Fw: Nicole de Noyelles & Gary Boyd Roberts

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Leo van de Pas

Fw: Nicole de Noyelles & Gary Boyd Roberts

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 04 aug 2007 01:33:58

Fw: Nicole de Noyelles & Gary Boyd Roberts

My Dutch contact replied to me in regards the great notes from John Higgins. He now also has seen the 1928 book by Sellers and maintains the parentage of Nicole is not convincing. I leave here his full message, so some people can see where I go wrong with the translations.

In Le Parchemin 1976, page 251, Comte Baudouin d'Ursel records the children of Philippe de Noyelles and Antoinette de Mailly (no Nicole) and mentions "Handschriften van Houwaert, handschriften van Lefort en van Poswick: Histoire du Comte de Fallais" Comte d'Ursel warns these are "only simple, basic notes and one should not take them as Gospel."

The source "Lefort" used by Comte d'Ursel was studied by my Dutch contact, and was also seen by Bert Kamp. Copies in circulation are almost unreadable, but the original, which was seen, is perfectly readable.

The information contained here came from family papers of the De Noyelles family which were prepared with 1619 as last entry. These do not mention Nicole de Noyelles.

The family papers De Carpentier, based on information assembled by Jean de Carpentier (born 8 June 1577 in Sandwich) dates from the 17th century and some details were added even later.

My Dutch contact has now seen Edwin Jacquett Sellers "De Carpentier Allied Ancestry", published in 1928 in Philadelphia and according to him it does not contain _acceptable_ proof about the parents of Nicole de Noyelles. Also this book uses material from the unreliable Jean Baptiste Le Carpentier (not a member of the De Carpentier family), author of "Histoire de Cambray et du Cambresis" published in Leiden in 1664. Apparently the opinions of Goethals and d'Hozier about this author are devastating.

A suggestion given is that Nicole de Noyelles _could_ be a daughter of a Jean de Mailly, explaining why both her sons were called Jean. Also is mentioned the possibility that Nicole niet de dochter van Philippe is, but his sister. However a manuscript describing a link to Nicole would then be wrong.

The e-mail goes into much greater detail, but I have stuck as much as possible to the pertinent details.

I feel that the parents of Nicole de Noyelles are not established in an _acceptable_ fashion, which means the line displayed by Gary Boyd Roberts should be ignored.
What a pity.

I look forward to any comments or contributions.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia




----- Original Message -----
From: E.
To: leovdpas@netspeed.com.au
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 8:01 AM
Subject: RE: Nicole de Noyelles & Gary Boyd Roberts


Beste Leo,

Graag los ik mijn belofte in nog eens terug te komen op de kwestie van de afstamming van Nicole de Noyelles. Ik heb inmiddels het boek uit 1928 van Sellers over De Carpentier allied family ancestry kunnen inzien dankzij het IBL-systeem. Het is een prachtig boek, maar waar het gaat om de afstamming van Nicole niet overtuigend. Ten behoeve van de Yahoo ned. soc. adelsgroep maakte ik onderstaand commentaar:
In Le Parchemin 1976 staat op p. 251 een antwoord op een vraag over de familie De Noyelles uit Artois. Het antwoord is opgesteld door comte Baudouin d’Ursel. Hij baseert zich op:

Handschriften van Houwaert, handschriften van Lefort en van Poswick: Histoire du Comte de Fallais. Hij waarschuwt bij zijn presentatien van zijn genealogie De Noyelles:

“.. il ne s’agit la que de simples notes et qu’il ne faut pas les prendre comme évangile.â€

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