Dear Group:
Are ther any things similar to the Heralds' Visitaions, (or Burke's Landed Gentry), for the Medieval Netherlands?
Ford
Visitations?
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Turenne
Re: Visitations?
On 14 Jul, 16:26, "Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommae...@cox.net>
wrote:
Is this any help, it's not exactly what you were looking for, but is
interesting nonetheless.
http://www.heraldique-europeenne.org/Ar ... index.html
Richard Lichen
wrote:
Dear Group:
Are ther any things similar to the Heralds' Visitaions, (or Burke's Landed Gentry), for the Medieval Netherlands?
Ford
Is this any help, it's not exactly what you were looking for, but is
interesting nonetheless.
http://www.heraldique-europeenne.org/Ar ... index.html
Richard Lichen
-
Volucris
Re: Visitations?
On 14 jul, 17:26, "Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommae...@cox.net>
wrote:
Ford,
Heralds visitations have been mentioned quite a lot on this newsgroup.
Those who have seen them know what info they can provide.
Can you, or any other researcher, inform us Dutch what to look for,
or describe us what usually can be found in a visitation?
With regards,
Hasn Vogels
Maybe an answer can be given when
wrote:
Dear Group:
Are ther any things similar to the Heralds' Visitaions, (or Burke's Landed Gentry), for the Medieval Netherlands?
Ford
Ford,
Heralds visitations have been mentioned quite a lot on this newsgroup.
Those who have seen them know what info they can provide.
Can you, or any other researcher, inform us Dutch what to look for,
or describe us what usually can be found in a visitation?
With regards,
Hasn Vogels
Maybe an answer can be given when
-
Turenne
Re: Visitations?
On 16 Jul, 14:52, Volucris <voluc...@kpnplanet.nl> wrote:
Here are some interesting and informative pieces that will hopefully
answer your question.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.he ... 45575b9585
http://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain ... tations-17
Richard Lichten
On 14 jul, 17:26, "Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommae...@cox.net
wrote:
Dear Group:
Are ther any things similar to the Heralds' Visitaions, (or Burke's Landed Gentry), for the Medieval Netherlands?
Ford
Ford,
Heralds visitations have been mentioned quite a lot on this newsgroup.
Those who have seen them know what info they can provide.
Can you, or any other researcher, inform us Dutch what to look for,
or describe us what usually can be found in a visitation?
With regards,
Hasn Vogels
Maybe an answer can be given when
Here are some interesting and informative pieces that will hopefully
answer your question.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.he ... 45575b9585
http://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain ... tations-17
Richard Lichten
-
Volucris
Re: Visitations?
On 14 jul, 17:26, "Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommae...@cox.net>
wrote:
Richard's refference was quite informative and helpfull.
To my knowledge no such centralised institution as the Heralds
Visitations existed in the Netherlands. The Netherlands were
historically speaking a conglomerate of duchies, counties and
lordships under the Holy Roman Emperor. No centralised state.
Brabant, Holland and Gelre came eventually in the possession of one
hand through inheritance: first the dukes of Burgundy and later the
Habsburgers that became emperor of Spain. In the second half of the
16th century the call for religious reforms ignited several parts of
the country into rebellion and civil war. The Northern provinces
separated themself and choose a new leader from the family of Nassau.
But this leadership was under strict supervision of a parlement. There
have been periods that our country leaned from republic to monarchy
and back. The Southern Netherlands were occupied territory.
There was no centralised control on the assuming or wearing of arms.
We had a horizontal society: the poor, farmers, craftsmen, clergymen,
merchants, the well offs and the class of the gentry. The wearing of
arms was more a matter of blood, education and pretension. The gentry
had priviliges though of being exempt of certain taxes. There are lots
of court cases in which the poorer gentry claimed to be of noble
blood. Pretensions to rise beyond the horizontal stratigrafy were only
occasionly succesfull. In the 16th century the gentry became bit by
bit a more closed community.
(Belgium was still Spanish). He then commisioned heralds to research
such claims. Some of those heralds have misused their position. On the
knowledge of the question of (medieval) arms one has to rely on luck
that a drawing, seal, windowpane, memorial boards, gravestone,
choniquers, family traditions, paintings preserved a particular family
weapon. Besides these individual preserved arms there are a few
heralds (for instance the Herald Gelre) known who left books with
personal and family arms.
Hans Vogels
wrote:
Dear Group:
Are ther any things similar to the Heralds' Visitaions, (or Burke's Landed Gentry), for the Medieval Netherlands?
Ford
Richard's refference was quite informative and helpfull.
To my knowledge no such centralised institution as the Heralds
Visitations existed in the Netherlands. The Netherlands were
historically speaking a conglomerate of duchies, counties and
lordships under the Holy Roman Emperor. No centralised state.
Brabant, Holland and Gelre came eventually in the possession of one
hand through inheritance: first the dukes of Burgundy and later the
Habsburgers that became emperor of Spain. In the second half of the
16th century the call for religious reforms ignited several parts of
the country into rebellion and civil war. The Northern provinces
separated themself and choose a new leader from the family of Nassau.
But this leadership was under strict supervision of a parlement. There
have been periods that our country leaned from republic to monarchy
and back. The Southern Netherlands were occupied territory.
There was no centralised control on the assuming or wearing of arms.
We had a horizontal society: the poor, farmers, craftsmen, clergymen,
merchants, the well offs and the class of the gentry. The wearing of
arms was more a matter of blood, education and pretension. The gentry
had priviliges though of being exempt of certain taxes. There are lots
of court cases in which the poorer gentry claimed to be of noble
blood. Pretensions to rise beyond the horizontal stratigrafy were only
occasionly succesfull. In the 16th century the gentry became bit by
bit a more closed community.
From the second half of the 17th century there are examples known of
persons who wanted to claim nobility and turned to the Spanish king
(Belgium was still Spanish). He then commisioned heralds to research
such claims. Some of those heralds have misused their position. On the
knowledge of the question of (medieval) arms one has to rely on luck
that a drawing, seal, windowpane, memorial boards, gravestone,
choniquers, family traditions, paintings preserved a particular family
weapon. Besides these individual preserved arms there are a few
heralds (for instance the Herald Gelre) known who left books with
personal and family arms.
Hans Vogels