Fw: Sororius

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Ford Mommaerts-Browne

Fw: Sororius

Legg inn av Ford Mommaerts-Browne » 10 jul 2007 14:11:15

Compare Egbert's wife, 'sororia' of the French king. Dave Kelley thesizes that 'sororia', in this case, means father's sister's daughter. Could soror- mean simply and generally, a relationship through sorority, i.e. a genealogical sisterhood?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Volucris" <volucris@kpnplanet.nl>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 2:08 AM
Subject: Sororius


: Can the Latin word 'sororius' have a wider more vague meaning than
: the classical meaning of:
: - of a sister,
: - sisters husband,
: - my wife's brother,
: - brother in law.
:
: Jan of Nassau, bishop elect of Utrecht names Jan I, lord of Cuijk, as
: his sororius. One might question on chronological grounds that Jutta
: (the wife of Jan I) was not a younger sister of the elect but more
: likely one generation more removed. Only from their son Otto it is
: with certainty known that he was the son of Jutta and that he
: inherited Nassau possessions. Otto had several sisters that are
: thought to have married around 1300 and later.
:
: With regards to the meaning of sororius the thought cropped my mind
: that Jutta could have been a daughter of a sister of the bishop elect.
:
: In 1255 the brothers Walram and Otto of Nassau divided their
: patrimonial. In the charter of the division only one other close
: family member is mentioned: their sister Elisabeth, widow of Gerhard,
: lord of Eppenstein. There were other brother and sisters not mentioned
: but of those it is known that they chose a religious life. 'Sister'
: Jutta is not mentioned in the division of 1255.
:
: Jutta is supposed to have married around 1260. She is seen as the
: mother of all of Jan I 's children. A more critical review of the
: facts shows that the first sign of a family relation between Cuijk and
: Nassau is from the mid seventies when Jan I shows up as witness in the
: deeds of Jan van Nassau, bishop elect of Utrecht 1267-1288.
:
: Could the meaning of sororius in that time have been stretched from
: sisters husband to sisters daughter's husband?
:
: With regards,
: Hans Vogels
:
:
: -------------------------------
: To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Peter Stewart

Re: Sororius

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 10 jul 2007 23:45:32

"Ford Mommaerts-Browne" <FordMommaerts@cox.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.4316.1184073315.5576.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
Compare Egbert's wife, 'sororia' of the French king. Dave Kelley
thesizes that 'sororia', in this case, means father's sister's daughter.

This sounds like yet another instance of Kelley's habit of making it up as
he goes along to suit his preconceived notions - see below.

Could soror- mean simply and generally, a relationship through
sorority, i.e. a genealogical sisterhood?

Possibly, but there is a lack of demonstrable examples of this kind of vague
and/or encompassing usage.

The literal meaning of sororius/sororia is "pertaining to a sister", so that
the term _might_ be used for anyone related through an individual's sister
without offending the etymological sense. However, there are specific terms
for relatives on the father's side, for paternal aunts and for cousins, and
obviously none of these relationships is "sisterly" in a genealogical sense.
There are a few examples where "soror" _might_ mean a female cousin, but if
so these simplifications - whether from unusual family arrangements,
ignorance or lack of care about the details - do not give a warrant for
extension of this rare usage to the adjective without other evidence.

A wife's brother is included as "sororius" because the relationship from his
side, obviously, is through a sister, so that this is a logical application
that does not break with the literal meaning whereas the apparently
illogical, nonce definition suggested by Kelley certainly does.

Peter Stewart


----- Original Message -----
From: "Volucris" <volucris@kpnplanet.nl
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 2:08 AM
Subject: Sororius


: Can the Latin word 'sororius' have a wider more vague meaning than
: the classical meaning of:
: - of a sister,
: - sisters husband,
: - my wife's brother,
: - brother in law.
:
: Jan of Nassau, bishop elect of Utrecht names Jan I, lord of Cuijk, as
: his sororius. One might question on chronological grounds that Jutta
: (the wife of Jan I) was not a younger sister of the elect but more
: likely one generation more removed. Only from their son Otto it is
: with certainty known that he was the son of Jutta and that he
: inherited Nassau possessions. Otto had several sisters that are
: thought to have married around 1300 and later.
:
: With regards to the meaning of sororius the thought cropped my mind
: that Jutta could have been a daughter of a sister of the bishop elect.
:
: In 1255 the brothers Walram and Otto of Nassau divided their
: patrimonial. In the charter of the division only one other close
: family member is mentioned: their sister Elisabeth, widow of Gerhard,
: lord of Eppenstein. There were other brother and sisters not mentioned
: but of those it is known that they chose a religious life. 'Sister'
: Jutta is not mentioned in the division of 1255.
:
: Jutta is supposed to have married around 1260. She is seen as the
: mother of all of Jan I 's children. A more critical review of the
: facts shows that the first sign of a family relation between Cuijk and
: Nassau is from the mid seventies when Jan I shows up as witness in the
: deeds of Jan van Nassau, bishop elect of Utrecht 1267-1288.
:
: Could the meaning of sororius in that time have been stretched from
: sisters husband to sisters daughter's husband?
:
: With regards,
: Hans Vogels
:
:
: -------------------------------
: To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message

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