Gospatric of Samlesbury

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paul bulkley

Gospatric of Samlesbury

Legg inn av paul bulkley » 29 jul 2007 22:05:04

The following comments may assist the subscriber who
has an idea that Gospatric of Samlesbury (Lanc) was in
fact of the Curedale family:

As it is claimed that it was custom for the eldest son
to adopt the family name, perhaps a junior Curedale
adopted the name of Samlesbury?

However if we are obliged to accept the statistical
claims of experts regarding the population of
Lancashire during the late 1000s early 1100s, the
population of the county was an average of 3
individuals per square mile. There would have been
very few families in any Hundred.

With that understanding, one would imagine that the
possibility of neighboring families, particularly
related families, being brought in as witnesses,
recipients of grants, marriages, celebrations would be
common. However that never occurred regarding the
Curedales/Samlesburys/Buckleys.

Gospatric of Samlesbury would appear to have been born
1145/55, and according to two subscribers died 1212.
(No evidence given) I have found only five references
to the Curedale family (1190-1320), and no reference
is made to the Samlesbury family. All records apply to
Cockersand Abbey (an interest never demonstrated by
either the Samlesburys or Buckleys)

Gospatric of Samlesbury (according to Whalley Coucher)
had four sons and one daughter (she married Geoffrey
(Junior) Dean of Whalley - Buckley family). No
Curedale was ever invited to be a witness or whatever.
It is also rather significant to note that no Curedale
was recorded at the 1190/1200 Charter Geoffrey Dean
Whalley grant land church Whalley to Uctredo son
Gospatric of Samlesbury!

And no mention can be found of Curedales in the many
records of the Lancashire Buckleys 1150-1300!
Naturally I will be very interested to learn of other
records that dispute that observation.

Regarding the ancestry of Gospatric of Samlesbury, I
set out my thoughts some time ago, and no subscriber
ever responded. And that was despite subscribers
claiming in 1996 and thereafter that Gospatric was the
son of Swain son of Leofwin of Hindley, a claim that
is incorrect.

I am curious how this claim could be supported. If any
reader refers to British History on Line, Lancashire
V.4, and specifically under the heading of Hindley,
the following information is available:

"Swain (s) Leofwin held his holding of Burnehull part
fee of Makerfield - royal manor of Newton in theynage"

"Swain (s) Leofwin gave his holding of Burnehull to a
certain Gospatric in free marriage"

My interpretation of that information is that a
certain Gospatric married a daughter presumably of
Swain (s) Leofwin.

Further evidence continues:

1212: Roger (son) Gospatric of Samlesbury held this
portion of Thomas de Burnhull 2 oxgang in Hindley held
same time by Adam de Hindley of ancient feoffments
(i.e. Title back to Henry 1st). The information
continues stating that Roger's descendants in Hindley
possessed the name "Waleys" (Walsh)

This BOL information clearly indicates that the
Samlesbury family now held property in Hindley. Also
it indicates that the ancestors on the male side of
the Samlesbury was not Leofwin (son) Swain as claimed
by subscribers.

Further evidence of the Gospatric of Samlesbury
presence in Hindley is given in BHO Lancashire V3
under thge heading of "Latham":

"Siward (son) Dunning granted one plough land in
Latham to Gospatric (probably lord of Hindley)
thereafter held by son Roger"

If my interpretation is correct, the question remains
- who were the ancestors (on the male side) of
Gospatric of Samlesbury. Gospatric was born 1135/1145,
married 1165/1175, and had sons Roger, Richard, Alan,
Uctred, and a daughter who married Geoffrey (Junior)
dean of Whalley.

Gospatric possibly had two brothers recorded in the
Lancashire Plea Rolls:

Gilbert of Samlesbury 1187-1194.
Thomas (son) Gospatric held 20A Birt Whistle Hapton
before 1177.

Presumably Gospatric descended from a family of some
wealth. All his children made sound superior marriage
contracts as the records suggest.

Anyone have an idea?

Paul Bulkley




____________________________________________________________________________________
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that gives answers, not web links.
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Gjest

Re: Gospatric of Samlesbury

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 aug 2007 02:15:51

Paul,

I believe that I have a reference that I will look for that mentions
"Alexander de Keuerdale, Lord Hindley" from around 1300.

Also on the Wikipedia Cuerdale page there is a lineage of De Keuerdale
from about 1100 to 1345 that is from the Victoria History Lancashire.
I can pass on inforation in a gedcom file that has many more
references to Keuerdales from that period.

I am interested in the practice of oldest son name that you mentioned
as our family has a practice of giving a second name "Ward " to the
oldest son that dates to at least the 1600s. Were second christian
names used before that period. My research before 1700s always give
only one christian name.

Rob Curedale

On Jul 29, 1:02 pm, paul bulkley <designecono...@yahoo.com> wrote:
The following comments may assist the subscriber who
has an idea that Gospatric of Samlesbury (Lanc) was in
fact of theCuredalefamily:

As it is claimed that it was custom for the eldest son
to adopt the family name, perhaps a juniorCuredale
adopted the name of Samlesbury?

However if we are obliged to accept the statistical
claims of experts regarding the population of
Lancashire during the late 1000s early 1100s, the
population of the county was an average of 3
individuals per square mile. There would have been
very few families in any Hundred.

With that understanding, one would imagine that the
possibility of neighboring families, particularly
related families, being brought in as witnesses,
recipients of grants, marriages, celebrations would be
common. However that never occurred regarding the
Curedales/Samlesburys/Buckleys.

Gospatric of Samlesbury would appear to have been born
1145/55, and according to two subscribers died 1212.
(No evidence given) I have found only five references
to theCuredalefamily (1190-1320), and no reference
is made to the Samlesbury family. All records apply to
Cockersand Abbey (an interest never demonstrated by
either the Samlesburys or Buckleys)

Gospatric of Samlesbury (according to Whalley Coucher)
had four sons and one daughter (she married Geoffrey
(Junior) Dean of Whalley - Buckley family). NoCuredalewas ever invited to be a witness or whatever.
It is also rather significant to note that noCuredale
was recorded at the 1190/1200 Charter Geoffrey Dean
Whalley grant land church Whalley to Uctredo son
Gospatric of Samlesbury!

And no mention can be found of Curedales in the many
records of the Lancashire Buckleys 1150-1300!
Naturally I will be very interested to learn of other
records that dispute that observation.

Regarding the ancestry of Gospatric of Samlesbury, I
set out my thoughts some time ago, and no subscriber
ever responded. And that was despite subscribers
claiming in 1996 and thereafter that Gospatric was the
son of Swain son of Leofwin of Hindley, a claim that
is incorrect.

I am curious how this claim could be supported. If any
reader refers to British History on Line, Lancashire
V.4, and specifically under the heading of Hindley,
the following information is available:

"Swain (s) Leofwin held his holding of Burnehull part
fee of Makerfield - royal manor of Newton in theynage"

"Swain (s) Leofwin gave his holding of Burnehull to a
certain Gospatric in free marriage"

My interpretation of that information is that a
certain Gospatric married a daughter presumably of
Swain (s) Leofwin.

Further evidence continues:

1212: Roger (son) Gospatric of Samlesbury held this
portion of Thomas de Burnhull 2 oxgang in Hindley held
same time by Adam de Hindley of ancient feoffments
(i.e. Title back to Henry 1st). The information
continues stating that Roger's descendants in Hindley
possessed the name "Waleys" (Walsh)

This BOL information clearly indicates that the
Samlesbury family now held property in Hindley. Also
it indicates that the ancestors on the male side of
the Samlesbury was not Leofwin (son) Swain as claimed
by subscribers.

Further evidence of the Gospatric of Samlesbury
presence in Hindley is given in BHO Lancashire V3
under thge heading of "Latham":

"Siward (son) Dunning granted one plough land in
Latham to Gospatric (probably lord of Hindley)
thereafter held by son Roger"

If my interpretation is correct, the question remains
- who were the ancestors (on the male side) of
Gospatric of Samlesbury. Gospatric was born 1135/1145,
married 1165/1175, and had sons Roger, Richard, Alan,
Uctred, and a daughter who married Geoffrey (Junior)
dean of Whalley.

Gospatric possibly had two brothers recorded in the
Lancashire Plea Rolls:

Gilbert of Samlesbury 1187-1194.
Thomas (son) Gospatric held 20A Birt Whistle Hapton
before 1177.

Presumably Gospatric descended from a family of some
wealth. All his children made sound superior marriage
contracts as the records suggest.

Anyone have an idea?

Paul Bulkley

___________________________________________________________________________­_________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
that gives answers, not web links.http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onese ... fer=1ONXIC

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