Rethel link missing - Gateway ancestors

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Leo van de Pas

Rethel link missing - Gateway ancestors

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 06 aug 2007 00:41:08

In my system I had a man married to an unnamed lady. Leslie Mahler gave me her name and by mentioning her brother I had her parents as well.
This unnamed lady was made fascinating to me by Leslie Mahler as he said she was an ancestor of Bette Davis and John Kerry, but more importantly indicated that through a particular marriage "there should be a royal descent".

This marriage can be found in CP VIII page 505 and 506.
Robert de Marmion married Milicent "whose parentage is unknown" and Milicent is a most likely ancestor to lead to royalty, as

In ES Volume XIV page 467 we find that "whose parentage is unknown" must be replaced by "daughter of Hugh, Count of Rethel".

But now my problems start.

Thanks to John Ravilious and Rosie Bevan, I have Milicent as born "circa 1110" and this eliminates three of the four Hugh, Counts of Rethel in my database.

ES III/Volume 4 Tafels 625 and 626 cover the Counts of Rethel.

Hugues I, Count of Rethel, married Melisende de Monthlery and recorded are their children : Manasses, Gervais, Baudouin II, Mathilde, Hodierne, Beatrice and SS implies there were more sons---------------no Milicent/Melisende wife of Robert de Marmion. Is she left out by Schwennicke? Dates given for these brothers and sisters are vague enough to make it possible that Milicent could be one of them

BUT the son Gervais, Count of Rethel, died ca.1124, married Elisabeth de Namur and had one daughter, Elisabeth who married Robert de Marmion and he died about October 1181.

Sadly Robert de Marmion died about 1143/1144 he is married to our Milicent and it is their son, Robert, who married Elisabeth de Rethel and died about October 1181.

Was Robert Jr. married to his first cousin? Did Detlev Schwennicke omit Milicent?

There are many Gateway ancestors descending from them. To mention a few Hon. George Percy, Ferdinando Gorges, Catherine Marbury, Anne Marbury, Roger Ludlow, Sir Ralph Lane, Col. George Reade, Sir Henry Skipwith, Jane Lowe, Capt. Jeremy Clarke, Nathaniel Browne, Rev. John Davenport and others.

If we can link Milicent to Hugh I and Melisende de Monthlery, then several Emperors are amongst her ancestors, including Charlemagne.

Can anyone help?
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

taf

Re: Rethel link missing - Gateway ancestors

Legg inn av taf » 06 aug 2007 03:15:58

On Aug 5, 6:39 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
This means that both Schwennicke and CP XIV are wrong--------------



That it does. It is particularly unfortunate when a correction is,
itself, incorrect.

taf

taf

Re: Rethel link missing - Gateway ancestors

Legg inn av taf » 06 aug 2007 03:15:58

On Aug 5, 6:39 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
This means that both Schwennicke and CP XIV are wrong--------------



That it does. It is particularly unfortunate when a correction is,
itself, incorrect.

taf

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