who's a noted architect or city planner in New
Hampshire or Vermont, I believe.

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Whereabouts of the Lancelot Mansfield crest

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 04 okt 2007 22:17:13

In article <1191525205.146170.308350@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
"mhollick@mac.com" <mhollick@mac.com> wrote:

On Sep 28, 4:12 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Is the current whereabouts known for the grant of the crest of
Lancelot Mansfield (described in an early issue of the _NEHGR_)? If
not, it looks like a reference to it was made in some past issue of
the _Bulletin of the Connecticut Historical Society_ ...

http://books.google.com/books?q=%22lanc ... arch+Books

Connecticut Historical Society Bulletin, Vol. 7, no. 2 (1941), pp.
10-12:

An ancient manuscript was presented to the Society a few years ago
with the following account of its history.

"This Patent for A Crest to the Mansfield Coat of Arms has been in
possession of the Windsor branch of the Phelps family "time out of
mind," and is now presented to the Conn. Hist. Society by Mr. Daniel
Phelps, who received it from his father, the late Hiram Phelps of
Windsor. Sarah Phelps, a granddaughter of Mr. William, the emigrant,
married John Mansfied, 1683; he died before his wife and none of his
name succeeded him in Windsor. His widow probably left this heraldic
parchment with the Phelps family."

... The document reads as follows:

To all and singular aswell nobles and gentils as others to whome these
presentes shall come be seene heard read & understood Willm. Flower
Esquire otherwise called Norroy principall herald and kinge of Armes
of the East west and North partes of the Realme of England from the
river of Trent northward Sendeth greetings in our Lord God ever-
lastinge. Whereas Lancelot Manfeld of Skirpenbeck in the Countie of
York Esquire is well borne and descended of worthie progenitors
bearinge signes and tokens of their race and gentrie called Armes
which likewise unto him are due by just descent and prerogative of
birth from his auncestors: ...

Interesting. According to Savage, John Man[s]feld of Windsor, with wife
Sarah Phelps, had children John (d. at age 6), Sarah, Samuel, Mary, "and
perhaps more."

Whether or not he left descendants, I'm surprised he is not currently
included in the Roll of Arms of the NEHGS Committee on Heraldry (listing
known armigers in the colonies or the US down through the 19th century).

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

Renia

Re: Whereabouts of the Lancelot Mansfield crest

Legg inn av Renia » 05 okt 2007 02:12:10

harv2.lawref@gmail.com wrote:

On Oct 4, 5:17 pm, Nathaniel Taylor <nathanieltay...@earthlink.net
wrote:

In article <1191525205.146170.308...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,



"mholl...@mac.com" <mholl...@mac.com> wrote:

On Sep 28, 4:12 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Is the current whereabouts known for the grant of the crest of
Lancelot Mansfield (described in an early issue of the _NEHGR_)? If
not, it looks like a reference to it was made in some past issue of
the _Bulletin of the Connecticut Historical Society_ ...

http://books.google.com/books?q=%22lanc ... arch+Books

Connecticut Historical Society Bulletin, Vol. 7, no. 2 (1941), pp.
10-12:

An ancient manuscript was presented to the Society a few years ago
with the following account of its history.

"This Patent for A Crest to the Mansfield Coat of Arms has been in
possession of the Windsor branch of the Phelps family "time out of
mind," and is now presented to the Conn. Hist. Society by Mr. Daniel
Phelps, who received it from his father, the late Hiram Phelps of
Windsor. Sarah Phelps, a granddaughter of Mr. William, the emigrant,
married John Mansfied, 1683; he died before his wife and none of his
name succeeded him in Windsor. His widow probably left this heraldic
parchment with the Phelps family."

... The document reads as follows:

To all and singular aswell nobles and gentils as others to whome these
presentes shall come be seene heard read & understood Willm. Flower
Esquire otherwise called Norroy principall herald and kinge of Armes
of the East west and North partes of the Realme of England from the
river of Trent northward Sendeth greetings in our Lord God ever-
lastinge. Whereas Lancelot Manfeld of Skirpenbeck in the Countie of
York Esquire is well borne and descended of worthie progenitors
bearinge signes and tokens of their race and gentrie called Armes
which likewise unto him are due by just descent and prerogative of
birth from his auncestors: ...

Interesting. According to Savage, John Man[s]feld of Windsor, with wife
Sarah Phelps, had children John (d. at age 6), Sarah, Samuel, Mary, "and
perhaps more."

Whether or not he left descendants, I'm surprised he is not currently
included in the Roll of Arms of the NEHGS Committee on Heraldry (listing
known armigers in the colonies or the US down through the 19th century).

Nat Taylorhttp://www.nltaylor.net


So my dumb followup question would be: Is there a Yorkshire Archives
that would hold the documentation for such a coat of arms? It is
interesting that this document shows Lancelot Mansfield to be of
ancient gentry ancestry, although we don't even know his parents yet.
It is through his wife, Anne Eure, that Mansfield descendants,
including myself, get their royal lines.

So, how does one follow up on such a lead to get to other primary
documentation?

Apply to the College of Arms, who, for a fee, will investigate the
Man(s)field arms.

The Man(s)fields (or anything similar) do not appear in the 17th century
Visitation of Yorkshire, which suggests the line had died out by the
time of Dugdale's visitation in 1665.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/te ... 7.0001.001

However, the index to the Flower's 1567 visitation shows Mansfield as
"see Dransfield". The Dransfield family of Stubbs Walden have their
pedigree on page 148, but no mention of Lancelot. William Flower died in
1593. Dugdale's Visitation was begun in 1605, so this suggests the
Man(s)field family had died out by then or they might have been included.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern ... 33text.pdf

However, the same Visitation has Anne Eure married to Launcelot Myrfield
(shown as Mirfield in the index).


British History online shows one Lancelot Manfield, incumbent at St
James's, Ormside, Westmorland, from 1575 until his death in 1582.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... mpid=43512

Cambridge University Alumni has:

Name: Roger Manfield OR Mansfield
College: KING'S
Entered: 1544
More Information: Adm. at KING'S, a scholar from Eton, 1541. Matric.
1544; B.A. 1545-6. Fellow, till 1546-7.

Name: William Manfield
College: CLARE
Entered: Lent, 1580
More Information: Matric. sizar from CLARE, Lent, 1580-1; B.A. from St
Catharine's, 1584-5; M.A. from Clare, 1588.

Name: Thomas Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1501-2; M.A. 1505-6. Incorp. at Oxford, 1516.
B.D. (Oxford) 1526.

Name: John Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1492-3; M.A. 1496. Ord. sub-deacon (Ely) Mar. 17,
1491.

Name: Andrew Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1492-3; M.A. 1495-6; M.B. 1502-3; M.D. 1510-1.

Name: Andrew Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1504; M.A. 1507; M.D. 1514-5.

Name: Manfield
More Information: (1562), see MANDEVILLE.

Name: Philip Mandevile OR Manfield
College: KING'S
Entered: 1562
More Information: Adm. at KING'S (age 18) a scholar from Eton, 1562. Of
Petworth, Sussex. Matric. 1562; B.A. 1566-7; M.A. 1570. Fellow, 1565-73.
Ord. eacon and priest (Lincoln) Nov. 5, 1583. Said to have been Master
of Bury St Edmunds School, 1562-83. V. of Stotfold, Beds., 1583. (Harwood.)

Further Mandeville references don't help.

Renia

Re: Whereabouts of the Lancelot Mansfield crest

Legg inn av Renia » 05 okt 2007 02:12:10

harv2.lawref@gmail.com wrote:

On Oct 4, 5:17 pm, Nathaniel Taylor <nathanieltay...@earthlink.net
wrote:

In article <1191525205.146170.308...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,



"mholl...@mac.com" <mholl...@mac.com> wrote:

On Sep 28, 4:12 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Is the current whereabouts known for the grant of the crest of
Lancelot Mansfield (described in an early issue of the _NEHGR_)? If
not, it looks like a reference to it was made in some past issue of
the _Bulletin of the Connecticut Historical Society_ ...

http://books.google.com/books?q=%22lanc ... arch+Books

Connecticut Historical Society Bulletin, Vol. 7, no. 2 (1941), pp.
10-12:

An ancient manuscript was presented to the Society a few years ago
with the following account of its history.

"This Patent for A Crest to the Mansfield Coat of Arms has been in
possession of the Windsor branch of the Phelps family "time out of
mind," and is now presented to the Conn. Hist. Society by Mr. Daniel
Phelps, who received it from his father, the late Hiram Phelps of
Windsor. Sarah Phelps, a granddaughter of Mr. William, the emigrant,
married John Mansfied, 1683; he died before his wife and none of his
name succeeded him in Windsor. His widow probably left this heraldic
parchment with the Phelps family."

... The document reads as follows:

To all and singular aswell nobles and gentils as others to whome these
presentes shall come be seene heard read & understood Willm. Flower
Esquire otherwise called Norroy principall herald and kinge of Armes
of the East west and North partes of the Realme of England from the
river of Trent northward Sendeth greetings in our Lord God ever-
lastinge. Whereas Lancelot Manfeld of Skirpenbeck in the Countie of
York Esquire is well borne and descended of worthie progenitors
bearinge signes and tokens of their race and gentrie called Armes
which likewise unto him are due by just descent and prerogative of
birth from his auncestors: ...

Interesting. According to Savage, John Man[s]feld of Windsor, with wife
Sarah Phelps, had children John (d. at age 6), Sarah, Samuel, Mary, "and
perhaps more."

Whether or not he left descendants, I'm surprised he is not currently
included in the Roll of Arms of the NEHGS Committee on Heraldry (listing
known armigers in the colonies or the US down through the 19th century).

Nat Taylorhttp://www.nltaylor.net


So my dumb followup question would be: Is there a Yorkshire Archives
that would hold the documentation for such a coat of arms? It is
interesting that this document shows Lancelot Mansfield to be of
ancient gentry ancestry, although we don't even know his parents yet.
It is through his wife, Anne Eure, that Mansfield descendants,
including myself, get their royal lines.

So, how does one follow up on such a lead to get to other primary
documentation?

Apply to the College of Arms, who, for a fee, will investigate the
Man(s)field arms.

The Man(s)fields (or anything similar) do not appear in the 17th century
Visitation of Yorkshire, which suggests the line had died out by the
time of Dugdale's visitation in 1665.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/te ... 7.0001.001

However, the index to the Flower's 1567 visitation shows Mansfield as
"see Dransfield". The Dransfield family of Stubbs Walden have their
pedigree on page 148, but no mention of Lancelot. William Flower died in
1593. Dugdale's Visitation was begun in 1605, so this suggests the
Man(s)field family had died out by then or they might have been included.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern ... 33text.pdf

However, the same Visitation has Anne Eure married to Launcelot Myrfield
(shown as Mirfield in the index).


British History online shows one Lancelot Manfield, incumbent at St
James's, Ormside, Westmorland, from 1575 until his death in 1582.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... mpid=43512

Cambridge University Alumni has:

Name: Roger Manfield OR Mansfield
College: KING'S
Entered: 1544
More Information: Adm. at KING'S, a scholar from Eton, 1541. Matric.
1544; B.A. 1545-6. Fellow, till 1546-7.

Name: William Manfield
College: CLARE
Entered: Lent, 1580
More Information: Matric. sizar from CLARE, Lent, 1580-1; B.A. from St
Catharine's, 1584-5; M.A. from Clare, 1588.

Name: Thomas Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1501-2; M.A. 1505-6. Incorp. at Oxford, 1516.
B.D. (Oxford) 1526.

Name: John Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1492-3; M.A. 1496. Ord. sub-deacon (Ely) Mar. 17,
1491.

Name: Andrew Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1492-3; M.A. 1495-6; M.B. 1502-3; M.D. 1510-1.

Name: Andrew Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1504; M.A. 1507; M.D. 1514-5.

Name: Manfield
More Information: (1562), see MANDEVILLE.

Name: Philip Mandevile OR Manfield
College: KING'S
Entered: 1562
More Information: Adm. at KING'S (age 18) a scholar from Eton, 1562. Of
Petworth, Sussex. Matric. 1562; B.A. 1566-7; M.A. 1570. Fellow, 1565-73.
Ord. eacon and priest (Lincoln) Nov. 5, 1583. Said to have been Master
of Bury St Edmunds School, 1562-83. V. of Stotfold, Beds., 1583. (Harwood.)

Further Mandeville references don't help.

Renia

Re: Whereabouts of the Lancelot Mansfield crest

Legg inn av Renia » 05 okt 2007 02:12:10

harv2.lawref@gmail.com wrote:

On Oct 4, 5:17 pm, Nathaniel Taylor <nathanieltay...@earthlink.net
wrote:

In article <1191525205.146170.308...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,



"mholl...@mac.com" <mholl...@mac.com> wrote:

On Sep 28, 4:12 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Is the current whereabouts known for the grant of the crest of
Lancelot Mansfield (described in an early issue of the _NEHGR_)? If
not, it looks like a reference to it was made in some past issue of
the _Bulletin of the Connecticut Historical Society_ ...

http://books.google.com/books?q=%22lanc ... arch+Books

Connecticut Historical Society Bulletin, Vol. 7, no. 2 (1941), pp.
10-12:

An ancient manuscript was presented to the Society a few years ago
with the following account of its history.

"This Patent for A Crest to the Mansfield Coat of Arms has been in
possession of the Windsor branch of the Phelps family "time out of
mind," and is now presented to the Conn. Hist. Society by Mr. Daniel
Phelps, who received it from his father, the late Hiram Phelps of
Windsor. Sarah Phelps, a granddaughter of Mr. William, the emigrant,
married John Mansfied, 1683; he died before his wife and none of his
name succeeded him in Windsor. His widow probably left this heraldic
parchment with the Phelps family."

... The document reads as follows:

To all and singular aswell nobles and gentils as others to whome these
presentes shall come be seene heard read & understood Willm. Flower
Esquire otherwise called Norroy principall herald and kinge of Armes
of the East west and North partes of the Realme of England from the
river of Trent northward Sendeth greetings in our Lord God ever-
lastinge. Whereas Lancelot Manfeld of Skirpenbeck in the Countie of
York Esquire is well borne and descended of worthie progenitors
bearinge signes and tokens of their race and gentrie called Armes
which likewise unto him are due by just descent and prerogative of
birth from his auncestors: ...

Interesting. According to Savage, John Man[s]feld of Windsor, with wife
Sarah Phelps, had children John (d. at age 6), Sarah, Samuel, Mary, "and
perhaps more."

Whether or not he left descendants, I'm surprised he is not currently
included in the Roll of Arms of the NEHGS Committee on Heraldry (listing
known armigers in the colonies or the US down through the 19th century).

Nat Taylorhttp://www.nltaylor.net


So my dumb followup question would be: Is there a Yorkshire Archives
that would hold the documentation for such a coat of arms? It is
interesting that this document shows Lancelot Mansfield to be of
ancient gentry ancestry, although we don't even know his parents yet.
It is through his wife, Anne Eure, that Mansfield descendants,
including myself, get their royal lines.

So, how does one follow up on such a lead to get to other primary
documentation?

Apply to the College of Arms, who, for a fee, will investigate the
Man(s)field arms.

The Man(s)fields (or anything similar) do not appear in the 17th century
Visitation of Yorkshire, which suggests the line had died out by the
time of Dugdale's visitation in 1665.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/te ... 7.0001.001

However, the index to the Flower's 1567 visitation shows Mansfield as
"see Dransfield". The Dransfield family of Stubbs Walden have their
pedigree on page 148, but no mention of Lancelot. William Flower died in
1593. Dugdale's Visitation was begun in 1605, so this suggests the
Man(s)field family had died out by then or they might have been included.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern ... 33text.pdf

However, the same Visitation has Anne Eure married to Launcelot Myrfield
(shown as Mirfield in the index).


British History online shows one Lancelot Manfield, incumbent at St
James's, Ormside, Westmorland, from 1575 until his death in 1582.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... mpid=43512

Cambridge University Alumni has:

Name: Roger Manfield OR Mansfield
College: KING'S
Entered: 1544
More Information: Adm. at KING'S, a scholar from Eton, 1541. Matric.
1544; B.A. 1545-6. Fellow, till 1546-7.

Name: William Manfield
College: CLARE
Entered: Lent, 1580
More Information: Matric. sizar from CLARE, Lent, 1580-1; B.A. from St
Catharine's, 1584-5; M.A. from Clare, 1588.

Name: Thomas Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1501-2; M.A. 1505-6. Incorp. at Oxford, 1516.
B.D. (Oxford) 1526.

Name: John Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1492-3; M.A. 1496. Ord. sub-deacon (Ely) Mar. 17,
1491.

Name: Andrew Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1492-3; M.A. 1495-6; M.B. 1502-3; M.D. 1510-1.

Name: Andrew Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1504; M.A. 1507; M.D. 1514-5.

Name: Manfield
More Information: (1562), see MANDEVILLE.

Name: Philip Mandevile OR Manfield
College: KING'S
Entered: 1562
More Information: Adm. at KING'S (age 18) a scholar from Eton, 1562. Of
Petworth, Sussex. Matric. 1562; B.A. 1566-7; M.A. 1570. Fellow, 1565-73.
Ord. eacon and priest (Lincoln) Nov. 5, 1583. Said to have been Master
of Bury St Edmunds School, 1562-83. V. of Stotfold, Beds., 1583. (Harwood.)

Further Mandeville references don't help.

Renia

Re: Whereabouts of the Lancelot Mansfield crest

Legg inn av Renia » 05 okt 2007 02:12:10

harv2.lawref@gmail.com wrote:

On Oct 4, 5:17 pm, Nathaniel Taylor <nathanieltay...@earthlink.net
wrote:

In article <1191525205.146170.308...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,



"mholl...@mac.com" <mholl...@mac.com> wrote:

On Sep 28, 4:12 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Is the current whereabouts known for the grant of the crest of
Lancelot Mansfield (described in an early issue of the _NEHGR_)? If
not, it looks like a reference to it was made in some past issue of
the _Bulletin of the Connecticut Historical Society_ ...

http://books.google.com/books?q=%22lanc ... arch+Books

Connecticut Historical Society Bulletin, Vol. 7, no. 2 (1941), pp.
10-12:

An ancient manuscript was presented to the Society a few years ago
with the following account of its history.

"This Patent for A Crest to the Mansfield Coat of Arms has been in
possession of the Windsor branch of the Phelps family "time out of
mind," and is now presented to the Conn. Hist. Society by Mr. Daniel
Phelps, who received it from his father, the late Hiram Phelps of
Windsor. Sarah Phelps, a granddaughter of Mr. William, the emigrant,
married John Mansfied, 1683; he died before his wife and none of his
name succeeded him in Windsor. His widow probably left this heraldic
parchment with the Phelps family."

... The document reads as follows:

To all and singular aswell nobles and gentils as others to whome these
presentes shall come be seene heard read & understood Willm. Flower
Esquire otherwise called Norroy principall herald and kinge of Armes
of the East west and North partes of the Realme of England from the
river of Trent northward Sendeth greetings in our Lord God ever-
lastinge. Whereas Lancelot Manfeld of Skirpenbeck in the Countie of
York Esquire is well borne and descended of worthie progenitors
bearinge signes and tokens of their race and gentrie called Armes
which likewise unto him are due by just descent and prerogative of
birth from his auncestors: ...

Interesting. According to Savage, John Man[s]feld of Windsor, with wife
Sarah Phelps, had children John (d. at age 6), Sarah, Samuel, Mary, "and
perhaps more."

Whether or not he left descendants, I'm surprised he is not currently
included in the Roll of Arms of the NEHGS Committee on Heraldry (listing
known armigers in the colonies or the US down through the 19th century).

Nat Taylorhttp://www.nltaylor.net


So my dumb followup question would be: Is there a Yorkshire Archives
that would hold the documentation for such a coat of arms? It is
interesting that this document shows Lancelot Mansfield to be of
ancient gentry ancestry, although we don't even know his parents yet.
It is through his wife, Anne Eure, that Mansfield descendants,
including myself, get their royal lines.

So, how does one follow up on such a lead to get to other primary
documentation?

Apply to the College of Arms, who, for a fee, will investigate the
Man(s)field arms.

The Man(s)fields (or anything similar) do not appear in the 17th century
Visitation of Yorkshire, which suggests the line had died out by the
time of Dugdale's visitation in 1665.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/te ... 7.0001.001

However, the index to the Flower's 1567 visitation shows Mansfield as
"see Dransfield". The Dransfield family of Stubbs Walden have their
pedigree on page 148, but no mention of Lancelot. William Flower died in
1593. Dugdale's Visitation was begun in 1605, so this suggests the
Man(s)field family had died out by then or they might have been included.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern ... 33text.pdf

However, the same Visitation has Anne Eure married to Launcelot Myrfield
(shown as Mirfield in the index).


British History online shows one Lancelot Manfield, incumbent at St
James's, Ormside, Westmorland, from 1575 until his death in 1582.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... mpid=43512

Cambridge University Alumni has:

Name: Roger Manfield OR Mansfield
College: KING'S
Entered: 1544
More Information: Adm. at KING'S, a scholar from Eton, 1541. Matric.
1544; B.A. 1545-6. Fellow, till 1546-7.

Name: William Manfield
College: CLARE
Entered: Lent, 1580
More Information: Matric. sizar from CLARE, Lent, 1580-1; B.A. from St
Catharine's, 1584-5; M.A. from Clare, 1588.

Name: Thomas Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1501-2; M.A. 1505-6. Incorp. at Oxford, 1516.
B.D. (Oxford) 1526.

Name: John Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1492-3; M.A. 1496. Ord. sub-deacon (Ely) Mar. 17,
1491.

Name: Andrew Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1492-3; M.A. 1495-6; M.B. 1502-3; M.D. 1510-1.

Name: Andrew Manfield
More Information: B.A. 1504; M.A. 1507; M.D. 1514-5.

Name: Manfield
More Information: (1562), see MANDEVILLE.

Name: Philip Mandevile OR Manfield
College: KING'S
Entered: 1562
More Information: Adm. at KING'S (age 18) a scholar from Eton, 1562. Of
Petworth, Sussex. Matric. 1562; B.A. 1566-7; M.A. 1570. Fellow, 1565-73.
Ord. eacon and priest (Lincoln) Nov. 5, 1583. Said to have been Master
of Bury St Edmunds School, 1562-83. V. of Stotfold, Beds., 1583. (Harwood.)

Further Mandeville references don't help.

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Whereabouts of the Lancelot Mansfield crest

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 05 okt 2007 12:45:23

In article <fe42ue$uji$1@mouse.otenet.gr>,
Renia <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

harv2.lawref@gmail.com wrote:

On Oct 4, 5:17 pm, Nathaniel Taylor <nathanieltay...@earthlink.net
wrote:

In article <1191525205.146170.308...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,



"mholl...@mac.com" <mholl...@mac.com> wrote:

On Sep 28, 4:12 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Is the current whereabouts known for the grant of the crest of
Lancelot Mansfield (described in an early issue of the _NEHGR_)? If
not, it looks like a reference to it was made in some past issue of
the _Bulletin of the Connecticut Historical Society_ ...

http://books.google.com/books?q=%22lanc ... arch+Books

Connecticut Historical Society Bulletin, Vol. 7, no. 2 (1941), pp.
10-12:

An ancient manuscript was presented to the Society a few years ago
with the following account of its history.

"This Patent for A Crest to the Mansfield Coat of Arms has been in
possession of the Windsor branch of the Phelps family "time out of
mind," and is now presented to the Conn. Hist. Society by Mr. Daniel
Phelps, who received it from his father, the late Hiram Phelps of
Windsor. Sarah Phelps, a granddaughter of Mr. William, the emigrant,
married John Mansfied, 1683; he died before his wife and none of his
name succeeded him in Windsor. His widow probably left this heraldic
parchment with the Phelps family."

... The document reads as follows:

To all and singular aswell nobles and gentils as others to whome these
presentes shall come be seene heard read & understood Willm. Flower
Esquire otherwise called Norroy principall herald and kinge of Armes
of the East west and North partes of the Realme of England from the
river of Trent northward Sendeth greetings in our Lord God ever-
lastinge. Whereas Lancelot Manfeld of Skirpenbeck in the Countie of
York Esquire is well borne and descended of worthie progenitors
bearinge signes and tokens of their race and gentrie called Armes
which likewise unto him are due by just descent and prerogative of
birth from his auncestors: ...

Interesting. According to Savage, John Man[s]feld of Windsor, with wife
Sarah Phelps, had children John (d. at age 6), Sarah, Samuel, Mary, "and
perhaps more."

Whether or not he left descendants, I'm surprised he is not currently
included in the Roll of Arms of the NEHGS Committee on Heraldry (listing
known armigers in the colonies or the US down through the 19th century).

Nat Taylorhttp://www.nltaylor.net


So my dumb followup question would be: Is there a Yorkshire Archives
that would hold the documentation for such a coat of arms? It is
interesting that this document shows Lancelot Mansfield to be of
ancient gentry ancestry, although we don't even know his parents yet.
It is through his wife, Anne Eure, that Mansfield descendants,
including myself, get their royal lines.

So, how does one follow up on such a lead to get to other primary
documentation?

Apply to the College of Arms, who, for a fee, will investigate the
Man(s)field arms.

The Man(s)fields (or anything similar) do not appear in the 17th century
Visitation of Yorkshire, which suggests the line had died out by the
time of Dugdale's visitation in 1665.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/te ... 7.0001.001

However, the index to the Flower's 1567 visitation shows Mansfield as
"see Dransfield". The Dransfield family of Stubbs Walden have their
pedigree on page 148, but no mention of Lancelot. William Flower died in
1593. Dugdale's Visitation was begun in 1605, so this suggests the
Man(s)field family had died out by then or they might have been included.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern ... 33text.pdf

However, the same Visitation has Anne Eure married to Launcelot Myrfield
(shown as Mirfield in the index).

<...>

Dronsfield, Mirfield, Mandeville -- interesting. Note on Flower's grant
of the crest, the "ancient arms" assigned to this Lancelot 'Manfeld' are:

"Gueules a bend cotized argent betweene six Crosse-crosselets fiche
gold"

Do these arms correspond to anthing noted anywhere for these other
families?

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

John Brandon

Re: Whereabouts of the Lancelot Mansfield crest

Legg inn av John Brandon » 05 okt 2007 15:13:09

There's a quite detailed article addressing most of these things ...

Robert Charles Anderson, John C. Brandon, Paul C. Reed, "The Ancestry
of the Royally-Descended Mansfields of the Massachusetts Bay," _New
Eng. Hist. Gen. Register_, 155 (2001): 3-35

Renia

Re: Whereabouts of the Lancelot Mansfield crest

Legg inn av Renia » 06 okt 2007 01:38:11

Nathaniel Taylor wrote:

In article <fe42ue$uji$1@mouse.otenet.gr>,
Renia <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:


harv2.lawref@gmail.com wrote:


On Oct 4, 5:17 pm, Nathaniel Taylor <nathanieltay...@earthlink.net
wrote:


In article <1191525205.146170.308...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,



"mholl...@mac.com" <mholl...@mac.com> wrote:


On Sep 28, 4:12 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:


Is the current whereabouts known for the grant of the crest of
Lancelot Mansfield (described in an early issue of the _NEHGR_)? If
not, it looks like a reference to it was made in some past issue of
the _Bulletin of the Connecticut Historical Society_ ...

http://books.google.com/books?q=%22lanc ... arch+Books

Connecticut Historical Society Bulletin, Vol. 7, no. 2 (1941), pp.
10-12:

An ancient manuscript was presented to the Society a few years ago
with the following account of its history.

"This Patent for A Crest to the Mansfield Coat of Arms has been in
possession of the Windsor branch of the Phelps family "time out of
mind," and is now presented to the Conn. Hist. Society by Mr. Daniel
Phelps, who received it from his father, the late Hiram Phelps of
Windsor. Sarah Phelps, a granddaughter of Mr. William, the emigrant,
married John Mansfied, 1683; he died before his wife and none of his
name succeeded him in Windsor. His widow probably left this heraldic
parchment with the Phelps family."

... The document reads as follows:

To all and singular aswell nobles and gentils as others to whome these
presentes shall come be seene heard read & understood Willm. Flower
Esquire otherwise called Norroy principall herald and kinge of Armes
of the East west and North partes of the Realme of England from the
river of Trent northward Sendeth greetings in our Lord God ever-
lastinge. Whereas Lancelot Manfeld of Skirpenbeck in the Countie of
York Esquire is well borne and descended of worthie progenitors
bearinge signes and tokens of their race and gentrie called Armes
which likewise unto him are due by just descent and prerogative of
birth from his auncestors: ...

Interesting. According to Savage, John Man[s]feld of Windsor, with wife
Sarah Phelps, had children John (d. at age 6), Sarah, Samuel, Mary, "and
perhaps more."

Whether or not he left descendants, I'm surprised he is not currently
included in the Roll of Arms of the NEHGS Committee on Heraldry (listing
known armigers in the colonies or the US down through the 19th century).

Nat Taylorhttp://www.nltaylor.net


So my dumb followup question would be: Is there a Yorkshire Archives
that would hold the documentation for such a coat of arms? It is
interesting that this document shows Lancelot Mansfield to be of
ancient gentry ancestry, although we don't even know his parents yet.
It is through his wife, Anne Eure, that Mansfield descendants,
including myself, get their royal lines.

So, how does one follow up on such a lead to get to other primary
documentation?

Apply to the College of Arms, who, for a fee, will investigate the
Man(s)field arms.

The Man(s)fields (or anything similar) do not appear in the 17th century
Visitation of Yorkshire, which suggests the line had died out by the
time of Dugdale's visitation in 1665.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/te ... 7.0001.001

However, the index to the Flower's 1567 visitation shows Mansfield as
"see Dransfield". The Dransfield family of Stubbs Walden have their
pedigree on page 148, but no mention of Lancelot. William Flower died in
1593. Dugdale's Visitation was begun in 1605, so this suggests the
Man(s)field family had died out by then or they might have been included.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern ... 33text.pdf

However, the same Visitation has Anne Eure married to Launcelot Myrfield
(shown as Mirfield in the index).


...

Dronsfield, Mirfield, Mandeville -- interesting. Note on Flower's grant
of the crest, the "ancient arms" assigned to this Lancelot 'Manfeld' are:

"Gueules a bend cotized argent betweene six Crosse-crosselets fiche
gold"

Do these arms correspond to anthing noted anywhere for these other
families?

Not that I noticed. And I did an internet phrase search on the blazon
and parts of the blazon, with and without the old spellings. Nothing. If
you have the date of the grant, it shouldn't be too hard a job for the
College of Arms to find it. As to the cost, I don't know.

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Whereabouts of the Lancelot Mansfield crest

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 06 okt 2007 01:54:26

In article <fe6lal$uqg$1@mouse.otenet.gr>,
Renia <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Nathaniel Taylor wrote:

In article <fe42ue$uji$1@mouse.otenet.gr>,
Renia <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:


harv2.lawref@gmail.com wrote:


On Oct 4, 5:17 pm, Nathaniel Taylor <nathanieltay...@earthlink.net
wrote:


In article <1191525205.146170.308...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,



"mholl...@mac.com" <mholl...@mac.com> wrote:


On Sep 28, 4:12 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:


Is the current whereabouts known for the grant of the crest of
Lancelot Mansfield (described in an early issue of the _NEHGR_)? If
not, it looks like a reference to it was made in some past issue of
the _Bulletin of the Connecticut Historical Society_ ...

http://books.google.com/books?q=%22lanc ... arch+Books

Connecticut Historical Society Bulletin, Vol. 7, no. 2 (1941), pp.
10-12:

An ancient manuscript was presented to the Society a few years ago
with the following account of its history.

"This Patent for A Crest to the Mansfield Coat of Arms has been in
possession of the Windsor branch of the Phelps family "time out of
mind," and is now presented to the Conn. Hist. Society by Mr. Daniel
Phelps, who received it from his father, the late Hiram Phelps of
Windsor. Sarah Phelps, a granddaughter of Mr. William, the emigrant,
married John Mansfied, 1683; he died before his wife and none of his
name succeeded him in Windsor. His widow probably left this heraldic
parchment with the Phelps family."

... The document reads as follows:

To all and singular aswell nobles and gentils as others to whome these
presentes shall come be seene heard read & understood Willm. Flower
Esquire otherwise called Norroy principall herald and kinge of Armes
of the East west and North partes of the Realme of England from the
river of Trent northward Sendeth greetings in our Lord God ever-
lastinge. Whereas Lancelot Manfeld of Skirpenbeck in the Countie of
York Esquire is well borne and descended of worthie progenitors
bearinge signes and tokens of their race and gentrie called Armes
which likewise unto him are due by just descent and prerogative of
birth from his auncestors: ...

Interesting. According to Savage, John Man[s]feld of Windsor, with wife
Sarah Phelps, had children John (d. at age 6), Sarah, Samuel, Mary, "and
perhaps more."

Whether or not he left descendants, I'm surprised he is not currently
included in the Roll of Arms of the NEHGS Committee on Heraldry (listing
known armigers in the colonies or the US down through the 19th century).

Nat Taylorhttp://www.nltaylor.net


So my dumb followup question would be: Is there a Yorkshire Archives
that would hold the documentation for such a coat of arms? It is
interesting that this document shows Lancelot Mansfield to be of
ancient gentry ancestry, although we don't even know his parents yet.
It is through his wife, Anne Eure, that Mansfield descendants,
including myself, get their royal lines.

So, how does one follow up on such a lead to get to other primary
documentation?

Apply to the College of Arms, who, for a fee, will investigate the
Man(s)field arms.

The Man(s)fields (or anything similar) do not appear in the 17th century
Visitation of Yorkshire, which suggests the line had died out by the
time of Dugdale's visitation in 1665.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/te ... 7.0001.001

However, the index to the Flower's 1567 visitation shows Mansfield as
"see Dransfield". The Dransfield family of Stubbs Walden have their
pedigree on page 148, but no mention of Lancelot. William Flower died in
1593. Dugdale's Visitation was begun in 1605, so this suggests the
Man(s)field family had died out by then or they might have been included.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern ... 33text.pdf

However, the same Visitation has Anne Eure married to Launcelot Myrfield
(shown as Mirfield in the index).


...

Dronsfield, Mirfield, Mandeville -- interesting. Note on Flower's grant
of the crest, the "ancient arms" assigned to this Lancelot 'Manfeld' are:

"Gueules a bend cotized argent betweene six Crosse-crosselets fiche
gold"

Do these arms correspond to anthing noted anywhere for these other
families?

Not that I noticed. And I did an internet phrase search on the blazon
and parts of the blazon, with and without the old spellings. Nothing. If
you have the date of the grant, it shouldn't be too hard a job for the
College of Arms to find it. As to the cost, I don't know.

The crest grant is in Foster's index of grants down to 1700 (Harleian
Soc. vol. 66), but no other grant for any Mansfield. The excellent
article John referenced (NEHGR, 2001) provides excellent context for
this Lancelot Manfeld--though it's too bad the authors didn't know of
the 1941 Connecticut Historical Society piece on the actual grant
diploma.

From the article and the grant it looks as if the reference to 'ancient
arms' by Flower, with the grant of a crest, represents a sort of
sideways approval of a fiction of ancient gentry status, useful for a
nobody who rose in government service and married well, and likely a
conscious connivance of the herald. Despite the purists' question of
whether such arms would be considered legitimate now, I imagine
Mansfield was added to the roll of armigerous New Englanders after the
2001 article was published: I have a gap in my roll index of
registrations from the late 1990s & early 2000s.

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

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