Daneys of Huntingdonshire, Rutland and Somerset

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Daneys of Huntingdonshire, Rutland and Somerset

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 aug 2007 16:38:20

The Daneys family are (via the St Georges of Hatley St George)
ancestral to HRH The Countess of Wessex.

My thanks to Rosie Bevan and Guy Vincent for kindly letting me have
further details of this family. A tentative stemma follows:

1. William le Daneys aka Dacus, had an agreement with Ralf de
Worcester to acquire four hides at Offord Darcy, Hunts, 1194 (VCH
Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord Darcy); founded the Hospital at Ilchester,
1217x1220 (Proceedings of the Somerset Arch. & Nat. Hist. Soc., vol
XIII, 1867); married Emma de Offord, daughter of Robert de Offord, who
brought to her husband the advowson of Offord Darcy (VCH Hunts, vol
2); issue:

2a. John le Daneys, son and heir, received estates at Offord Darcy
from his father (VCH Hunts, vol 2); died circa 1241, custody of his
heirs being granted on 30 January 1242 (Cal. Patent Rolls); married
Philippa, his widow in 1242 (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord Darcy).
Issue:

3a. Ela le Daneys, elder daughter and coheir; her wardship and
marriage granted to Nicholas de Boleville, 30 January 1242 (Cal PR);
granted with her husband free warren in their demesne lands at
Blaysworth, Great Staughton, 1254 (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Great
Staughton); dead by 1259; married William de Boleville; no issue (VCH
Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord Darcy)

3b. Juliana le Daneys, younger daughter and coheir; her wardship and
marriaged granted to John de Geres, 30 January 1242 (Cal PR); died
1245; unmarried (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord Darcy)

2b. William le Daneys, received a knight's fee at Great Staughton from
his brother John, 1241 (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Great Staughton); died
1250 (VCH Rutland, vol 2, p 276); married firstly; married secondly,
Mabel, living in 1263, heiress of Tickencote, Rutland (VCH Rutland,
vol 2, p 276). Issue:

3. John le Daneys, born circa 1232; died before 1261; no issue (VCH
Rutland, vol 2, p 276)

2c. Richard le Daneys, named in the pedigree detailed by Brice le
Daneys in his claim to be heir of Ela de Boleville, 1286 (VCH Hunts,
vol 2, sub Offord Darcy); issue:

3. William le Daneys; issue:

4. William le Daneys, claimed to be heir of Ela de Boleville, 1261
(VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord Darcy); dead by 1272 (Knights of Edward
I, sub Daneys); issue:

5. Brice le Daneys, son and heir of William le Daneys; a ward of John
Beauchamp [of Hatch]; held the manor of Sock Denis, Somerset, 1272;
summoned to serve against the Scots, 1301; held Tickencote, 1313; held
property in London, 1317-8 (Knights of Edward I); dead by 1344 (VCH
Rutland, vol 2, sub Tickencote)

2d. Isabella le Daneys, daughter of William and Emma (VCH Hunts, vol
2, sub Offord Darcy); claimed dower at Preston, 1219 (Somerset Feet of
Fines, 3 Henry III, #31); married firstly Richard de Haselberg (VCH
Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord Darcy); son of William de Haselberg, held two
knight's fees and a fee of the Earl of Warwick at Melcombe, Dorset,
1210-12 (Domesday Descendants, p 504); held the manor of Haselberg,
which escheated to King John after his rebellion; decapitated and hung
by his feet under the park at Shireborn (Chan IPM 45 Henry III, #34);
married secondly Hugh de Ringesdon (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord
Darcy); held a fee at Ringstone and Dunston of the Bishop of Lincoln,
1242/3 (Domesday Descendants, p 664). Issue:

3. Isabella, probably daughter of Hugh de Ringesdon, given that (a)
her mother's first husband died in the reign of King John, (b) she
gave birth to her heir after 1257, and (c) she was still living in
1315 (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord Darcy); married firstly by 1261
Robert de Hereford, of Tollesland and Paxton; dead by 1271; probably
married secondly Sir John de Offord, living 1279; married [probably
thirdly] Peter Marischall, living 1315 (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord
Darcy). Ancestress by her first marriage of the de Herefords,
Manninghams, St Georges etc

2e. Maud le Daneys, gave Blaysworth manor to Bushmead Priory, circa
1270 (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Great Staughton); married Richard
Pauncefot, living 1261 (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord Darcy); dead by
1270 (ibid, sub Great Staughton)

Gjest

Re: Daneys of Huntingdonshire, Rutland and Somerset

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 aug 2007 17:18:17

On 25 Aug., 16:38, mj...@btinternet.com wrote:
The Daneys family are (via the St Georges of Hatley St George)
ancestral to HRH The Countess of Wessex.

1. William le Daneys, father of:

(snip)

2e. Maud le Daneys, gave Blaysworth manor to Bushmead Priory, circa
1270 (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Great Staughton); married Richard
Pauncefot, living 1261 (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord Darcy); dead by
1270 (ibid, sub Great Staughton)

Apologies - I have conflated two generations here - this should read:

2e. Maud le Daneys, married Robert Grimbald (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub
Offord Darcy); issue:

3. Isabella Grimbald, gave Blaysworth manor to Bushmead Priory, circa
1270 (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Great Staughton); married Richard
Pauncefot, living 1261 (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord Darcy); dead by
1270 (ibid, sub Great Staughton)

MAR

Gjest

Re: Daneys of Huntingdonshire, Rutland and Somerset

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 aug 2007 17:39:20

On 25 Aug., 17:18, mj...@btinternet.com wrote:
On 25 Aug., 16:38, mj...@btinternet.com wrote:

The Daneys family are (via the St Georges of Hatley St George)
ancestral to HRH The Countess of Wessex.

1. William le Daneys, father of:

(snip)

2e. Maud le Daneys, gave Blaysworth manor to Bushmead Priory, circa
1270 (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Great Staughton); married Richard
Pauncefot, living 1261 (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord Darcy); dead by
1270 (ibid, sub Great Staughton)

Apologies - I have conflated two generations here - this should read:

2e. Maud le Daneys, married Robert Grimbald (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub
Offord Darcy); issue:

3. Isabella Grimbald, gave Blaysworth manor to Bushmead Priory, circa
1270 (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Great Staughton); married Richard
Pauncefot, living 1261 (VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord Darcy); dead by
1270 (ibid, sub Great Staughton)

I should add that this couple were the parents of Grimbald Pauncefot
(see Pauncefort-Duncombe baronets, Burke's Peerage & Baronetage).

I wonder whether Grimbald Pauncefot (d 1287) is one of the earliest
instances of an English surname being used as a Christian name?

MA-R

Alan Grey

Re: Daneys of Huntingdonshire, Rutland and Somerset

Legg inn av Alan Grey » 26 aug 2007 23:36:43

mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:
The Daneys family are (via the St Georges of Hatley St George)
ancestral to HRH The Countess of Wessex.

My thanks to Rosie Bevan and Guy Vincent for kindly letting me have
further details of this family. A tentative stemma follows:

[deletion]
4. William le Daneys, claimed to be heir of Ela de Boleville, 1261
(VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord Darcy); dead by 1272 (Knights of Edward
I, sub Daneys); issue:

5. Brice le Daneys, son and heir of William le Daneys; a ward of John
Beauchamp [of Hatch]; held the manor of Sock Denis, Somerset, 1272;
summoned to serve against the Scots, 1301; held Tickencote, 1313; held
property in London, 1317-8 (Knights of Edward I); dead by 1344 (VCH
Rutland, vol 2, sub Tickencote)


To this could be added the Maud who married Thomas de Tolethorpe (died
c.1290). She is said to have been the daughter of Brice Daneys [VCH,
Rutland, Vol. 2, p.238] but I have not seen a primary source for the
statement.

The chronology of the Tolethorpe family would indicate to me that if
Maud was of the Daneys family, then she was the sister, rather than
daughter, of Brice. Her son William de Tolethorpe was in possession of
the knight's fee in Tolethorpe in 1291 (i.e., born before 1270), and so
Maud was born before (probably several years before)1255, I suppose.
For his part, Brice cannot have been born much before 1250 if he
flourished from 1272, but lived until after 1318/21, especially since he
was the great-grandson of a man whose brothers still flourished in the
1240s and whose children (Brice's grandfather's generation) were born in
the 1230s (as per your post). Thus, Brice cannot be Maud's father, but
perhaps he could be a brother.

In fact, that last point indicates some chronological difficulties in
the Daneys family reconstruction. We have John, William and Richard as
brothers (in that order). All the children of the elder brothers John
and William were minors in 1242, and seem to have been born after
1230. On the other hand, William, the grandson of the youngest brother
Richard, was an adult in 1261 and, being the father of a man who held
land in 1272, is likely to have been born by 1230. For this all to be
true, both Richard's elder brothers must have married very late, at a
time when their youngest brother was already either a grandfather or
very near to it. Not impossible, of course, but quite a stretch
nevertheless.

Alan R Grey

Gjest

Re: Daneys of Huntingdonshire, Rutland and Somerset

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 aug 2007 08:03:27

On 26 Aug., 23:36, Alan Grey <a.g...@niwa.co.nz> wrote:
mj...@btinternet.com wrote:
The Daneys family are (via the St Georges of Hatley St George)
ancestral to HRH The Countess of Wessex.

My thanks to Rosie Bevan and Guy Vincent for kindly letting me have
further details of this family. A tentative stemma follows:

[deletion]
4. William le Daneys, claimed to be heir of Ela de Boleville, 1261
(VCH Hunts, vol 2, sub Offord Darcy); dead by 1272 (Knights of Edward
I, sub Daneys); issue:

5. Brice le Daneys, son and heir of William le Daneys; a ward of John
Beauchamp [of Hatch]; held the manor of Sock Denis, Somerset, 1272;
summoned to serve against the Scots, 1301; held Tickencote, 1313; held
property in London, 1317-8 (Knights of Edward I); dead by 1344 (VCH
Rutland, vol 2, sub Tickencote)

To this could be added the Maud who married Thomas de Tolethorpe (died
c.1290). She is said to have been the daughter of Brice Daneys [VCH,
Rutland, Vol. 2, p.238] but I have not seen a primary source for the
statement.

The chronology of the Tolethorpe family would indicate to me that if
Maud was of the Daneys family, then she was the sister, rather than
daughter, of Brice. Her son William de Tolethorpe was in possession of
the knight's fee in Tolethorpe in 1291 (i.e., born before 1270), and so
Maud was born before (probably several years before)1255, I suppose.
For his part, Brice cannot have been born much before 1250 if he
flourished from 1272, but lived until after 1318/21, especially since he
was the great-grandson of a man whose brothers still flourished in the
1240s and whose children (Brice's grandfather's generation) were born in
the 1230s (as per your post). Thus, Brice cannot be Maud's father, but
perhaps he could be a brother.

In fact, that last point indicates some chronological difficulties in
the Daneys family reconstruction. We have John, William and Richard as
brothers (in that order). All the children of the elder brothers John
and William were minors in 1242, and seem to have been born after
1230. On the other hand, William, the grandson of the youngest brother
Richard, was an adult in 1261 and, being the father of a man who held
land in 1272, is likely to have been born by 1230. For this all to be
true, both Richard's elder brothers must have married very late, at a
time when their youngest brother was already either a grandfather or
very near to it. Not impossible, of course, but quite a stretch
nevertheless.

Alan

Thanks again for this cogent post, and additional material it
contains.

Considering this chronology, I agree that John's two daughters were
minors at his death in 1242, and that William's only known child was
born circa 1232 - he was, however, the son of a second marriage. We
also have details of the marriages of their two sisters, however, and
at least one of these was married during the reign of King John.

Additionally, according to the Knights of Edward I entry, Brice le
Daneys started his career as ward of John Beauchamp, who seems to have
been his family's feudal overlord in Somerset. This indicates that he
suceeded as a minor. This may relate to the first date I have so far
encountered for him (1272), and seems to make the chronology easier:
his father, who sued in 1261, could have been born as late as 1240.

Cheers, Michael

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