Fw: Maud de Holand, wife of Hugh de Courtenay, Knt., and Wal

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Leo van de Pas

Fw: Maud de Holand, wife of Hugh de Courtenay, Knt., and Wal

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 18 aug 2007 07:19:37

There is another source I could have mentioned,
Dr. A. W. E. Dek "Genealogie der Graven van Holland", page 93

----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 3:10 PM
Subject: Fw: Maud de Holand, wife of Hugh de Courtenay, Knt.,and Waleran de
Luxembourg, Count of Ligny & St.-Pol


Richardson wants me to answer his several question, yet he cannot be
bothered answering mine.

As you state that Countess was an accepted first name in England in medieval
times, I am sure you can give one example.

There is this story that Edward III remained faithful to Philippa until she
died, yet you attribute an illegitimate child by Alice Perrers born several
years
before Philippa died. Which is correct? Did Edward III remain faithful or
did he not?

In answer to your questions, you have made it clear you have access to even
more sources than I have, but in the past you have identified
the Cahiers de Saint Louis and ES (at least Schwennicke) as within your
grasp.

Sources :
Cahiers de Saint Louis page 16 and 961
ES Isenburg Volume III Tafel 109
ES Schwennicke Volume III/2 Tafel 203 and Volume VI Tafel 28
Burke's Peerage 1938 Page 802
Complete Peerage Volume IV page 325




----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval,alt.history.british
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: Maud de Holand, wife of Hugh de Courtenay, Knt.,and Waleran de
Luxembourg, Count of Ligny & St.-Pol


Dear Newsgroup ~

As I survey the printed literature, I find much disagreement among the
major sources in print about the Luxembourg family. As such, I
believe we all can learn from the topic of this thread by studying the
original documents of the period and comparing them against the
printed secondary sources.

In my own book, Plantagenet Ancestry (2004), I state that Maud de
Holand married (2nd) Waleran III de Luxembourg, Count of Ligny and
Saint-Pol. I believe that information is correct. But I note that
Anselme, Histoire de la Maison Royale de France, 3 (1728): 724 (sub
Ligny) says her name was"Mahaud de Roeux." This is clearly an error.
And, this error is echoed in MANY sources which I have encountered.

The van de Pas database has strangely morphed this lady's name into
"Lady Maud de Holand Dame de Roeux." [ID #:I00026753].

To date I have seen no record of where Maud de Holand is styled either
"Mahaud de Roeux" or "Dame de Roeux." In any event, her title in her
lifetime would been Lady Courtenay (from her 1st marriage), or
Countess of Ligny and Saint-Pol (from her 2nd marriage), but not "Dame
de Roeux." At the time of her 2nd marriage, she would typically have
been known in England as Lady Maud Courtenay, or Maud Lady Courtenay.

When Leo has a moment, perhaps he would be so kind as to supply a
contemporary document in which Maud de Holand, the half-sister of King
Richard II of England, is called either "Mahaud de Roeux" or "Dame de
Roeux," or both.

Next, I've identified Waleran of Luxembourg based on his own
correspondence as "Count of Ligny and Saint-Pol, seigneur of Fiennes"
which titles I cite for him in my book [see, for example, Duchet &
Giry, Cartulaires de l'église de Térouane (1881): 285-286; Barante,
Histoire des ducs de Bourgogne de la maison de Valois, 1364-1477, 2
(1824): 450-451].

Yet the van de Pas database states that Waleran III de Luxembourg was
" Comte de Luxembourg, St.Pol et Ligny." Since neither Waleran nor
his father was Count of Luxembourg, I'm puzzled regarding the addition
of this title to Waleran III de Luxembourg.

Again, when Leo has a moment, perhaps he would be so kind as to supply
a contemporary document in which Waleran III de Luxembourg employed
the title "Comte de Luxembourg" as one of his titles. If Waleran III
de Luxembourg was truly Count of Luxembourg, I'd very much like to
know it. If he was not, then of course Leo should correct his
database and delete the error.

Once again, I wish to extend my thanks to Will and Leo for bringing
these matters to my attention. It's much appreciated. We're going to
learn a lot from this thread, I can tell. And this is just the
beginning.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah


-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message


-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»