Fw: Theodegotho, and the Burgundians?

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Dana S. Leslie

Fw: Theodegotho, and the Burgundians?

Legg inn av Dana S. Leslie » 02 sep 2007 15:10:41

Christopher,

Thank you! This clears up the Burgundian mess. But do you show another
daughter of Alaric II and Theodegotho, Eustere, who was another wife of
Theuderic I of Metz. eustere was included in an earlier response to my
original post, and I still have no other source for her.

Now, as to the two Theodegothos issue:
LVDP includes a Theodoric of Ostrogoths, an older(?) full brother to the
Theodegotho who married Alaric II. Theodoric of Ostrogoths is shown with a
daughter, also named Theodegotho, who also married Sigismund II, K.
Burgundians. Together, Theodegotho the younger and Sigismund II were the
parents of Wacho, K. of Longobards. Can anyone confirm this last set of
relationships?

Thank you.

Dana
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Ingham" <
christopheringham@comcast.net>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: Theodegotho, and the Burgundians?

On Sep 1, 8:17 pm, "Dana S. Leslie" <
dsles...@alumni.princeton.edu>
wrote:
I have found two women named Theodegotho: a daughter of Theodoric The
Great,
who is married to Alaric II of the Visigoths; And a Granddaughter of
Theodoric The Great, who is married to Sigusmund of the Burgundians. Are
these, in fact, the same woman, and, if so, what is her correct
relationship
to Theodoric?

Also, I have found two separate lines of Burgundians: one headed by a
Gundiok,
and the other by a Gundioch. But I have not found a connection between the
two lines. Is there one, and, if so, where?

Thank you.
--

Blessed Be,

Dana

D. S. Leslie, née C. R. Guttman
Email:
DSLes...@alumni.princeton.edu
Skype: dsleslie
Web: ÞE OL' PHILOSOPHIE SHOPPE
Your Source for Discounted Ideashttp://members.cox.net/dsleslie2/

According to the genealogical charts in H. Wolfram,_The Roman Empire
and Its Germanic Peoples_(Berkeley and Los Angeles, 1997), and T.
Burns,_A History of the Ostrogoths_(Bloomington, 1984), Gundioc/
Gundiok/Gundovech are the same person. His grandson, the Burgundian
crown prince (later king) Sigismund (d. 523), married Ostrogotho-
Areagni, daughter of Theodoric I (d. 526), king of the Ostrogoths, and
Audefleda, sister of Clovis. A son of Sigismund and Ostrogotho,
Sigeric (d. 522, is shown, as is a daughter, Suavegotho, who married
Theuderic I (d. 534), king of the Franks, son of Clovis.

The eldest daughter of Theodoric I, Theodegotho, married Alaric II (d.
507), king of the Visigoths; and they had a son, Amalaric (d. 531).
Gesalec was an older half-brother of the latter, by an earlier, "not
fully valid," marriage of Alaric. The sources cited above do not
indicate another daughter, [Unk], although they are not genealogical
essays per se.

Christopher Ingham

Christopher Ingham

Re: Fw: Theodegotho, and the Burgundians?

Legg inn av Christopher Ingham » 02 sep 2007 18:56:43

On Sep 2, 10:10 am, "Dana S. Leslie" <dsles...@alumni.princeton.edu>
wrote:
Christopher,

Thank you! This clears up the Burgundian mess. But do you show another
daughter of Alaric II and Theodegotho, Eustere, who was another wife of
Theuderic I of Metz. eustere was included in an earlier response to my
original post, and I still have no other source for her.

Now, as to the two Theodegothos issue:
LVDP includes a Theodoric of Ostrogoths, an older(?) full brother to the
Theodegotho who married Alaric II. Theodoric of Ostrogoths is shown with a
daughter, also named Theodegotho, who also married Sigismund II, K.
Burgundians. Together, Theodegotho the younger and Sigismund II were the
parents of Wacho, K. of Longobards. Can anyone confirm this last set of
relationships?

Thank you.

Dana



----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Ingham"
christophering...@comcast.net
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: Theodegotho, and the Burgundians?

On Sep 1, 8:17 pm, "Dana S. Leslie"
dsles...@alumni.princeton.edu
wrote:
I have found two women named Theodegotho: a daughter of Theodoric The
Great,
who is married to Alaric II of the Visigoths; And a Granddaughter of
Theodoric The Great, who is married to Sigusmund of the Burgundians. Are
these, in fact, the same woman, and, if so, what is her correct
relationship
to Theodoric?

Also, I have found two separate lines of Burgundians: one headed by a
Gundiok,
and the other by a Gundioch. But I have not found a connection between the
two lines. Is there one, and, if so, where?

Thank you.
--

Blessed Be,

Dana

D. S. Leslie, née C. R. Guttman
Email:
DSLes...@alumni.princeton.edu
Skype: dsleslie
Web: ÞE OL' PHILOSOPHIE SHOPPE
Your Source for Discounted Ideashttp://members.cox.net/dsleslie2/

According to the genealogical charts in H. Wolfram,_The Roman Empire
and Its Germanic Peoples_(Berkeley and Los Angeles, 1997), and T.
Burns,_A History of the Ostrogoths_(Bloomington, 1984), Gundioc/
Gundiok/Gundovech are the same person. His grandson, the Burgundian
crown prince (later king) Sigismund (d. 523), married Ostrogotho-
Areagni, daughter of Theodoric I (d. 526), king of the Ostrogoths, and
Audefleda, sister of Clovis. A son of Sigismund and Ostrogotho,
Sigeric (d. 522, is shown, as is a daughter, Suavegotho, who married
Theuderic I (d. 534), king of the Franks, son of Clovis.

The eldest daughter of Theodoric I, Theodegotho, married Alaric II (d.
507), king of the Visigoths; and they had a son, Amalaric (d. 531).
Gesalec was an older half-brother of the latter, by an earlier, "not
fully valid," marriage of Alaric. The sources cited above do not
indicate another daughter, [Unk], although they are not genealogical
essays per se.

Christopher Ingham-

- Show quoted text -

Again citing Wolfram (_The Roman Empire and Its Germanic Peoples_) and
Burns (_A History of the Ostrogoths_), there is no mention of a
Eustere, which is not to say that she is not documented elsewhere; yet
Wolfram mentions several particulars of Theuderic I's life, and it
seems unlikely that he would have failed to mention this alleged
second marriage. Theuderic of Metz, by the way, is the same person as
the Frankish king Theuderic I discussed previously. His capital was
at Metz, within the territory he was allotted following the partition
of the Frankish kingdom among Clovis' four sons.

Theodegotha is not listed among the three siblings of the Ostrogothic
Theodoric I. Nor did Theodegotha the daughter of Theodoric I have any
brother, but rather four sisters.

The Longobard Wacho was not the son of the Burgundian Sigismund and
his Ostrogothic wife Ostrogotho-Areagni. Some confusion probably
arises by the name of Wacho's wife, Austrigusa-Ostrogotho, a Gepid
princess. (Their daughter, Wisigarda, married the Frankish
Theudebert, son of Theuderic I and Suavegotho.)

"The bewildering variety of spellings encountered for early medieval
names results from contemporary scribal variations, from internal
transformations of early medieval languages between the fifth and
ninth centuries, and from the tendency of modern scholars to reproduce
medieval names according to modern equivalents....Theodoricus,
Theuderic, Thodoric, Theoderic, [Theodoric,] and Thierry [are the same
name]." [P. J. Geary,_Before France and Germany: The Creation and
Transformation of the Merovingian World_. Oxford, 1988.]

Christopher Ingham

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