/
2.Beatrix
/
3.Marie of Brittany
/
4.Isabel de Chatillon
-x-Guillaume de Coucy
/
5.Aubert de Coucy
-x-Jeanne de Ville-Savoir
/
6.Marie de Coucy
-x-Gilles VI de Mailly
/
7.Colart de Mailly
-x-Marie de Mailly
/
8.Jean II de Mailly
-x-Catherine de Mamez
/
9.Antoinette de Mailly
-x-Philippe de Noyelles
/
10.Nicole de Noyelles
-x-Jean de Villers
/
11.Isabella de Villers
-x-Jean de Carpentier
/
12.Roelant de Carpentier
-x-Josina van Hecke
This line (with two more later generations) appears in GBR's 500 and 600 Immigrants. As sources he gives ES for Coucy, Chatillon-St.Pol and Brittany; and Edwin Jacquett Sellers "De Carpentier Allied Ancestry: Ancestry of Maria de Carpentier, Wife of Jean Paul Jaquet, published in 1928.
From The Netherlands I received a message which doubt that Nicole de Noyelles was a daughter of Antoinette de Mailly, and perhaps was an illegitimate daughter of Philippe de Noyelles.
Two reasons are given, in 1909 Edwin Jacquett Sellers published a book about the Carpentiers of Philadelphia and in this book nothing is given about the parents of Nicole de Noyelles. He owns a copy of this publication and he has not seen the 1928 publication. The second reason given is that in the families Vilers and De Carpentier no properties are owned which originated from the de Noyelles or Mailly families.
Also according to this person, a generation is missing in the above lineage. As GBR does not supply dates, this is not apparent.
He admits that he has seen several sources which give that Philippe de Noyelles, baron de Tercy and chambellan du Duc de Bourgogne and Antoinette de Mailly, dame de Ploich et de La Cliqueterie, contracted their marriage on 30 December 1452. (Can anyone quote a source for this marriage?). He guesses that Nicole de Noyelles was born between 1453 and 1460 and may have been married prior to marrying Jan de Vilers. They had two sons Jan the Old and Jan the Young, the latter was born about 1480. This Jan married Maria Philipsdr. van Mijseele and they had five children: Grietje, Antonia, Antoni, Maria and Isabella.
Isabella mentioned in GBR's lineage was born about 1512 in Mesen and died 15 May 1584 in Middelburg. She married Pieter de Carpentier, whose father as a widower had married Maria Philipsdr. van Mijseele. This made Maria Philipsdr. van Mijseele the step-mother and mother-in-law of Pieter de Carpentier.
What is asked, can anyone confirm that Nicole de Noyelles is a daughter of Philippe de Noyelles and Antoinette de Mailly; as well is there a source for the latter's marriage?
With many thanks.
Leo van de Pas,
Canberra, Australia