Brothers-in-Law?

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Dana S. Leslie

Brothers-in-Law?

Legg inn av Dana S. Leslie » 07 sep 2007 19:19:56

Alaric I, K Visigoths, and Athaulf, K. Visigoths were brothers-in-law. But
was Alaric's sister Athaulf's wife, or was Alaric's wife(?) Athaulf's
sister? I'd guess the first, as alaric's sister would have balti blood, and
I'm not aware that alaric ever actually married. But can anyone confirm this
inference, for me?

Thank you.
--


Blessed Be,

Dana

D. S. Leslie, née C. R. Guttman
Email: DSLeslie@alumni.princeton.edu
Skype: dsleslie
Web: ÞE OL' PHILOSOPHIE SHOPPE
Your Source for Discounted Ideas
http://members.cox.net/dsleslie2/

Christopher Ingham

Re: Brothers-in-Law?

Legg inn av Christopher Ingham » 08 sep 2007 10:44:47

On Sep 7, 2:19 pm, "Dana S. Leslie" <dsles...@alumni.princeton.edu>
wrote:
Alaric I, K Visigoths, and Athaulf, K. Visigoths were brothers-in-law. But
was Alaric's sister Athaulf's wife, or was Alaric's wife(?) Athaulf's
sister? I'd guess the first, as alaric's sister would have balti blood, and
I'm not aware that alaric ever actually married. But can anyone confirm this
inference, for me?

Athaulf was the brother of Alaric's unnamed wife (Zosimus, 5.37.1).
Jordanes, writing in the mid-sixth century, states that Alaric and
Athaulf were_consanguineous_(_Get,_30.158), but this is probably a
misunderstanding of Zosimus (H. Wolfram,_History of the
Goths_[Berkeley and Los Angeles, 1989], 165; P. Heather,_Goths and
Romans, 332-489_[Oxford, 1991), 31, 31n.49).

Christopher Ingham

Martin

Re: Brothers-in-Law?

Legg inn av Martin » 09 sep 2007 00:19:14

"Dana S. Leslie" <dsleslie@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in message
news:6DgEi.75687$lZ7.2658@newsfe20.lga...
Alaric I, K Visigoths, and Athaulf, K. Visigoths were brothers-in-law. But
was Alaric's sister Athaulf's wife, or was Alaric's wife(?) Athaulf's
sister? I'd guess the first, as alaric's sister would have balti blood,
and I'm not aware that alaric ever actually married. But can anyone
confirm this inference, for me?

Very difficult tracing anything Visigoth that early I'm afraid, very poorly
recorded if at all. I have long sought some mention of a direct ancestor
amongst Alaric's people, but have come up with little... apart from
assurances my name is Visigoth, and means something like "the long haired
shaggy one". Could be worse I suppose, though dad wasn't all that amused...

Many of the VG's settled in the S of France and N Spain, where the first one
of my family came from in the 1790's, but apart from the delight of finding
a relationship to the Borgias and Merovingians, not much more.

Blessed maybe...
Martin Reboul

Christopher Ingham

No Records/Merovingians

Legg inn av Christopher Ingham » 09 sep 2007 03:21:08

On Sep 8, 7:19 pm, "Martin" <martin1471spam...@outgun.com> wrote:
"Dana S. Leslie" <dsles...@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in messagenews:6DgEi.75687$lZ7.2658@newsfe20.lga...

Alaric I, K Visigoths, and Athaulf, K. Visigoths were brothers-in-law. But
was Alaric's sister Athaulf's wife, or was Alaric's wife(?) Athaulf's
sister? I'd guess the first, as alaric's sister would have balti blood,
and I'm not aware that alaric ever actually married. But can anyone
confirm this inference, for me?

Very difficult tracing anything Visigoth that early I'm afraid, very poorly
recorded if at all. I have long sought some mention of a direct ancestor
amongst Alaric's people, but have come up with little....

Hmmm.... Zosimus, Procopius, Jordanes, Isidore of Seville, and other
contemporary chroniclers of the Visigoths were writing fiction?
Actually, the part that is hard to document is the genealogical
connection between the Visigothic aristocracy and the ruling dynasties
of the Iberian successor states.

Many of the VG's settled in the S of France and N Spain, where the first one
of my family came from in the 1790's, but apart from the delight of finding
a relationship to the...Merovingians, not much more.

The Mereovingians, you say? Could you elaborate.

Christopher Ingham

Dana S. Leslie

Re: No Records/Merovingians

Legg inn av Dana S. Leslie » 09 sep 2007 14:50:09

"Christopher Ingham" <christopheringham@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1189304468.244020.162060@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 8, 7:19 pm, "Martin" <martin1471spam...@outgun.com> wrote:
"Dana S. Leslie" <dsles...@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in
messagenews:6DgEi.75687$lZ7.2658@newsfe20.lga...

Alaric I, K Visigoths, and Athaulf, K. Visigoths were brothers-in-law.
But
was Alaric's sister Athaulf's wife, or was Alaric's wife(?) Athaulf's
sister? I'd guess the first, as alaric's sister would have balti blood,
and I'm not aware that alaric ever actually married. But can anyone
confirm this inference, for me?

Very difficult tracing anything Visigoth that early I'm afraid, very
poorly
recorded if at all. I have long sought some mention of a direct ancestor
amongst Alaric's people, but have come up with little....

Hmmm.... Zosimus, Procopius, Jordanes, Isidore of Seville, and other
contemporary chroniclers of the Visigoths were writing fiction?
Actually, the part that is hard to document is the genealogical
connection between the Visigothic aristocracy and the ruling dynasties
of the Iberian successor states.

I once read a history of Spain that gave Pelayo, 1st K. Asturias, as son of
Favila, D. Cantabria, son of Chindasuinth, K. Visigoths. I suppose this is
'creative' genealogy? In any case, I have it marked as 'uncertain' in my
database.
--


Blessed Be,

Dana

D. S. Leslie, née C. R. Guttman
Email: DSLeslie@alumni.princeton.edu
Skype: dsleslie
Web: ÞE OL' PHILOSOPHIE SHOPPE
Your Source for Discounted Ideas
http://members.cox.net/dsleslie2/

Dana S. Leslie

Re: No Records/Merovingians

Legg inn av Dana S. Leslie » 09 sep 2007 15:14:21

"Dana S. Leslie" <dsleslie@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in message
news:aSSEi.81202$lZ7.55523@newsfe20.lga...
"Christopher Ingham" <christopheringham@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1189304468.244020.162060@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 8, 7:19 pm, "Martin" <martin1471spam...@outgun.com> wrote:
"Dana S. Leslie" <dsles...@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in
messagenews:6DgEi.75687$lZ7.2658@newsfe20.lga...

Alaric I, K Visigoths, and Athaulf, K. Visigoths were brothers-in-law.
But
was Alaric's sister Athaulf's wife, or was Alaric's wife(?) Athaulf's
sister? I'd guess the first, as alaric's sister would have balti
blood,
and I'm not aware that alaric ever actually married. But can anyone
confirm this inference, for me?

Very difficult tracing anything Visigoth that early I'm afraid, very
poorly
recorded if at all. I have long sought some mention of a direct ancestor
amongst Alaric's people, but have come up with little....

Hmmm.... Zosimus, Procopius, Jordanes, Isidore of Seville, and other
contemporary chroniclers of the Visigoths were writing fiction?
Actually, the part that is hard to document is the genealogical
connection between the Visigothic aristocracy and the ruling dynasties
of the Iberian successor states.

I once read a history of Spain that gave Pelayo, 1st K. Asturias, as son
of Favila, D. Cantabria, son of Chindasuinth, K. Visigoths. I suppose this
is 'creative' genealogy? In any case, I have it marked as 'uncertain' in
my database.


Oh, and the same history gave Roderic as a son of Theodofred, D. Cordova,
another (older?) son of Chindasuinth, making Roderic and Pelayo first
cousins. very neat! Too neat?

taf

Re: No Records/Merovingians

Legg inn av taf » 09 sep 2007 15:50:27

On Sep 9, 6:50 am, "Dana S. Leslie" <dsles...@alumni.princeton.edu>
wrote:
"Christopher Ingham" <christophering...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:1189304468.244020.162060@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...



On Sep 8, 7:19 pm, "Martin" <martin1471spam...@outgun.com> wrote:
"Dana S. Leslie" <dsles...@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in
messagenews:6DgEi.75687$lZ7.2658@newsfe20.lga...

Alaric I, K Visigoths, and Athaulf, K. Visigoths were brothers-in-law.
But
was Alaric's sister Athaulf's wife, or was Alaric's wife(?) Athaulf's
sister? I'd guess the first, as alaric's sister would have balti blood,
and I'm not aware that alaric ever actually married. But can anyone
confirm this inference, for me?

Very difficult tracing anything Visigoth that early I'm afraid, very
poorly
recorded if at all. I have long sought some mention of a direct ancestor
amongst Alaric's people, but have come up with little....

Hmmm.... Zosimus, Procopius, Jordanes, Isidore of Seville, and other
contemporary chroniclers of the Visigoths were writing fiction?
Actually, the part that is hard to document is the genealogical
connection between the Visigothic aristocracy and the ruling dynasties
of the Iberian successor states.

I once read a history of Spain that gave Pelayo, 1st K. Asturias, as son of
Favila, D. Cantabria, son of Chindasuinth, K. Visigoths. I suppose this is
'creative' genealogy? In any case, I have it marked as 'uncertain' in my
database.

As well you should. Pelayo's parentage is unknown, and the above is
simple speculation.

taf

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