Savage, Beaufort, Manners, Wroughton, Seymour

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Monica Kanellis

Savage, Beaufort, Manners, Wroughton, Seymour

Legg inn av Monica Kanellis » 13 aug 2007 21:28:41

dear group

I am wondering if anyone can help track down information on Mary Savage, as
I have just found out more details about her.

Mary Savage (-1622), daughter of Sir John Savage and Elizabeth Manners,
appears to be entombed in St. Boniface's church, in Nursling, Hampshire,
near Southampton, with her second (?) husband, Sir Richard Mill (-1613). see
fuzzy picture here.
http://www.southernlife.org.uk/nursling.htm

I want to know as much about her as possible, as my ancestor John Hitchcock,
claims her as his grandmother (see Visitation of Wilts).
http://uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/Wilt ... s/p98.html
and, as she was descended on her mother's side from the Duchess of Exeter
(sister of Edward IV and Richard III) and on her father's from Charles
Somerset, Earl of Worcester, and son of Henry Beaufort, it is a very rich
line to mine. Also, her third marriage seems to have been to Sir. Thomas
Wroughton, whose daughter had married the son of Ann Seymour, niece of Jane
Seymour, one of Henry VIII's queens, and widow of John Dudley, Earl of
Warwick who was the brother-in-law of Lady Jane Grey.

British History online gives the text below about a dispute over Sir
Richard's property, but no Chancery case seems to have gone forward. Is
there a way to find out more about Mary that might connect her with the
Hitchcocks? Her third husband, according to BHO, Sir Thomas Wroughton was of
Broad Hinton, Wilts., and the properties there seem to be associated with
the Hungerfords, Ferrers, Mervyns, and Benetts, all of which are related to
John Hitchcock, either through his wife (a Hungerford, daughter of a
Ferrers) or his daughter, who married a Bennett, who was a distant cousin of
Lucy Davies, grandaughter of Lucy Mervyn and George Touchet. This makes the
connection seem much less speculative, especially if Mary was alive and
married to a Wiltshire man at the time of the visitation.

<John Mill outlived his eldest son Richard, and died in 1551, leaving the
manor [Nursling] to his second son George. (fn.
21<http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=42022#n21>)
The latter held the manor for seventeen years, but died without issue in
1568. (fn. 22 <http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=42022#n22>)
Before his death he had settled the manor upon his brother Thomas in
fee-tail on the occasion of his marriage with Alice daughter of Robert
Coker. Thomas and Alice had issue one son called Richard and several
daughters. As Richard was 'very sickly in his youth,' George was often
minded to settle the reversion of his lands after his death on his younger
brother John in fee-tail, so as to continue the same in his own name, but
refrained from doing so on account of the former settlement. (fn.
23<http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=42022#n23>)
On the death of George the estate therefore passed to Richard, who some time
afterwards married Mary daughter of Sir John Savage. 'He used his sisters
very kindly oftentimes affirming that the possibility of his lands would be
a preferment for them in marriage he having no issue nor likely to have
any,' and although his wife Mary often entreated him to disinherit his
sisters he steadfastly refused, saying that the lands should descend to them
in accordance with the wish of his uncle. However, Mary prevailed upon him
to settle a part of his estate upon her for life, although he persisted in
his determination of settling the greater part upon his sisters. Shortly
afterwards 'he grew weak both in body and mind by reason of a dread palsey
which he had,' and while in this state his wife Mary and her nephew Sir
Thomas Savage, who waited upon him and 'mynistered phisicke' to him during
his long illness, seemingly gained complete ascendancy over him, so much so
that he finally conveyed the greater part of his estates to Mary about 1609,
(fn. 24 <http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=42022#n24>) and
by his will left only £300 to his sisters, Anne the wife of Thomas Bilson,
Alice the wife of Sir John Bingham, Elizabeth Collnett, and Bridget the wife
of Thomas Barnes. (fn.
25<http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=42022#n25>)
After her husband's death in 1613 (fn.
26<http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=42022#n26>)
Mary used 'faier words' to her husband's sisters, but nevertheless previous
to her marriage with Thomas Wroughton in 1616 executed a deed granting the
reversion of her property to her nephew. (fn.
27<http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=42022#n27>)
The sisters of Richard appealed to the Court of Chancery, but the case was
dismissed in 1619. (fn.
28<http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=42022#n28>)
Sir Thomas, afterwards Viscount Savage, who had succeeded to Nursling on the
death of his aunt in 1623, (fn.
29<http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=42022#n29>)
sold the manor to Sir Thomas Cornwallis, groom porter to James I, John
Scrivener, and others in December, 1624, (fn.
30<http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=42022#n30>)
and made the first conveyance by fine in the spring of 1625. (fn.
31<http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=42022#n31>)

best,

mk

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Savage, Beaufort, Manners, Wroughton, Seymour

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 13 aug 2007 21:33:30

Any tie-in with Alfred Hitchcock?

DSH
------------------------------------------------

"Monica Kanellis" <monica.kanellis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.428.1187036946.7287.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

I want to know as much about her as possible, as my ancestor John Hitchcock,
claims her as his grandmother (see Visitation of Wilts).

Monica Kanellis

Re: Savage, Beaufort, Manners, Wroughton, Seymour

Legg inn av Monica Kanellis » 13 aug 2007 21:44:57

Not that I am aware of, but there is an American line which may come in
here. it would go through Matthew Hitchcock who married Elizabeth Perry c
1640 in New Haven CT. Mine goes through Agnes who married a Bennett.

best,

mk

On 8/13/07, D. Spencer Hines <panther@excelsior.com> wrote:
Any tie-in with Alfred Hitchcock?

DSH
------------------------------------------------

"Monica Kanellis" <monica.kanellis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.428.1187036946.7287.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

I want to know as much about her as possible, as my ancestor John
Hitchcock,
claims her as his grandmother (see Visitation of Wilts).



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D. Spencer Hines

Re: Savage, Beaufort, Manners, Wroughton, Seymour

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 13 aug 2007 21:50:00

Thank you kindly.

DSH

"Monica Kanellis" <monica.kanellis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.429.1187037926.7287.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

Not that I am aware of, but there is an American line which may come in
here. it would go through Matthew Hitchcock who married Elizabeth Perry c
1640 in New Haven CT. Mine goes through Agnes who married a Bennett.

best,

mk

On 8/13/07, D. Spencer Hines <panther@excelsior.com> wrote:

Any tie-in with Alfred Hitchcock?

DSH
------------------------------------------------

"Monica Kanellis" <monica.kanellis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.428.1187036946.7287.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

I want to know as much about her as possible, as my ancestor John
Hitchcock,
claims her as his grandmother (see Visitation of Wilts).

Gjest

Re: Savage, Beaufort, Manners, Wroughton, Seymour

Legg inn av Gjest » 13 aug 2007 22:27:08

On 13 Aug., 21:28, "Monica Kanellis" <monica.kanel...@gmail.com>
wrote:
dear group

I am wondering if anyone can help track down information on Mary Savage, as
I have just found out more details about her.

Mary Savage (-1622), daughter of Sir John Savage and Elizabeth Manners,
appears to be entombed in St. Boniface's church, in Nursling, Hampshire,
near Southampton, with her second (?) husband, Sir Richard Mill (-1613). see
fuzzy picture here.http://www.southernlife.org.uk/nursling.htm

Dear Monica

I am sceptical that Mary Milles nee Savage and the grandmother of John
Hitchcock of Preshute (ff 1623) could be the same person, primarily
for chronological reasons.

Firstly, the Visitation record shows that John's grandfather, Thomas
Hitchcock, was living during the reign of Henry VIII. It stretches
credulity to believe that the widow of a man active in the 1540s at
latest should be marriageable after 1613 and die in 1622 - not
impossible, but unlikely.

Secondly, Mary Milles left her property to a nephew, whereas one would
have expected it to be left to her son of an earlier marriage -
Richard Hitchcock, the father of John. Curious.

Thirdly, there is a Wiltshire will for a Mary Hitchcock, widow, of
Preshute, dated 1570, which mentions her eldest son Richard, her
second son Thomas, her youngest son Robert, and her grandchildren
John, Robert, Agnes and Mary; the bulk of her estate she gives to her
[third] son John. You will note that this confluence of names matches
completely with the 1623 Visitation, so it seems highly likely that
John's grandmother Mary Hitchcock died in 1570.

The entire will may be seen by searching the Wiltshire Wills Project
here:

http://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/heritag ... search.php

The reference is P1/1Reg/24 (Consistory Court of Salisbury).

It is interesting to note that the testatrix was called "Mary Chapman
alias Hitchcock"; you will see from other early Preshute wills, and
from similar PCC wills that the family seems to have called themselves
"Chapman alias Hitchcock".

Cheers, Michael

Monica Kanellis

Re: Savage, Beaufort, Manners, Wroughton, Seymour

Legg inn av Monica Kanellis » 14 aug 2007 01:04:33

thanks for link, MJC, have not seen this site before. It's like Christmas, I
just hope some of the boxes are for me!

btb, I suspect that no widow is too old when she has property. Though it is
very suspicious that well before she died it all went to Thomas who was *so*
helpful in dear Richard's last illness. Where is Miss Marple when you need
her?

best,

mk



On 8/13/07, mjcar@btinternet.com <mjcar@btinternet.com> wrote:
On 13 Aug., 21:28, "Monica Kanellis" <monica.kanel...@gmail.com
wrote:
dear group

I am wondering if anyone can help track down information on Mary Savage,
as
I have just found out more details about her.

Mary Savage (-1622), daughter of Sir John Savage and Elizabeth Manners,
appears to be entombed in St. Boniface's church, in Nursling, Hampshire,
near Southampton, with her second (?) husband, Sir Richard Mill (-1613).
see
fuzzy picture here.http://www.southernlife.org.uk/nursling.htm

Dear Monica

I am sceptical that Mary Milles nee Savage and the grandmother of John
Hitchcock of Preshute (ff 1623) could be the same person, primarily
for chronological reasons.

Firstly, the Visitation record shows that John's grandfather, Thomas
Hitchcock, was living during the reign of Henry VIII. It stretches
credulity to believe that the widow of a man active in the 1540s at
latest should be marriageable after 1613 and die in 1622 - not
impossible, but unlikely.

Secondly, Mary Milles left her property to a nephew, whereas one would
have expected it to be left to her son of an earlier marriage -
Richard Hitchcock, the father of John. Curious.

Thirdly, there is a Wiltshire will for a Mary Hitchcock, widow, of
Preshute, dated 1570, which mentions her eldest son Richard, her
second son Thomas, her youngest son Robert, and her grandchildren
John, Robert, Agnes and Mary; the bulk of her estate she gives to her
[third] son John. You will note that this confluence of names matches
completely with the 1623 Visitation, so it seems highly likely that
John's grandmother Mary Hitchcock died in 1570.

The entire will may be seen by searching the Wiltshire Wills Project
here:

http://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/heritag ... search.php

The reference is P1/1Reg/24 (Consistory Court of Salisbury).

It is interesting to note that the testatrix was called "Mary Chapman
alias Hitchcock"; you will see from other early Preshute wills, and
from similar PCC wills that the family seems to have called themselves
"Chapman alias Hitchcock".

Cheers, Michael


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