Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

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D. Spencer Hines

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 10 sep 2007 23:48:30

Have you ever been blind-sided by an ancestor in the same fashion?

DSH

"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:fc4g7e$t7d$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu...

D. Spencer Hines wrote:

Bingo!

Shooting the grouse and the deer.

I'm more worried about being run into by them!
Well, deer and grouse and pheasants. In the park where
I exercise every morning they are all over ... I see deer
every day and the birds a couple of times a week. And
they are known to run into people. I've been hit by both
deer and pheasants (in flight). It hurts! They come
out of the bushes at you seemingly randomly and
oblivious to you. You can't see them until its too late.

Doug McDonald

Dana S. Leslie

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av Dana S. Leslie » 11 sep 2007 00:11:02

I'm more worried about being run into by them!
Well, deer and grouse and pheasants. In the park where
I exercise every morning they are all over ... I see deer
every day and the birds a couple of times a week. And
they are known to run into people. I've been hit by both
deer and pheasants (in flight).

That's amazing! Deer in flight!

Paul J Gans

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av Paul J Gans » 11 sep 2007 03:00:02

In alt.history.british Normandy <aabbcc@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

"Paul J Gans" <gans@panix.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:
fc257g$8rb$4@reader1.panix.com...
In alt.history.british Normandy <aabbcc@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> a ?crit dans le message de
news: fc103b$jfq$2@news.ks.uiuc.edu...
Normandy wrote:
Worthless, Tongue-Flapping Bromide...


Would you please give us your descent? We can guess it,
of course, short as it is: from the fair soil of the earth to the
sock factory, and thence here.

Doug McDonald

Mine traces back to Hasting the Pirate on the paternal side and Charles
Martel on the maternal side.

Ghod, I hope not. There is no real evidence that "Hasting"
ever existed.

Yes, I know he has listed descendents, etc., but then, so does
Adam.

--
--- Paul J. Gans
Dudo of St-Quentin speaks of him in his 'De moribus'. In another Dudo work,
'Historia Norrmannorum', he says that when Charles the Simple demanded that
Rollon kiss his foot as a sign of fealty Rollon (Rollo or HRolf) refused. He
sent Hasting to do the job. According to Dudo Hasting instead of bending
down brought the king's foot to his mouth pitching the king in the mud. my
ancestor listed on the Caen roll was allegedly descended from Hasting. True
or a Norman myth, I do not know.

Dudo is NOT a reliable source. He was commissioned to write
a family history of the rulers of Normandy by Duke Richard II
(996-1026) and Dudo was given a lifetime stipend for it.

It is a pangyric to the virtues of the Norman rulers, laid
on so thick in places that it is hard to maintain a straight
face. For several hundred years Dudo has been taken at face
value, but in the last 50-75 years he'd been re-examined,
deconstructed, and largely discredited, especially in the early
parts of his story.

There is a fascinating book by Emily Albu titled "The Normans
in their Histories" which ought to be required reading for
*anybody* who needs to consult Norman writers from Dudo
through Orderic Vitalis and down to Wace. And yes, Albu
is a serious historian widely regarded as top notch by
her peers.

Understanding how the medievals of this period understood
history is paramount to being able to understand what was
written.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but just because something is
written down does not mean that it is accurate. As for
the various rolls, and scrolls you've mentioned, you have
to ask where *their* makers got their information.

One last thing, probably superflous: Don't take any
crap from the giant ignoramous and liar, Hines.

--
--- Paul J. Gans

Paul J Gans

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av Paul J Gans » 11 sep 2007 03:30:02

In alt.history.british Patrick Cracroft-Brennan <hmedia@heraldicmedia.com> wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:08:51 +0100, "D. Spencer Hines"
panther@excelsior.com> wrote:

Nope...

No Sale.

A Companion of the Conqueror has to have made the crossing with Guillaume,
duc de Normandie and been present somewhere at the Battle of Hastings,
Saturday, 14 October 1066 -- where he became Guillaume le Conquerant.

Someone who shared the extreme risks with the Conqueror at this World
Historical Event that sounds echoes to this very day.

Sorry you can't find at least one CoC of your own. Emphasis on CONQUERING
those ruddy English at Hastings.

Of course, as we have discovered, if you have one Companion of the Conqueror
you probably have a dozen or so in your grouse bag, after a successful hunt.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 22:05:30 -0700, David <dsalo@softhome.net> wrote:

Probably there were several of William's followers who were not
actually at the battle, but who were otherwise occupied during the
invasion or joined their duke in the days or months after the battle, who
could later have been supposed, or have been remembered by their
descendants, as being present at Hastings (with more honesty than
accuracy).


I really do not understand where you guys are coming from. A descent
from William I and many of the so-called "Companions of the Conqueror"
is pretty easy to prove if you have any English ancestors above the
"ag lab" class . It is no big deal.

In my book a descent from Edward I is pretty common, from Edward III
not unusual, from Henry VII starts to get warm, from Charles II or
James II distinctly interesting and from William IV somewhere
approaching very interesting.

But at the end of the day, does any of this really matter. There is
something distinctly sad about a genealogist who spends hours trying
to prove his or her own descent from ancient royalty. OK, these
things are nice fripperies, but to those who are saying "I've got more
descents from the Companions of the Conqueror than you!", I have only
one thing to say - get a life!

I want to know who this "Guillaume le Conquerant" or that
other fellow, "Guillaume, duc de Normandie" is? As far
as I know the name "Guillaume" appears in neither the
Latin or the Old French of the 11th century. And similarly
there is no place known as "Normandie" recorded in that
period either.

Both phrases are modern French. But these are Anglophone
newsgroups. Perhaps the original author speaks no English?

--
--- Paul J. Gans

Patrick Cracroft-Brennan

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av Patrick Cracroft-Brennan » 11 sep 2007 07:25:08

What nationality is Mr Hines?

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:39:57 +0100, "D. Spencer Hines"
<panther@excelsior.com> wrote:

Bingo!

Shooting the grouse and the deer.

DSH

"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:fc4chh$rjm$2@news.ks.uiuc.edu...

Patrick Cracroft-Brennan wrote:

I really do not understand where you guys are coming from. A descent
from William I and many of the so-called "Companions of the Conqueror"
is pretty easy to prove if you have any English ancestors above the
"ag lab" class . It is no big deal.


Ah, but the fun is in the chase!

Doug McDonald


Patrick Cracroft-Brennan
Editor - Cracroft's Peerage
The Complete Guide to the British Peerage & Baronetage
http://www.cracroftspeerage.co.uk
======================================================

Bryn

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av Bryn » 11 sep 2007 08:30:46

In article <_9kFi.71948$rH6.19008@newsfe22.lga>, Dana S. Leslie
<dsleslie@alumni.princeton.edu> writes
I'm more worried about being run into by them!
Well, deer and grouse and pheasants. In the park where
I exercise every morning they are all over ... I see deer
every day and the birds a couple of times a week. And
they are known to run into people. I've been hit by both
deer and pheasants (in flight).

That's amazing! Deer in flight!

The flying pigs are even more spectacular.


--
Bryn

Whose anscestor was _removed_ from the Battle Roll. Beat that!

Here's to you Jonathan Briley, not falling but flying.

a.spencer3

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av a.spencer3 » 11 sep 2007 10:36:41

"Patrick Cracroft-Brennan" <hmedia@heraldicmedia.com> wrote in message
news:05dce392c7fel9i03eoaqbf10uhheiogqe@4ax.com...
What nationality is Mr Hines?


Hawaiian Royal Family, but he probably doesn't want to admit to that one.


Surreyman

Bryn

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av Bryn » 11 sep 2007 14:35:23

In article <JktFi.59$X%4.24@newsfe4-win.ntli.net>, a.spencer3
<a.spencer3@ntlworld.com> writes
"Patrick Cracroft-Brennan" <hmedia@heraldicmedia.com> wrote in message
news:05dce392c7fel9i03eoaqbf10uhheiogqe@4ax.com...

What nationality is Mr Hines?


Hawaiian Royal Family, but he probably doesn't want to admit to that one.

Surreyman

Otherwise known as "Spam-man"!

Is it a Bird? Is it a Man? No its ....etc.


I did find his one on quilting bees, very funny...


--
Bryn

Here's to you Jonathan Briley, not falling but flying.

Normandy

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av Normandy » 11 sep 2007 15:08:59

"a.spencer3" <a.spencer3@ntlworld.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
JktFi.59$X%4.24@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
"Patrick Cracroft-Brennan" <hmedia@heraldicmedia.com> wrote in message
news:05dce392c7fel9i03eoaqbf10uhheiogqe@4ax.com...

What nationality is Mr Hines?


Hawaiian Royal Family, but he probably doesn't want to admit to that one.

Surreyman

Was cousin Diana and is cousin Wills and Cousin Harry also related the
Hawaiian Royal Family? Can you pinpoint the relationship of Queen Lydia
(Spencer-Hines) Liliuokalani to our correspondent?
Normandy

Doug McDonald

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av Doug McDonald » 11 sep 2007 16:13:36

In article <_9kFi.71948$rH6.19008@newsfe22.lga>, Dana S. Leslie
dsleslie@alumni.princeton.edu> writes
I'm more worried about being run into by them!
Well, deer and grouse and pheasants. In the park where
I exercise every morning they are all over ... I see deer
every day and the birds a couple of times a week. And
they are known to run into people. I've been hit by both
deer and pheasants (in flight).
That's amazing! Deer in flight!

Not really. Its how deer move ... fast. They leap.

Ever seen a place called "Stag's Leap"? They are all over.

Try getting hit by a leaping deer, even a modest size doe.
They are flying through the air fast and have lots of momentum.
If you are on a road with curbs or cobblestones you could
end up like Peter Stewart.

So far I've never been hit directly, but only glancing blows.
Even then it once knocked me down into the prairie grass, thankfully.
These are very small deer, of course; we don't have big ones around here.

Doug McDonald

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 11 sep 2007 17:09:16

I fear for your life.

Terrible way to go, hit by a deer while on foot.

Have you considered hiring a beater to proceed you while walking or running?

Perhaps a small boy would do. He'd be more nimble and able to do some
daring deer-dodging.

Are you running or walking when they hit you -- these dangerous, daring,
dancing deer?

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:fc6bb3$isg$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu...
In article <_9kFi.71948$rH6.19008@newsfe22.lga>, Dana S. Leslie
dsleslie@alumni.princeton.edu> writes

I'm more worried about being run into by them!
Well, deer and grouse and pheasants. In the park where
I exercise every morning they are all over ... I see deer
every day and the birds a couple of times a week. And
they are known to run into people. I've been hit by both
deer and pheasants (in flight).
That's amazing! Deer in flight!

Not really. Its how deer move ... fast. They leap.
Ever seen a place called "Stag's Leap"? They are all over.

Try getting hit by a leaping deer, even a modest size doe.
They are flying through the air fast and have lots of momentum.
If you are on a road with curbs or cobblestones you could
end up like Peter Stewart.

So far I've never been hit directly, but only glancing blows.
Even then it once knocked me down into the prairie grass, thankfully.
These are very small deer, of course; we don't have big ones around here.

Doug McDonald

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 11 sep 2007 18:25:21

"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:fc6i0i$let$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu...

D. Spencer Hines wrote:

I fear for your life.

Terrible way to go, hit by a deer while on foot.

Have you considered hiring a beater to proceed you while walking or
running?

Perhaps a small boy would do. He'd be more nimble and able to do some
daring deer-dodging.

Are you running or walking when they hit you -- these dangerous, daring,
dancing deer?


Usually walking at 4.3 mph.

That's a good fast clip -- for walking.

Dear Hines, you're in Hawaii so the terrain
is hard to describe to you. Imagine a sugar cane field, fully grown,
so dense you can't see three feet in it.

Dear McDonald, you think we don't have sugar cane fields in Hawaii?

Boy, do YOU need some remedial education!

And deer run out
of it into your path with no warning. Our prairie is not quite that high,
though it does sometimes get over my head. At this time of year
it is everywhere taller than the deer by quite a lot. You can't hear
them coming over the wind. A beater won't help, since the creatures
hear somebody and run at random.

Small boys are very imaginative and can work out ingenious solutions to such
recondite problems. You should hire or acquire one.

Deer are strange: this summer on vacation I saw one chasing
a coyote across a meadow in the mountains. I was about a
mile away, on horseback at the time, well up a hillside.
Presumably she was chasing the coyote away from her fawn.
This was Colorado.

Sounds Logical...

Doug McDonald

Stay Safe...

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Turenne

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av Turenne » 11 sep 2007 20:09:52

DSH wrote:

Have you considered hiring a beater to proceed you while walking or running?

First you thought that grouse are 'hunted', now you think that beaters
are used whilst stalking deer. For someone with such an impressive
aristocratic lineage, you've got a lot to learn...

I suggest that you do a bit of 'swotting up' before you're invited to
Balmoral.

Richard

Turenne

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av Turenne » 11 sep 2007 21:07:24

DSH wrote:

I shall quote you more fully then,as your memory seems to be suffering
from an outbreak of selectivity:

Terrible way to go, hit by a >>deer<< while on foot.
Have you considered hiring a >>beater<< to proceed you while walking or running?
Perhaps a small boy would do. He'd be more nimble and able to do some
daring >>deer-dodging<<.
Are you running or walking when they hit you -- these dangerous, daring,
dancing >>deer<<?

You really should read your own posts. I know it must be painful
but...

Richard Lichten

(Did you really have to check wiki to discover who Turenne was?)

Dana S. Leslie

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av Dana S. Leslie » 13 sep 2007 01:28:10

I want to know who this "Guillaume le Conquerant" or that
other fellow, "Guillaume, duc de Normandie" is? As far
as I know the name "Guillaume" appears in neither the
Latin or the Old French of the 11th century. And similarly
there is no place known as "Normandie" recorded in that
period either.


This raises a question about which I've often wondered. What did the
inhabitants of that peninsula sticking out of France/Gaul call it, before
the Normans settled upon it? I know Brittany was called Amorica, before the
Britons migrated to it. but I've never heard of a similar predecessor name
for Normandy.
--


Blessed Be,

Dana

D. S. Leslie, née C. R. Guttman
Email: DSLeslie@alumni.princeton.edu
Skype: dsleslie
Web: ÞE OL' PHILOSOPHIE SHOPPE
Your Source for Discounted Ideas
http://members.cox.net/dsleslie2/

Dana S. Leslie

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av Dana S. Leslie » 13 sep 2007 01:48:21

"Normandy" <aabbcc@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:46e6a18c$0$5102$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
"a.spencer3" <a.spencer3@ntlworld.com> a crit dans le message de news:
JktFi.59$X%4.24@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...

"Patrick Cracroft-Brennan" <hmedia@heraldicmedia.com> wrote in message
news:05dce392c7fel9i03eoaqbf10uhheiogqe@4ax.com...

What nationality is Mr Hines?


Hawaiian Royal Family, but he probably doesn't want to admit to that one.

Surreyman

Was cousin Diana and is cousin Wills and Cousin Harry also related the
Hawaiian Royal Family? Can you pinpoint the relationship of Queen Lydia
(Spencer-Hines) Liliuokalani to our correspondent?
Normandy

He's a Hines, NOT a Dole! <grin>

Dana S. Leslie

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av Dana S. Leslie » 13 sep 2007 01:51:23

"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:fc6bb3$isg$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu...
In article <_9kFi.71948$rH6.19008@newsfe22.lga>, Dana S. Leslie
dsleslie@alumni.princeton.edu> writes
I'm more worried about being run into by them!
Well, deer and grouse and pheasants. In the park where
I exercise every morning they are all over ... I see deer
every day and the birds a couple of times a week. And
they are known to run into people. I've been hit by both
deer and pheasants (in flight).
That's amazing! Deer in flight!

Not really. Its how deer move ... fast. They leap.
Ever seen a place called "Stag's Leap"? They are all over.

Given that I am blind, no; and not ever likely to. But I'll take your word

for it that deer can glide/sail/plummet. But fly?

Paul J Gans

Re: Who Really Came With William The Conqueror In 1066?

Legg inn av Paul J Gans » 13 sep 2007 03:06:03

In alt.history.british Dana S. Leslie <dsleslie@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote:
I want to know who this "Guillaume le Conquerant" or that
other fellow, "Guillaume, duc de Normandie" is? As far
as I know the name "Guillaume" appears in neither the
Latin or the Old French of the 11th century. And similarly
there is no place known as "Normandie" recorded in that
period either.


This raises a question about which I've often wondered. What did the
inhabitants of that peninsula sticking out of France/Gaul call it, before
the Normans settled upon it? I know Brittany was called Amorica, before the
Britons migrated to it. but I've never heard of a similar predecessor name
for Normandy.

Neustria.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neustria




--
--- Paul J. Gans

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