Dear Newsgroup ~
I found the interesting petition below earlier today in the helpful
online National Archives catalogue at the following weblink:
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp
The petition itself is undated, but a modern historian has dated this
petition as being c.1313. I believe this record has been misdated.
The petitioner in question is Eleanor de Bohun, widow of Sir Robert de
Ferrers, late Earl of Derby. Earl Robert died in 1279, leaving a
minor son and heir, John de Ferrers, who was born in 1271. Thus, the
petition concerns Eleanor de Bohun's minor son, John de Ferrers, who
was then a ward of the king, NOT her grandson, John, in the next
generation. It is clear that this is correct because the king granted
the manor of Chartley, Staffordshire (which is the subject of this
petition) to his brother, Earl Edmund, in 1276 [see Cal. Patent Rolls,
1272-1281, pg. 156] . Eleanor states that Edmund is the one who
disseised her of the manor. Edmund is also stated to have replied to
Eleanor's petition. Thus, the petition MUST date before Earl Edmund's
death in 1296, and during the period that Eleanor's son, John de
Ferrers, was a minor in ward, roughly 1279-1292. Without studying the
matter more deeply, my guess is that the petition probably dates from
c.1280.
I find that the petitioner's son, John de Ferrers, had license in 1294
to demise the manor of Chartley, Staffordshire held in chief to Robert
de Bures for life at an annual rent of 30l., in exchange for Bures,
Suffolk, granted to him in fee simple by the said Robert [Reference:
C.P.R. 1292-1301 (1895): 86]. So, it would appear that the manor was
eventually restored to Eleanor's son.
For interest's sake, the following is a list of the 17th Century New
World colonists who descend from Eleanor de Bohun, wife of Sir Robert
de Ferrers, Earl of Derby:
Robert Abell, Dannett Abney, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah
Blakiston, Thomas Booth, Elizabeth Bosvile, George, Giles & Robert
Brent, Edward Carleton, Kenelm Cheseldine, Grace Chetwode, Henry
Corbin, Elizabeth Coytemore, Francis Dade, Frances, Jane & Katherine
Deighton, John Fenwick, Edward Foliot, Thomas Gerard, Muriel Gurdon,
Daniel & John Humphrey, Mary Launce, Thomas Ligon, Oliver Manwaring,
Anne & Katherine Marbury, Anne Mauleverer, John Nelson, Philip &
Thomas Nelson, Joshua & Rebecca Owen, Thomas Owsley, George Reade,
Thomas Rudyard, Richard Saltonstall, Anthony Savage, Mary Wolseley,
Amy Wyllys.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
SC 8/85/4216
Petitioners: Eleanor de Ferrers.
Addressees: King.
Places mentioned: Chartley, [Staffordshire]; Sandon, [Staffordshire].
Nature of request: The petitioner states that Earl William de Ferrers
the elder married Anneys, daughter of Randolph, Earl of Chester, and
that they had two sons, William and Thomas. Anneys gave her manor of
Chartley to Thomas, who was seised of it until his brother William
died. Robert, the next Earl impleaded him for it, but it the end an
agreement was reached whereby Thomas would keep Chartley and have the
homages and lordships of Sandon as well. Thomas died seised of these,
and Eleanor, the petitioner, was endowed with the whole manor of
Chartley. She was seised until the death of William le Botiler, one
of the parceners, then Lord Edmund disseised her of it by force. As
it is part of the inheritance of John de Ferrers, who is under age and
in his keeping, so she asks the King that he might not be
disinherited.
Endorsement: Because Lord Edmund answers that he is seized of the
fees, therefore she is to take action for herself by writ.
Covering dates [? c. 1313]
Note The petitioner would appear to be the widow of Robert de
Ferrers, Earl of Derby. According to the Complete Peerage she died on
20 February 1314. The John de Ferrers mentioned as being in the King's
wardship, would seem to be her grandson, son of her son John, who died
around September 1312. CFR 1307-19 p.171 is an order, dated 12 May
1313, to take his lands into the King's hand. This petition would
therefore seem to have been submitted between 1312 and 1314.
Petition from Eleanor de Bohun, widow of Robert de Ferrers,
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Robert Forrest
Re: Petition from Eleanor de Bohun, widow of Robert de Ferre
Douglas and group:
Item SC 8/85/4216 as transcribed does indeed make Anneys (Alice/Agnes) the
*daughter* of Ranulph de Blundeville, Earl of Chester. Complete Peerage
3:168 tells us that Earl Ranulph d.s.p. 28 Oct 1232, and that "his great
estates passed to his four sisters and coheirs or their descendants",
followed by a footnote carefully identifying each sister and their husbands.
For Anneys, the entry is:
"(3) Alice, wife of William (de Ferrers), Earl of Derby, who had the manor
of Chartley, co. Stafford, all the lands between the rivers Ribble and
Mersey, &c."
Additional information is given in Complete Peerage 4:196-97,Derby,
including some mention of Thomas, the brother of William de Ferrers who was
given Chartley. Footnote (b) on p. 4:197 reads:
"(b) Fine Roll, 32 Hen. III, m. 14. On 16 Feb. 1248/9, he [William] was
ordered to restore to Thomas his br. the castle and manor of Chartley, which
A., Countess of Derby, their mother, had given to Thomas. (Close Roll, 33
Hen. III, m. 13d). This manor had belonged to Stephen de Beauchamp, and the
Earls of Chester had purchased it from Stephen's sisters and coheirs in 1222
and 1225. (Feet of Fines, case 208, file 3, nos. 24, 25, 44; case 272, file
8, no. 19). In Trinity term 1262 Thomas was suing Margaret, the Earl's
widow, for the manor of Chartley. (Assize Roll, no. 954, m. 40d)."
Farrer's "Honors and Knights Fees", pp. 2-9 and 10, also tells us that
Ranulph de Blundeville d.s.p. and gives more details on each of his four
sisters and their issue. For Agnes, he says:
"III. Agnes, third sister of earl Ranulf, m. in 1192 (23) William de
Ferrers, earl of Derby, who d. 22 September 1247; she d. 2 November 1247.
Issue--
i. William de Ferrers, 5th earl of Derby, succeeded his mother in
November, 1247; he d. 28 March, 1254.
I. Robert de Ferrers, 6th earl of Derby, b. about 1239, succeeded
in 1254; forfeited his honor and lands in 1266; d. 1279.
....(23) 'Stemmata Shirleiana', App. n.13."
If the approximate date given this transcribed ancient petition is
incorrect, and at least one significant entry in the text is incorrect, how
reliable is the rest of the transcription?
Robert Forrest
Item SC 8/85/4216 as transcribed does indeed make Anneys (Alice/Agnes) the
*daughter* of Ranulph de Blundeville, Earl of Chester. Complete Peerage
3:168 tells us that Earl Ranulph d.s.p. 28 Oct 1232, and that "his great
estates passed to his four sisters and coheirs or their descendants",
followed by a footnote carefully identifying each sister and their husbands.
For Anneys, the entry is:
"(3) Alice, wife of William (de Ferrers), Earl of Derby, who had the manor
of Chartley, co. Stafford, all the lands between the rivers Ribble and
Mersey, &c."
Additional information is given in Complete Peerage 4:196-97,Derby,
including some mention of Thomas, the brother of William de Ferrers who was
given Chartley. Footnote (b) on p. 4:197 reads:
"(b) Fine Roll, 32 Hen. III, m. 14. On 16 Feb. 1248/9, he [William] was
ordered to restore to Thomas his br. the castle and manor of Chartley, which
A., Countess of Derby, their mother, had given to Thomas. (Close Roll, 33
Hen. III, m. 13d). This manor had belonged to Stephen de Beauchamp, and the
Earls of Chester had purchased it from Stephen's sisters and coheirs in 1222
and 1225. (Feet of Fines, case 208, file 3, nos. 24, 25, 44; case 272, file
8, no. 19). In Trinity term 1262 Thomas was suing Margaret, the Earl's
widow, for the manor of Chartley. (Assize Roll, no. 954, m. 40d)."
Farrer's "Honors and Knights Fees", pp. 2-9 and 10, also tells us that
Ranulph de Blundeville d.s.p. and gives more details on each of his four
sisters and their issue. For Agnes, he says:
"III. Agnes, third sister of earl Ranulf, m. in 1192 (23) William de
Ferrers, earl of Derby, who d. 22 September 1247; she d. 2 November 1247.
Issue--
i. William de Ferrers, 5th earl of Derby, succeeded his mother in
November, 1247; he d. 28 March, 1254.
I. Robert de Ferrers, 6th earl of Derby, b. about 1239, succeeded
in 1254; forfeited his honor and lands in 1266; d. 1279.
....(23) 'Stemmata Shirleiana', App. n.13."
If the approximate date given this transcribed ancient petition is
incorrect, and at least one significant entry in the text is incorrect, how
reliable is the rest of the transcription?
Robert Forrest
-
WJhonson
Re: Petition from Eleanor de Bohun, widow of Robert de Ferre
There are two CPR entries that purtain to this Thomas de Ferrers' holding of Chartley (called Certele Castle), which I've extracted below.
Will Johnson
---------------
http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e ... ge0009.pdf
CPR, Edward 1, Vol 1, page 9
1273, May 6, Westminster
"Mandate to Roger Lestrange to deliver the custody of Certele castle to Master Richard de Clifford, king's clerk, escheator this side of Trent, to whom it is committed, so that no contention may arise among the magnates, until further order is made by the king or his lieutenants."
http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e ... ge0156.pdf
CPR, Edward 1, Vol 1, page 156
1276, July 26 at Westminster
"Grant to him in tail general of the castle of Certele, late of Thomas de Ferrar[iis], which lately came to the king by a judgment of the king's court. Mandate to Bogo de Knovill to deliver it to him."
Will Johnson
---------------
http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e ... ge0009.pdf
CPR, Edward 1, Vol 1, page 9
1273, May 6, Westminster
"Mandate to Roger Lestrange to deliver the custody of Certele castle to Master Richard de Clifford, king's clerk, escheator this side of Trent, to whom it is committed, so that no contention may arise among the magnates, until further order is made by the king or his lieutenants."
http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e ... ge0156.pdf
CPR, Edward 1, Vol 1, page 156
1276, July 26 at Westminster
"Grant to him in tail general of the castle of Certele, late of Thomas de Ferrar[iis], which lately came to the king by a judgment of the king's court. Mandate to Bogo de Knovill to deliver it to him."
-
Douglas Richardson
Re: Petition from Eleanor de Bohun, widow of Robert de Ferre
Dear Newsgroup ~
As presented by Will in his post below, he has implied that either
Roger le Strange or Master Richard de Clifford of his first enty was
the person who was granted Chartley Castle in 1276 in his second
entry. However, the second entry dated 1276 indicates that the grant
in that year was to Edmund, the king's brother, not to Roger le
Strange or Master Richard de Clifford. This explains the subsequent
petition of Eleanor de Bohun, widow of Robert de Ferrers, who
complained that Earl Edmund had disseised her of Chartley.
Eleanor's petition was evidently successful. I find that in 1286 a
commission was appointed by the king to investigate the persons who
hunted and carried away deer and felled and carried away trees in the
park of Eleanor late the wife of Robert de Ferrers at Chartley,
Staffordshire [Reference: Calendar of Patent Rolls, 1281-1292 (1893):
208].. Also, In 1294 her son, John de Ferrers, then of age, had
license to demise the manor of Chartley, Staffordshire held in chief
to Robert de Bures for life at an annual rent of 30l., in exchange for
Bures, Suffolk, granted to him in fee simple by the said Robert
{Reference: Calendar of Patent Rolls, 1292-1301 (1895): 86].
PRO Document, C 143/109/10 dated 1314-1315 indicates that Petronilla
[Pernel] daughter of John de Ferariis and Eleanor her sister to
allowed to retain rent acquired from their said father, arising from
the manor of Chartley, Staffordshire, demised by him to Robert de
Bures the elder for the life of the said Robert, with whose life the
said rent was to cease. An abstract of this document is available
online at http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
On Sep 14, 8:07 pm, WJhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
< There are two CPR entries that purtain to this Thomas de Ferrers'
holding of Chartley (called Certele Castle), which I've extracted
below.
< Will Johnson
< ---------------http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e1v1/body/
Edward1vol1page0009.pdf
< CPR, Edward 1, Vol 1, page 9
< 1273, May 6, Westminster
< "Mandate to Roger Lestrange to deliver the custody of Certele castle
to Master Richard de Clifford, king's clerk, escheator this side of
Trent, to whom it is committed, so that no contention may arise among
the magnates, until further order is made by the king or his
lieutenants."http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e1v1/body/
Edward1vol1page0156.pdf
< CPR, Edward 1, Vol 1, page 156
< 1276, July 26 at Westminster
> "Grant to him in tail general of the castle of Certele, late of Thomas de Ferrar[iis], which lately came to the king by a judgment of the king's court. Mandate to Bogo de Knovill to deliver it to him."
As presented by Will in his post below, he has implied that either
Roger le Strange or Master Richard de Clifford of his first enty was
the person who was granted Chartley Castle in 1276 in his second
entry. However, the second entry dated 1276 indicates that the grant
in that year was to Edmund, the king's brother, not to Roger le
Strange or Master Richard de Clifford. This explains the subsequent
petition of Eleanor de Bohun, widow of Robert de Ferrers, who
complained that Earl Edmund had disseised her of Chartley.
Eleanor's petition was evidently successful. I find that in 1286 a
commission was appointed by the king to investigate the persons who
hunted and carried away deer and felled and carried away trees in the
park of Eleanor late the wife of Robert de Ferrers at Chartley,
Staffordshire [Reference: Calendar of Patent Rolls, 1281-1292 (1893):
208].. Also, In 1294 her son, John de Ferrers, then of age, had
license to demise the manor of Chartley, Staffordshire held in chief
to Robert de Bures for life at an annual rent of 30l., in exchange for
Bures, Suffolk, granted to him in fee simple by the said Robert
{Reference: Calendar of Patent Rolls, 1292-1301 (1895): 86].
PRO Document, C 143/109/10 dated 1314-1315 indicates that Petronilla
[Pernel] daughter of John de Ferariis and Eleanor her sister to
allowed to retain rent acquired from their said father, arising from
the manor of Chartley, Staffordshire, demised by him to Robert de
Bures the elder for the life of the said Robert, with whose life the
said rent was to cease. An abstract of this document is available
online at http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
On Sep 14, 8:07 pm, WJhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
< There are two CPR entries that purtain to this Thomas de Ferrers'
holding of Chartley (called Certele Castle), which I've extracted
below.
< Will Johnson
< ---------------http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e1v1/body/
Edward1vol1page0009.pdf
< CPR, Edward 1, Vol 1, page 9
< 1273, May 6, Westminster
< "Mandate to Roger Lestrange to deliver the custody of Certele castle
to Master Richard de Clifford, king's clerk, escheator this side of
Trent, to whom it is committed, so that no contention may arise among
the magnates, until further order is made by the king or his
lieutenants."http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e1v1/body/
Edward1vol1page0156.pdf
< CPR, Edward 1, Vol 1, page 156
< 1276, July 26 at Westminster
> "Grant to him in tail general of the castle of Certele, late of Thomas de Ferrar[iis], which lately came to the king by a judgment of the king's court. Mandate to Bogo de Knovill to deliver it to him."