Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romney's

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D. Spencer Hines

Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romney's

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 09 sep 2007 21:17:12

Interesting...

Now let's see some in-depth family research of this sort on the Clintons --
both of them, since hers will be a Co-Presidency -- 2 for 1, you know.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romney's Family Tree

Saturday , February 24, 2007
FoxNews

While Mitt Romney condemns polygamy and its prior practice by his Mormon
church, the Republican presidential candidate's great-grandfather had five
wives and at least one of his great-great grandfathers had 12.

Polygamy was not just a historical footnote, but a prominent element in the
family tree of the former Massachusetts governor now seeking to become the
first Mormon president.

Romney's great-grandfather, Miles Park Romney, married his fifth wife in
1897. That was more than six years after Mormon leaders banned polygamy and
more than three decades after a federal law barred the practice.

Romney's great-grandmother, Hannah Hood Hill, was the daughter of
polygamists. She wrote vividly in her autobiography about how she "used to
walk the floor and shed tears of sorrow" over her own husband's multiple
marriages.

Romney's great-great grandfather, Parley Pratt, an apostle in the church,
had 12 wives. In an 1852 sermon, Parley Pratt's brother and fellow apostle,
Orson Pratt, became the first church official to publicly proclaim and
defend polygamy as a direct revelation from God.

Romney's father, former Michigan Gov. George Romney, was born in Chihuahua,
Mexico, where Mormons fled in the 1800s to escape religious persecution and
U.S. laws forbidding polygamy. He and his family did not return to the
United States until 1912, more than two decades after the church issued "The
Manifesto" banning polygamy.

"When you read the family's history, you realize how important polygamy was
to them," said Todd Compton, a Mormon and independent historian who wrote a
book about the polygamous life of the church's founder, Joseph Smith. "They
left America and started again as pioneers, after they had done it over and
over again previously."

B. Carmon Hardy, a polygamy expert and retired history professor at
California State University-Fullerton, said polygamy was "a very important
part of Miles Park Romney's family."

Hardy added: "Now, very gradually, as you moved farther away from it, it
became less a part of it. But during the time of Miles Park Romney, it was
an essential principle of the Romney family life."

Other Mormons have run for the White House, including Romney's father in
1968 and Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, in 2000. But Mitt Romney's stature as a
leading 2008 contender has renewed questions about his faith and its
doctrines.

At the same time, polygamy remains a part of current events.

HBO is airing a television series, "Big Love," that features a man in Utah —
where the Mormon church is based — with three wives. Self-proclaimed "Mormon
fundamentalist" Warren Jeffs, formerly on the FBI's 10 most wanted list,
faces charges for facilitating polygamy among his breakaway church's 10,000
members in Utah and Arizona.

Romney has joked about polygamy, saying in various settings that to him,
"marriage is between a man and a woman ... and a woman and a woman." But in
serious moments he has called the practice "bizarre" and noted his church
excommunicates those who engage in it.

An introductory film played at his fundraisers and campaign appearances
features his wife, Ann, talking about their 37-year marriage. Romney himself
notes they started as high school sweethearts.

This month, Ann Romney tried a different tack, taking a lighthearted jab at
her husband's main Republican competitors, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and
former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, as she introduced Romney at a
Missouri GOP dinner.

The biggest difference between her husband and the other candidates, Ann
Romney said, is that "he's had only one wife."

WELL DONE! -- DSH

McCain has been married twice; Giuliani three times.

The Romney campaign had no comment for this story.

Joseph Smith, who founded the Mormon church in 1830, quietly introduced
polygamy. He believed it had roots in the Old Testament and was necessary to
reach the highest salvation in heaven. Smith is believed to have had 33
wives.

Brigham Young expanded the practice after the church's migration from the
Midwest to Utah, which began in 1846. He is said to have had 55 wives.
Historical texts show Young also asked Orson Pratt to publicly proclaim the
church's belief in polygamy in 1852.

In 1862, while Utah was a territory, President Abraham Lincoln signed the
Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act, banning plural marriage. In 1882, Congress also
passed the Edmunds Act, an anti-polygamy law. That was followed in 1887 by
the Edmunds-Tucker Act, which disincorporated the church and threatened to
seize its nonreligious real estate as part of the crackdown on polygamy.

In 1890, Mormon President Wilford Woodruff issued "The Manifesto," in which
he declared the church no longer taught or permitted plural marriages.

Nonetheless, the law of polygamy — Smith's revelation that God authorized
polygamy — remains in Article 132 of the church's Doctrine and Covenants. In
addition, Mormon widowers who remarry today believe they will live in
eternity with their multiple wives.

Mormon genealogical records, among the most detailed and complete of any
religion, show that two of Mitt Romney's great-great grandfathers, Miles
Romney and Parley Pratt, had 12 wives each.

Compton, the polygamy scholar, disputes that. He believes Miles Romney only
had one wife because the records do not show the dates for his other 11
marriages or any offspring from them.

Miles Romney and his one clearly documented wife, Elizabeth Gaskell, had 10
children. Among them was Miles Park Romney, one of Mitt Romney's
great-grandfathers.

Miles Park Romney had five wives. With his first wife, Hannah Hood Hill, he
had 11 children. Among them was Gaskell Romney, Mitt Romney's paternal
grandfather.

Hannah Hood Hill's autobiography offers an eyewitness account of the Romney
family's polygamous past. Hardy, the Cal-State historian, found it amid
research for his upcoming book, "Doing the Works of Abraham: Mormon
Polygamy."

Hood Hill wrote of Miles Park Romney: "I felt that was more than I could
endure, to have him divide his time and affections from me. I used to walk
the floor and shed tears of sorrow. If anything will make a woman's heart
ache, it is for her husband to take another wife. ... But I put my trust in
my heavenly father, and prayed and pleaded with him to give me strength to
bear this great trial."

Miles Park Romney's final marriage, to Emily Eyring Smith, came in 1897,
more than six years after "The Manifesto."

Gaskell Romney, Mitt Romney's grandfather, was not a polygamist. He married
Anna Amelia Pratt, the daughter of polygamists and the granddaughter of
Parley Pratt, the apostle with 12 wives. Their marriage took place Feb. 20,
1895, in Dublan, Mexico.

Gaskell Romney had moved to Mexico with his parents in 1884 amid the
proliferation of U.S. laws prohibiting "unlawful cohabitation." Anna Pratt
was born in Utah, but had emigrated to Mexico and lived in one of nine
Mormon colonies established over the border.

Gaskell Romney and Anna Pratt had seven children, including George Wilcken
Romney, the former Michigan governor. He lived with his parents in Mexico
until 1912, when the family returned to the United States.

George Romney married Lenore LaFount, who does not appear to have polygamy
in her family tree. The couple, now deceased, had four children, including
Mitt Romney.

Séimí mac Liam

Re: Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romn

Legg inn av Séimí mac Liam » 10 sep 2007 22:45:23

"Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmucci@rcn.com> wrote in
news:g7Gdne_jdIedAHjbnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@rcn.net:

he main reason for polygamy was the fact that the early mormons had many
more women than men.


Who fed you that pparticular bit of bullshit?

--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99

the_verminator@comcast.ne

Re: Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romn

Legg inn av the_verminator@comcast.ne » 10 sep 2007 23:17:43

On Sep 10, 2:37 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmu...@rcn.com> wrote:
"D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote in messagenews:8zYEi.56$DU5.340@eagle.america.net...





Interesting...

Now let's see some in-depth family research of this sort on the
Clintons --
both of them, since hers will be a Co-Presidency -- 2 for 1, you know.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romney's Family Tree

Saturday , February 24, 2007
FoxNews

While Mitt Romney condemns polygamy and its prior practice by his Mormon
church, the Republican presidential candidate's great-grandfather had five
wives and at least one of his great-great grandfathers had 12.

and what relevence does that have. we all know the history of the mormons.
the main reason for polygamy was the fact that the early mormons had many
more women than men.

mitt has one wife and as he lives in massachusetts he probably won't get any
more.
and so what if he does. if some guys wants 12 wives and 12 women are fine
with it then power to them. it in no way affects me or anybody else.
.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What man in his right mind wants to deal with 12 (TWELVE!) Mothers-in
law ?? !!!

Ray O'Hara

Re: Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romn

Legg inn av Ray O'Hara » 11 sep 2007 01:55:33

"Séimí mac Liam" <gwyddon@comcast.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99A78BECF37A1Sim@216.196.97.136...
"Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmucci@rcn.com> wrote in
news:g7Gdne_jdIedAHjbnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@rcn.net:

he main reason for polygamy was the fact that the early mormons had many
more women than men.


Who fed you that pparticular bit of bullshit?

no society is going to let one man have 34 wives{joe smith} while others
have none. those with none will get ugly.

Ray O'Hara

Re: Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romn

Legg inn av Ray O'Hara » 11 sep 2007 01:55:52

<the_verminator@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1189462663.318888.208700@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 10, 2:37 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmu...@rcn.com> wrote:
"D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote in
messagenews:8zYEi.56$DU5.340@eagle.america.net...





Interesting...

Now let's see some in-depth family research of this sort on the
Clintons --
both of them, since hers will be a Co-Presidency -- 2 for 1, you know.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romney's Family
Tree

Saturday , February 24, 2007
FoxNews

While Mitt Romney condemns polygamy and its prior practice by his
Mormon
church, the Republican presidential candidate's great-grandfather had
five
wives and at least one of his great-great grandfathers had 12.

and what relevence does that have. we all know the history of the
mormons.
the main reason for polygamy was the fact that the early mormons had
many
more women than men.

mitt has one wife and as he lives in massachusetts he probably won't get
any
more.
and so what if he does. if some guys wants 12 wives and 12 women are
fine
with it then power to them. it in no way affects me or anybody else.
.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What man in his right mind wants to deal with 12 (TWELVE!) Mothers-in
law ?? !!!


indeed

Séimí mac Liam

Re: Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romn

Legg inn av Séimí mac Liam » 11 sep 2007 05:59:40

"Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmucci@rcn.com> wrote in
news:SaOdnTpBmcMbenjbnZ2dnUVZ_s2tnZ2d@rcn.net:

"Séimí mac Liam" <gwyddon@comcast.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99A78BECF37A1Sim@216.196.97.136...
"Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmucci@rcn.com> wrote in
news:g7Gdne_jdIedAHjbnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@rcn.net:

he main reason for polygamy was the fact that the early mormons had
many more women than men.


Who fed you that pparticular bit of bullshit?

no society is going to let one man have 34 wives{joe smith} while
others
have none. those with none will get ugly.




So...if you wanted to have 34 wives what would you do to or with the
young bucks who are in love with them?

--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99

a425couple

Re: Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romn

Legg inn av a425couple » 11 sep 2007 16:32:40

"Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmucci@rcn.com> wrote
"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in
Now let's see some in-depth family research of this sort on the
Clintons -- both of them, since hers will be a Co-Presidency --

Polygamy Prominent in ---- Mitt Romney's Family Tree
While Mitt Romney condemns polygamy and its prior practice by
his Mormon church, the Republican presidential candidate's
great-grandfather had five wives and at least one of his
great-great grandfathers had 12.

and what relevence does that have. ---
mitt has one wife and as he lives in massachusetts he probably
won't get any more.

Come on Ray, we all should know by now the regular and repeated
viewpoint of Hines, is that he feels justified in tarnishing anyone
he wants by pointing out what any relative, any number of
generations removed, has ever done.

And in similar manner, that by showing that some worthy
people are related to him, he thinks this shows his worth.

IMHO, very un 'American' of him.
Very class based.
I like to think as individuals and as a country we are making
great progress in evaluating individuals for what they are
and have accomplished.

IMHO, USA = What a country!
Where so many have risen from their low beginnings
to wealth, power, and greatness.

Ray O'Hara

Re: Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romn

Legg inn av Ray O'Hara » 11 sep 2007 19:12:52

"a425couple" <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tLKdnRrF5O1VKXvbnZ2dnUVZ_sSlnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmucci@rcn.com> wrote
"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in
Now let's see some in-depth family research of this sort on the
Clintons -- both of them, since hers will be a Co-Presidency --

Polygamy Prominent in ---- Mitt Romney's Family Tree
While Mitt Romney condemns polygamy and its prior practice by
his Mormon church, the Republican presidential candidate's
great-grandfather had five wives and at least one of his
great-great grandfathers had 12.

and what relevence does that have. ---
mitt has one wife and as he lives in massachusetts he probably
won't get any more.

Come on Ray, we all should know by now the regular and repeated
viewpoint of Hines, is that he feels justified in tarnishing anyone
he wants by pointing out what any relative, any number of
generations removed, has ever done.

And in similar manner, that by showing that some worthy
people are related to him, he thinks this shows his worth.

yeah. he thrives on reflected glory.


the truth about mitt is that he is a first class businessman but no
politician. although like any pol he'll say whatever he thinks it takes o
get votes.
but deep down he stands for nothing.

Duvall, Jeffery A

RE: Settipani's book on Byzantine families

Legg inn av Duvall, Jeffery A » 11 sep 2007 19:31:13

Has anyone seen a copy of Christian Settipani's latest book, "Continuité des élites à Byzance durant les siècles obscurs. Les princes caucasiens et l'Empire du VIe au IXe siècle" (2006)? I gather that it's now available (http://www.deboccard.com/anglais/Rub/cata.htm), but I don't recall anyone mentioning it on the list.

Jeff Duvall

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Settipani's book on Byzantine families

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 11 sep 2007 19:56:59

In article <mailman.2163.1189535525.7287.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>,
"Duvall, Jeffery A" <jduvall@iupui.edu> wrote:

Has anyone seen a copy of Christian Settipani's latest book, "Continuité des
élites à Byzance durant les siècles obscurs. Les princes caucasiens et
l'Empire du VIe au IXe siècle" (2006)? I gather that it's now available
(http://www.deboccard.com/anglais/Rub/cata.htm), but I don't recall anyone
mentioning it on the list.

Well spotted! I have not seen it.

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

jluc soler

Re: Settipani's book on Byzantine families

Legg inn av jluc soler » 11 sep 2007 22:39:41

i 'll receuve my copy tomorrow :o)



JL


"Nathaniel Taylor" <nathanieltaylor@earthlink.net> a écrit dans le message
de news:
nathanieltaylor-08F70C.14565911092007@e ... ernews.net...
In article <mailman.2163.1189535525.7287.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>,
"Duvall, Jeffery A" <jduvall@iupui.edu> wrote:

Has anyone seen a copy of Christian Settipani's latest book, "Continuité
des
élites à Byzance durant les siècles obscurs. Les princes caucasiens et
l'Empire du VIe au IXe siècle" (2006)? I gather that it's now available
(http://www.deboccard.com/anglais/Rub/cata.htm), but I don't recall
anyone
mentioning it on the list.

Well spotted! I have not seen it.

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

Sybilla

Re: Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romn

Legg inn av Sybilla » 12 sep 2007 04:22:43

On Sep 9, 1:17 pm, "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote:
Interesting...

Now let's see some in-depth family research of this sort on the Clintons --
both of them, since hers will be a Co-Presidency -- 2 for 1, you know.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romney's Family Tree

Saturday , February 24, 2007
FoxNews

While Mitt Romney condemns polygamy and its prior practice by his Mormon
church, the Republican presidential candidate's great-grandfather had five
wives and at least one of his great-great grandfathers had 12.

Polygamy was not just a historical footnote, but a prominent element in the
family tree of the former Massachusetts governor now seeking to become the
first Mormon president.

Romney's great-grandfather, Miles Park Romney, married his fifth wife in
1897. That was more than six years after Mormon leaders banned polygamy and
more than three decades after a federal law barred the practice.

Romney's great-grandmother, Hannah Hood Hill, was the daughter of
polygamists. She wrote vividly in her autobiography about how she "used to
walk the floor and shed tears of sorrow" over her own husband's multiple
marriages.

Romney's great-great grandfather, Parley Pratt, an apostle in the church,
had 12 wives. In an 1852 sermon, Parley Pratt's brother and fellow apostle,
Orson Pratt, became the first church official to publicly proclaim and
defend polygamy as a direct revelation from God.

Romney's father, former Michigan Gov. George Romney, was born in Chihuahua,
Mexico, where Mormons fled in the 1800s to escape religious persecution and
U.S. laws forbidding polygamy. He and his family did not return to the
United States until 1912, more than two decades after the church issued "The
Manifesto" banning polygamy.

"When you read the family's history, you realize how important polygamy was
to them," said Todd Compton, a Mormon and independent historian who wrote a
book about the polygamous life of the church's founder, Joseph Smith. "They
left America and started again as pioneers, after they had done it over and
over again previously."

B. Carmon Hardy, a polygamy expert and retired history professor at
California State University-Fullerton, said polygamy was "a very important
part of Miles Park Romney's family."

Hardy added: "Now, very gradually, as you moved farther away from it, it
became less a part of it. But during the time of Miles Park Romney, it was
an essential principle of the Romney family life."

Other Mormons have run for the White House, including Romney's father in
1968 and Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, in 2000. But Mitt Romney's stature as a
leading 2008 contender has renewed questions about his faith and its
doctrines.

At the same time, polygamy remains a part of current events.

HBO is airing a television series, "Big Love," that features a man in Utah -
where the Mormon church is based - with three wives. Self-proclaimed "Mormon
fundamentalist" Warren Jeffs, formerly on the FBI's 10 most wanted list,
faces charges for facilitating polygamy among his breakaway church's 10,000
members in Utah and Arizona.

Romney has joked about polygamy, saying in various settings that to him,
"marriage is between a man and a woman ... and a woman and a woman." But in
serious moments he has called the practice "bizarre" and noted his church
excommunicates those who engage in it.

An introductory film played at his fundraisers and campaign appearances
features his wife, Ann, talking about their 37-year marriage. Romney himself
notes they started as high school sweethearts.

This month, Ann Romney tried a different tack, taking a lighthearted jab at
her husband's main Republican competitors, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and
former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, as she introduced Romney at a
Missouri GOP dinner.

The biggest difference between her husband and the other candidates, Ann
Romney said, is that "he's had only one wife."

WELL DONE! -- DSH

McCain has been married twice; Giuliani three times.

The Romney campaign had no comment for this story.

Joseph Smith, who founded the Mormon church in 1830, quietly introduced
polygamy. He believed it had roots in the Old Testament and was necessary to
reach the highest salvation in heaven. Smith is believed to have had 33
wives.

Brigham Young expanded the practice after the church's migration from the
Midwest to Utah, which began in 1846. He is said to have had 55 wives.
Historical texts show Young also asked Orson Pratt to publicly proclaim the
church's belief in polygamy in 1852.

In 1862, while Utah was a territory, President Abraham Lincoln signed the
Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act, banning plural marriage. In 1882, Congress also
passed the Edmunds Act, an anti-polygamy law. That was followed in 1887 by
the Edmunds-Tucker Act, which disincorporated the church and threatened to
seize its nonreligious real estate as part of the crackdown on polygamy.

In 1890, Mormon President Wilford Woodruff issued "The Manifesto," in which
he declared the church no longer taught or permitted plural marriages.

Nonetheless, the law of polygamy - Smith's revelation that God authorized
polygamy - remains in Article 132 of the church's Doctrine and Covenants. In
addition, Mormon widowers who remarry today believe they will live in
eternity with their multiple wives.

Mormon genealogical records, among the most detailed and complete of any
religion, show that two of Mitt Romney's great-great grandfathers, Miles
Romney and Parley Pratt, had 12 wives each.

Compton, the polygamy scholar, disputes that. He believes Miles Romney only
had one wife because the records do not show the dates for his other 11
marriages or any offspring from them.

Miles Romney and his one clearly documented wife, Elizabeth Gaskell, had 10
children. Among them was Miles Park Romney, one of Mitt Romney's
great-grandfathers.

Miles Park Romney had five wives. With his first wife, Hannah Hood Hill, he
had 11 children. Among them was Gaskell Romney, Mitt Romney's paternal
grandfather.

Hannah Hood Hill's autobiography offers an eyewitness account of the Romney
family's polygamous past. Hardy, the Cal-State historian, found it amid
research for his upcoming book, "Doing the Works of Abraham: Mormon
Polygamy."

Hood Hill wrote of Miles Park Romney: "I felt that was more than I could
endure, to have him divide his time and affections from me. I used to walk
the floor and shed tears of sorrow. If anything will make a woman's heart
ache, it is for her husband to take another wife. ... But I put my trust in
my heavenly father, and prayed and pleaded with him to give me strength to
bear this great trial."

Miles Park Romney's final marriage, to Emily Eyring Smith, came in 1897,
more than six years after "The Manifesto."

Gaskell Romney, Mitt Romney's grandfather, was not a polygamist. He married
Anna Amelia Pratt, the daughter of polygamists and the granddaughter of
Parley Pratt, the apostle with 12 wives. Their marriage took place Feb. 20,
1895, in Dublan, Mexico.

Gaskell Romney had moved to Mexico with his parents in 1884 amid the
proliferation of U.S. laws prohibiting "unlawful cohabitation." Anna Pratt
was born in Utah, but had emigrated to Mexico and lived in one of nine
Mormon colonies established over the border.

Gaskell Romney and Anna Pratt had seven children, including George Wilcken
Romney, the former Michigan governor. He lived with his parents in Mexico
until 1912, when the family returned to the United States.

George Romney married Lenore LaFount, who does not appear to have polygamy
in her family tree. The couple, now deceased, had four children, including
Mitt Romney.

Sorry, I really fail to see how ones ancestors's actions and
relationships are a reflection on oneself. I truely know not one thing
about this fellow, but why should his candiacy hang in the balance
because of his fathers choices? Do the candidates own choices not
count? Perhaps there is more to this than I know.
(And, just as an aside, I'd like to point out that many people of no
particular religeous or political background, have adopted polygamy
and/or polyamoury as their own best course. I would advise strongly
against making any generalisations about relationships you yourself
are not nvolved in.)
Sybilla

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romn

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 12 sep 2007 05:23:36

Fascinating...

But even more important...who were his Mediaeval Ancestors?

Watson, the game's afoot.

And we'll find them.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Romney ancestor fled Army, joined LDS Church

By Lee Davidson

Deseret Morning News

Published: September 8, 2007

It may not be what a presidential candidate would want historians
discussing, as they did Friday. But exactly 150 years ago, an ancestor of
Mitt Romney deserted from U.S. Army troops sent to put down a purported
Mormon rebellion in Utah.

Carl Heinrich (Charles Henry) Wilcken, Romney's great-great-grandfather,
would give Mormons information about approaching troops, eventually joined
the LDS Church and ultimately became a bodyguard and confidant of two church
presidents.

The middle name of Romney's father, former Michigan Gov. George W. Romney
(also once a presidential candidate), is Wilcken, after that
soldier-ancestor.

The little-known soldier in the little-known "Utah War" was a topic Friday
at the annual Utah State History Conference. Several seminars focused on the
150th anniversary of that "war," in which President James Buchanan sent
troops against Mormons in 1857-58 after ex-officials convinced him that
Mormons would not submit to federal law.

Mormons saw that as a renewal of persecution and sent militia to face the
army in what was essentially a mini-civil war four years before the real
thing between North and South. Little shooting occurred, as Buchanan
eventually gave amnesty to Mormons as they accepted a non-Mormon governor
and a permanent garrison of U.S. troops.

Amateur historian Steve Richardson presented a paper Friday that discussed
Wilcken, who he said had previously been awarded the Iron Cross by the king
of Prussia for service in its war against Denmark.

After that war, Denmark attempted to draft former Prussian soldiers living
in its acquired regions of Scheswig-Holstein. So Wilcken decided to leave
and join friends in Argentina but had only enough money to make it to New
York.

Fascinating... -- DSH

Richardson said Wilcken was unable to find work, so he joined the U.S. Army
and was sent on the "Utah expedition."

"He was unhappy with the lack of discipline of the soldiers," Richardson
said. "He had a low opinion of other soldiers," as they talked about
possibly hanging or jailing Mormon leaders and "appropriating" their wives
and daughters.

Wilcken saw poor protection by U.S. troops, which allowed Mormon militia to
burn forage in front of the approaching army. LDS soldiers also burned many
of the federal supply wagons and ran off the army's livestock. Soldiers had
little to eat. Their winter camp in Wyoming would be one of the hardest in
the history of the U.S. Army.

Wilcken decided to desert and head for Salt Lake City. But, Richardson said,
Wilcken reported a spiritual experience that delayed that action for a day
and possibly saved him from being jailed or shot.

As he was about to desert, he said he "heard a voice calling his name" - his
real name, not the assumed name he used to enlist. Two other times as he was
to leave, he heard his name called and stopped. Wilcken later learned that
the cavalry had been on patrol all night watching Mormon camps and likely
would have caught him.

Richardson said, "That night, he had a dream telling him to ask his captain
for permission to go out hunting the next day, and he would meet some
friends." He did exactly that, deserted and met Mormons who escorted him
back to their lines. That was on Oct. 7, 1857, 150 years ago next month.

Richardson said Wilcken was impressed with Mormons and their lack of the
cursing and fighting that he had seen with U.S. troops. Wilcken provided
Mormons with information about conditions of the U.S. Army and went to Salt
Lake City.

Historian William P. MacKinnon added that Wilcken's U.S. Army captain, John
W. Phelps, wrote in his diary about Wilcken's disappearance and "talked
about what a fine man he was and how different he was from another man who
deserted."

MacKinnon noted that Phelps, who would become a Union general in the Civil
War, ran for president in 1880 but received only a few hundred votes.
Wilcken's Romney descendants have done better than that in their campaigns
for president.

Wilcken was baptized into the LDS Church only two months after he deserted
the Army and later had plural wives. In later years, he became a messenger
and bodyguard for LDS President John Taylor, who was, at times, in hiding
during federal anti-polygamy crusades. He also was a bodyguard for President
Wilford Woodruff, who succeeded John Taylor and ultimately led the church
away from the practice of polygamy.

Mitt Romney's campaign declined comment on the story.

Gjest

Re: Polygamy Prominent in GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romn

Legg inn av Gjest » 12 sep 2007 06:42:17

The idea is true enough, Kay, but remember also that the church could
and would/did cut-off people who did not toe the line. They could lose
property, business, and, as Big Love illustrates, wives. Such as John
D. Lee's wife who was threatened with being left out in the cold with
a young child if memory serves me correctly when he stuck by his word
that the Mountain Meadows Massacre was carried out at the behest of
church leaders. Or, indeed, anyone who operated a non-Mormon owned
business when the church decided that they were an inconvenience that
could be done away with, was done away with economically.

Judy
http://www.katherineswynford.net
http://katherineswynford.blogspot.com


On Sep 10, 7:34 pm, Kay Allen <all...@pacbell.net> wrote:
You must remember that in that day and age a woman had
to have a "protecter." In some peoples' minds a woman
was legally incompetent.

Many of Brigham Young's wives were in that category, I
believe that
Joseph Smith's wives were also in that category.

As to the fact of some men having none, a LDS women
couldn't be forced to marry a man who was not to her
likeing just to have a husband.

Emmeline Wells married a husband in the East. He
returned home and was never seen again. So she married
Newell Whitney as a plural wife.
He died, leaving her alone, once again. She went to a
friend of her husband's friends and virtually begged
him to marry her, which he reluctantly did. He
provided her with a home. Later his finances failed
and Emmeline was able to lend him some, as she had
become the editor of one of the early newspapers. And
it is recorded that in their later years, they
conducted themselves like teenagers.

Kay Allen AG

--- Ray O'Hara <mary.palmu...@rcn.com> wrote:



"Séimí mac Liam" <gwyd...@comcast.nospam.net> wrote
in message
news:Xns99A78BECF37A1Sim@216.196.97.136...
"Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmu...@rcn.com> wrote in
news:g7Gdne_jdIedAHjbnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@rcn.net:

he main reason for polygamy was the fact that
the early mormons had many
more women than men.

Who fed you that pparticular bit of bullshit?

no society is going to let one man have 34
wives{joe smith} while others
have none. those with none will get ugly.

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