Further comment on Maud de Camville's daughter, Isabel de Ve

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Douglas Richardson

Further comment on Maud de Camville's daughter, Isabel de Ve

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 17 sep 2007 20:30:22

Dear Newsgroup ~

Reviewing all of the evidence presented to date regarding Maud de
Camville's family, I'm struck by the fact that there were two separate
and competing claims among her later descendants who claimed to be her
heirs. These would be her Stanley descendants who were the
representatives of her known daughter, Isabel de Vernon, wife of Sir
Richard de Stafford. The Stanley family displayed the Camville arms,
but not the Vernon arms, on their tombs. And, then we have the male
line descendants of William de Vernon whose descendants displayed both
the Vernon and Camville arms on their tombs. Under normal
circumstances, both wings of the Vernon family would not be considered
to be the heir to Maud de Camville. Either one set of descendants
would be Maud's heirs, or the other. But not both.

In this case, for reasons which I do not fully understand, it appears
that BOTH sets of claimants were heirs to Maud de Camville. The
reasons for this are a bit technical, but I think I understand the
process involved.

Under normal circumstances, when a woman was the heiress to a valuable
inheritance, she allowed the inheritance to fall to her eldest son and
heir, occasionally with provisions made to her younger children
sometimes for life only. If she had more than one marriage, her
inheritance might be tied up for many years by a later husband. But,
eventually in time, the inheritance would fall to the woman's eldest
son and heir.

In this case, this did not happen. As best I can determine, Maud de
Camville inherited what consisted of the English portion of the
Camville barony from her father, William, 2nd Lord Camville. Some
time prior to Maud's death c.1351, that barony was conveyed over in
its entirety to Maud's daughter, Isabel de Stafford, with the
exception of a L20 grant out of lands at Haunton, Staffordshire to
Isabel's younger sister, Maud. Presumably Isabel was responsible for
paying the L20 annual grant to her sister, Maud, when their mother,
Maud de Camville died.

Solely on the basis of holding the Camville barony, Isabel claimed to
be the heiress of Maud de Camville's ancestors, William and Aubrey de
Camville. She also put the Camville arms on her seal. I believe
both actions would be considerable acceptable practice by Isabel's
contemporaries.

The net effect, however, was to deprive Isabel de Stafford's minor
nephew, Richard son of William de Vernon, of any share in the Camville
inheritance. In fact, Richard de Vernon appears to have held obtained
nothing from his grandmother, Maud de Camville's estate at all, yet he
was her nearest male heir. This is not the way things usually went.
In fact, this arrangement of the Camville inheritance has baffled and
confused most historians who have studied this set of events in the
past.

It appears that in the course of time, Isabel de Stafford's younger
sister, Maud de Vernon, wife of William de Venables, died without
issue. At that point, Maud's interest in the L20 of rent from
Haunton, Staffordshire would have reverted to Maud's next heir. In
this case, that would have been Maud and Isabel's nephew, Richard son
of William de Stafford. And, if I understand the nature of that grant
correctly, the L20 per annum would have continued to be paid to Maud
de Vernon's male heir by either Isabel or her son, Bishop Stafford, as
Haunton was held by Isabel and then her son as a member of their manor
at Clifton-Campville, Staffordshire.

In due course, it also appears that in the next generation of the
Vernon family that Richard son and heir of Richard son of William de
Vernon released his interest to property in the "area" of Haunton
sometime after 1400 to Isabel's son, Bishop Stafford, in exchange for
another manor held by the Stafford family at Bridgeford,
Staffordshire. I assume that what was released by Richard de Vernon
in this conveyance was the L20 rent originally granted to Isabel de
Stafford's sister, Maud de Vernon, wife of William de Venables.
That's a guess, but probably a correct one.

I've examined alternative possibilities which might explain these
unusual set of circumstances such as Maud de Camville's husband,
Richard de Vernon, had two wives named Maud. Or, that there were two
contemporary William de Vernon's who were sons of a Richard de Vernon,
one who was a son of Maud de Camville and one who was not. But I
have discarded both of these possibilities for practical reasons. I
believe the evidence is sound that Maud de Camville was the mother of
William de Vernon. I also believe the evidence is sound that she
disinherited William's son, Richard de Vernon, sometime before her
death c.1351 in favor of her daughter, Isabel de Vernon, wife of Sir
Richard de Stafford. Thus, Maud de Camville in effect created two
sets of heirs, one of blood, the other by grant.

While it is true that Isabel de Stafford's nephew, Richard de Vernon,
would have had legal recourse once he came of age to reclaim the
Camville inheritance, it may be that he was intimidated by the fact
that Isabel's husband, Richard de Stafford, was the younger brother of
the most powerful man in Staffordshire at the time, namely Sir Ralph
de Stafford, 1st Earl of Stafford. If so, it might have been
difficult if not impossible for Richard de Vernon to obtain any legal
satisfaction in the courts. Be that as it may, the Camville
inheritance was allowed to remain with the Stafford family.

I wish to thank Matthew Connolly for his many useful and cordial posts
regarding this complicated and complex matter. Several pieces of
evidence he presented proved to be most helpful to me, especially his
mention of the release of the Haunton property by Richard son of
Richard de Vernon to Bishop Stafford c.1400, and for pointing out Luke
Potter's earlier post regarding Maud de Camville's other daughter,
Maud de Vernon.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

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