Fw: Sororius

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Ford Mommaerts-Browne

Fw: Sororius

Legg inn av Ford Mommaerts-Browne » 11 jul 2007 02:23:19

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: Sororius


:
: "Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommaerts@cox.net> wrote in message
: news:mailman.4316.1184073315.5576.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
: > Compare Egbert's wife, 'sororia' of the French king. Dave Kelley
: > thesizes that 'sororia', in this case, means father's sister's daughter.
:
: This sounds like yet another instance of Kelley's habit of making it up as
: he goes along to suit his preconceived notions - see below.
:
: > Could soror- mean simply and generally, a relationship through
: > sorority, i.e. a genealogical sisterhood?
:
: Possibly, but there is a lack of demonstrable examples of this kind of vague
: and/or encompassing usage.
:
: The literal meaning of sororius/sororia is "pertaining to a sister", so that
: the term _might_ be used for anyone related through an individual's sister
: without offending the etymological sense. However, there are specific terms
: for relatives on the father's side, for paternal aunts and for cousins, and
: obviously none of these relationships is "sisterly" in a genealogical sense.
: There are a few examples where "soror" _might_ mean a female cousin, but if
: so these simplifications - whether from unusual family arrangements,
: ignorance or lack of care about the details - do not give a warrant for
: extension of this rare usage to the adjective without other evidence.
:
: A wife's brother is included as "sororius" because the relationship from his
: side, obviously, is through a sister, so that this is a logical application
: that does not break with the literal meaning whereas the apparently
: illogical, nonce definition suggested by Kelley certainly does.
:
: Peter Stewart
:

So..., that being said, do you have a suggestion for the origin of Radburga? Just curious.
Ford

Peter Stewart

Re: Sororius

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 11 jul 2007 04:24:22

"Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommaerts@cox.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.4338.1184117027.5576.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: Sororius


:
: "Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommaerts@cox.net> wrote in message
: news:mailman.4316.1184073315.5576.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
: > Compare Egbert's wife, 'sororia' of the French king. Dave Kelley
: > thesizes that 'sororia', in this case, means father's sister's
daughter.
:
: This sounds like yet another instance of Kelley's habit of making it up
as
: he goes along to suit his preconceived notions - see below.
:
: > Could soror- mean simply and generally, a relationship through
: > sorority, i.e. a genealogical sisterhood?
:
: Possibly, but there is a lack of demonstrable examples of this kind of
vague
: and/or encompassing usage.
:
: The literal meaning of sororius/sororia is "pertaining to a sister", so
that
: the term _might_ be used for anyone related through an individual's
sister
: without offending the etymological sense. However, there are specific
terms
: for relatives on the father's side, for paternal aunts and for cousins,
and
: obviously none of these relationships is "sisterly" in a genealogical
sense.
: There are a few examples where "soror" _might_ mean a female cousin, but
if
: so these simplifications - whether from unusual family arrangements,
: ignorance or lack of care about the details - do not give a warrant for
: extension of this rare usage to the adjective without other evidence.
:
: A wife's brother is included as "sororius" because the relationship from
his
: side, obviously, is through a sister, so that this is a logical
application
: that does not break with the literal meaning whereas the apparently
: illogical, nonce definition suggested by Kelley certainly does.
:
: Peter Stewart
:

So..., that being said, do you have a suggestion for the origin of
Radburga? Just curious.

I don't think suggestions are much use - the sole evidence for her name and
alleged relationship as sister-in-law to a Frankish king is late and its
accuracy can't be established. If this was taken from a contemporary source,
that (along with the precise chronology) is also unknown, the king of Franks
referred to is likeliest to have been Charlemagne, but he had so many
consorts that it is pointless to take a pick that can only be based on too
little information, which may not be genuine anyway.

The kind of genealogical theorising that compulsively produces answers to
unanswerable puzzles may keep some people occupied, but this is usually ones
like Kelley who are far too readily impressed by the little they _do_ know &
fail to enquire diligently from the start into what they _don't_ know about
a subject of interest.

Peter Stewart

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