Fw: Death of Edward II

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Leo van de Pas

Fw: Death of Edward II

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 03 aug 2007 05:00:58

You were talking about _related_ Mortimer lines-----and I presume you meant
Mortimers related to Roger Mortimer in any way----except male line
connections. I did not say it had to be Ian Mortimer's family. I too implied
Roger had many descendants and I even mentioned a few.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: Death of Edward II


I didn't say Ian Mortimer had to be a descendant of THE Roger Mortimer
[1287-1330], 1st Earl of March, in order to have a bias and an ax to grind.

Although I am one of his descendants -- he's one of my 19th
Great-Grandfathers.

Millions of us have him for an ancestor.

DSH

"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.124.1186112536.31452.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: Death of Edward II

But there are RELATED Mortimer Lines.

DSH

Can you show Mortimer families who are not in the male line linked to
Roger Mortimer, but are related to Roger Mortimer in any way whatsoever?

The number of family names descending from this Roger Mortimer _always
via
females_ is staggering.

For instance, if we stay with genealogists alone, Roger Mortimer is an
ancestor of :

Brice Clagett - J.W. Cummings -Ian Fettes - John Steele Gordon - Gordon
R.
Hale Jr. - Tony Hoskins - Will Johnson - Malinda Jones - Peter de
Loriol -
Sir Ian Moncreiffe - Brom Nichol Jr Merilyn Pedrick - Tim Powys-Lybbe -
John Ravilious - William Addams Reitwiesner - Gary Boyd Roberts - Walter
Lee Sheppard Jr - Louise Staley

The enormous number of descendants of Roger Mortimer till the present may
well contain people with the Mortimer surname, but I haven't found any as
yet.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.121.1186105637.31452.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

He is not claiming any connection, but, of course, everybody is related
to everybody somehow-----we may just not know how.
Still, as far as I know those Mortimers are extinct, also the male line
ancestors of that Roger appear to be without male line descendants,
legitimate or illegitimate.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: Death of Edward II

Of course he could be descended from a different line and therefore be
a RELATIVE of Roger Mortimer.

Some folks, erroneously, call that a "COLLATERAL DESCENDENT" of Roger.

DSH

"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message news:...

Thanks, Leo.

Aloha,

DSH

"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.113.1186101808.31452.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

Before I communicated with Dr. Ian Mortimer I suspected the same,
but
no he told me he is not a descendant. It seems accepted that _those_
Mortimers in the male line are extinct anyway. For him it is perhaps
an unfortunate situation to have the same surname.

I don't think he sees it as letting someone off the hook, I think he
is trying to let facts, as he reports them, speak for themselves.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: Death of Edward II

Does Ian Mortimer trace his ancestry to Roger de Mortimer, 1st Earl
of March?

Is he trying to get said ancestor off the hook for the murder of
Edward II?

Those are the operative questions to ask.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Deus Vult

"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.111.1186100791.31452.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

Dear Brice,

On genealogics I have included Dr. Ian Mortimer's opinion in the
biography of Edward II. I don't think it is frivolous and at least
should be acknowledged.

I do not have access to Paul Doherty's work
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Clagett, Brice" <bclagett@cov.com
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 9:50 AM
Subject: Death of Edward II

Ian Mortimer continues to elaborate his view that King Edward II
was not

killed at Berkeley Castle but survived for many years thereafter.
See
The Greatest Traitor (2003); "The Death of Edward II in Berkeley
Castle,"

HER 120:1175 (2005); The Perfect King (2006). He is not alone in
this
view. See Paul Doherty, Isabella and the Strange Death of Edward
II
(2003).

Is any one writing on the other side? I have seen nothing.



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D. Spencer Hines

Re: Death of Edward II

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 03 aug 2007 05:13:49

Nope.

Please read what I write -- not what you wish I had written.

DSH

"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.126.1186113687.31452.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

You were talking about _related_ Mortimer lines-----and I presume you
meant Mortimers related to Roger Mortimer in any way----except male line
connections. I did not say it had to be Ian Mortimer's family. I too
implied Roger had many descendants and I even mentioned a few.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: Death of Edward II

I didn't say Ian Mortimer had to be a descendant of THE Roger Mortimer
[1287-1330], 1st Earl of March, in order to have a bias and an ax to
grind.

Although I am one of his descendants -- he's one of my 19th
Great-Grandfathers.

Millions of us have him for an ancestor.

DSH

"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.124.1186112536.31452.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: Death of Edward II

But there are RELATED Mortimer Lines.

DSH

Can you show Mortimer families who are not in the male line linked to
Roger Mortimer, but are related to Roger Mortimer in any way whatsoever?

The number of family names descending from this Roger Mortimer _always
via
females_ is staggering.

For instance, if we stay with genealogists alone, Roger Mortimer is an
ancestor of :

Brice Clagett - J.W. Cummings -Ian Fettes - John Steele Gordon - Gordon
R.
Hale Jr. - Tony Hoskins - Will Johnson - Malinda Jones - Peter de
Loriol -
Sir Ian Moncreiffe - Brom Nichol Jr Merilyn Pedrick - Tim Powys-Lybbe -
John Ravilious - William Addams Reitwiesner - Gary Boyd Roberts - Walter
Lee Sheppard Jr - Louise Staley

The enormous number of descendants of Roger Mortimer till the present
may
well contain people with the Mortimer surname, but I haven't found any
as
yet.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.121.1186105637.31452.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

He is not claiming any connection, but, of course, everybody is
related
to everybody somehow-----we may just not know how.
Still, as far as I know those Mortimers are extinct, also the male
line
ancestors of that Roger appear to be without male line descendants,
legitimate or illegitimate.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: Death of Edward II

Of course he could be descended from a different line and therefore
be
a RELATIVE of Roger Mortimer.

Some folks, erroneously, call that a "COLLATERAL DESCENDENT" of
Roger.

DSH

"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message news:...

Thanks, Leo.

Aloha,

DSH

"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.113.1186101808.31452.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

Before I communicated with Dr. Ian Mortimer I suspected the same,
but
no he told me he is not a descendant. It seems accepted that
_those_
Mortimers in the male line are extinct anyway. For him it is
perhaps
an unfortunate situation to have the same surname.

I don't think he sees it as letting someone off the hook, I think
he
is trying to let facts, as he reports them, speak for themselves.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: Death of Edward II

Does Ian Mortimer trace his ancestry to Roger de Mortimer, 1st
Earl
of March?

Is he trying to get said ancestor off the hook for the murder of
Edward II?

Those are the operative questions to ask.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Deus Vult

"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.111.1186100791.31452.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

Dear Brice,

On genealogics I have included Dr. Ian Mortimer's opinion in the
biography of Edward II. I don't think it is frivolous and at
least
should be acknowledged.

I do not have access to Paul Doherty's work
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Clagett, Brice" <bclagett@cov.com
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 9:50 AM
Subject: Death of Edward II

Ian Mortimer continues to elaborate his view that King Edward II
was not

killed at Berkeley Castle but survived for many years
thereafter.
See
The Greatest Traitor (2003); "The Death of Edward II in Berkeley
Castle,"

HER 120:1175 (2005); The Perfect King (2006). He is not alone
in
this
view. See Paul Doherty, Isabella and the Strange Death of Edward
II
(2003).

Is any one writing on the other side? I have seen nothing.



-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message


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