Fw: Corrections to DNB and ODNB Jasper Tudor's bastard daug

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Leo van de Pas

Fw: Corrections to DNB and ODNB Jasper Tudor's bastard daug

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 30 aug 2007 22:35:50

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,alt.history.british
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 3:54 AM
Subject: Corrections to DNB and ODNB Jasper Tudor's bastard daughter,
Ellen,wife of William Gardiner, and her issue


Dear Newsgroup ~

The old Dicitionary of National Biography (DNB) states that Jasper
Tudor "left an illegitimate daughter, Helen, who is said to have
married William Gardiner, and to have been the mother of Stephen
Gardiner." Part of this information is correct, and part of it is
not. Jasper Tudor, Duke of Bedford (died 1495), had an illegitimate
daughter, Ellen (not Helen),

=====Douglas you make this criticism about a name. But you are willing to
translate the first name of a French woman "Comtesse" into Countess?
I think I am not the only one still waiting for an example of an English,
Scottish, Welsh, Irish woman who actually had the first name of "Countess".
I think that would be so special that I would enter her into my data base,
of course, with you as the source.

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas

who married William Gardiner, as stated
by the DNB. However, Ellen was not the mother of Stephen Gardiner,
Bishop of Winchester. Rather, as the Visitation of Sussex correctly
states, Ellen was the mother of ".... Gardiner Lord Prior of
Tinmouth." [Reference: Benolte et al. Vis. of Sussex 1530, 1633-4
(H.S.P. 53) (1905): 122 (Owen pedigree)]. The name of Ellen's son was
Thomas Gardiner. He was Prior of Tynemouth, Northumberland from 1528
to 1536.

The new account of Jasper Tudor in Oxford Dictionary of National
Biography, however, falls even further afield from the truth. Even
through the author was surely aware of the above statement in the old
DNB about Jasper Tudor's illegitimate daughter, the new ODNB states
that Jasper Tudor "seems to have fathered no children, and the king
was his heir." There is no mention whatsoever of an illegitimate
daughter. The word "seems" is a poor choice of words, as it can be
clearly demonstrated that (a) Jasper Tudor left no legitimate issue,
and (b) that he had an illegitimate daughter, Ellen, who married
William Gardiner.

For what it is worth, I'm finding repeated and often glaring
genealogical errors in almost every account of the new ODNB.
Genealogy is clearly the short suit of many modern historians.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah



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