Can the Latin word 'sororius' have a wider more vague meaning than
the classical meaning of:
- of a sister,
- sisters husband,
- my wife's brother,
- brother in law.
Jan of Nassau, bishop elect of Utrecht names Jan I, lord of Cuijk, as
his sororius. One might question on chronological grounds that Jutta
(the wife of Jan I) was not a younger sister of the elect but more
likely one generation more removed. Only from their son Otto it is
with certainty known that he was the son of Jutta and that he
inherited Nassau possessions. Otto had several sisters that are
thought to have married around 1300 and later.
With regards to the meaning of sororius the thought cropped my mind
that Jutta could have been a daughter of a sister of the bishop elect.
In 1255 the brothers Walram and Otto of Nassau divided their
patrimonial. In the charter of the division only one other close
family member is mentioned: their sister Elisabeth, widow of Gerhard,
lord of Eppenstein. There were other brother and sisters not mentioned
but of those it is known that they chose a religious life. 'Sister'
Jutta is not mentioned in the division of 1255.
Jutta is supposed to have married around 1260. She is seen as the
mother of all of Jan I 's children. A more critical review of the
facts shows that the first sign of a family relation between Cuijk and
Nassau is from the mid seventies when Jan I shows up as witness in the
deeds of Jan van Nassau, bishop elect of Utrecht 1267-1288.
Could the meaning of sororius in that time have been stretched from
sisters husband to sisters daughter's husband?
With regards,
Hans Vogels
Sororius
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Peter Stewart
Re: Sororius
"Volucris" <volucris@kpnplanet.nl> wrote in message
news:1184051319.741411.214460@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
I don't know of an instance where "sororius" can be shown to indicate the
husband of a niece, but I don't think the term could be flatly precluded for
this relationship.
Du Cange recorded the definitions "sororis maritus" (sister's husband) and
"uxoris frater" (wife's brother) with examples, and also "sororis filius"
(sister's son) citing an earlier glossary.
Isidore of Seville stated that there were no particular terms for a sister's
husband or a wife's brother ("Sororis vir speciale nomen non habet, nec
uxoris frater").
"Sororius" certainly became the most common term for a male in-law in the
same generation, and it would require some good evidence to prove that this
extended to a relative by marriage once removed. Could Jan of Cuijk's wife
Jutta have been a much younger half-sister (or perhaps illegitimate sister)
to Jan of Nassau?
Peter Stewart
news:1184051319.741411.214460@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Can the Latin word 'sororius' have a wider more vague meaning than
the classical meaning of:
- of a sister,
- sisters husband,
- my wife's brother,
- brother in law.
Jan of Nassau, bishop elect of Utrecht names Jan I, lord of Cuijk, as
his sororius. One might question on chronological grounds that Jutta
(the wife of Jan I) was not a younger sister of the elect but more
likely one generation more removed. Only from their son Otto it is
with certainty known that he was the son of Jutta and that he
inherited Nassau possessions. Otto had several sisters that are
thought to have married around 1300 and later.
With regards to the meaning of sororius the thought cropped my mind
that Jutta could have been a daughter of a sister of the bishop elect.
In 1255 the brothers Walram and Otto of Nassau divided their
patrimonial. In the charter of the division only one other close
family member is mentioned: their sister Elisabeth, widow of Gerhard,
lord of Eppenstein. There were other brother and sisters not mentioned
but of those it is known that they chose a religious life. 'Sister'
Jutta is not mentioned in the division of 1255.
Jutta is supposed to have married around 1260. She is seen as the
mother of all of Jan I 's children. A more critical review of the
facts shows that the first sign of a family relation between Cuijk and
Nassau is from the mid seventies when Jan I shows up as witness in the
deeds of Jan van Nassau, bishop elect of Utrecht 1267-1288.
Could the meaning of sororius in that time have been stretched from
sisters husband to sisters daughter's husband?
I don't know of an instance where "sororius" can be shown to indicate the
husband of a niece, but I don't think the term could be flatly precluded for
this relationship.
Du Cange recorded the definitions "sororis maritus" (sister's husband) and
"uxoris frater" (wife's brother) with examples, and also "sororis filius"
(sister's son) citing an earlier glossary.
Isidore of Seville stated that there were no particular terms for a sister's
husband or a wife's brother ("Sororis vir speciale nomen non habet, nec
uxoris frater").
"Sororius" certainly became the most common term for a male in-law in the
same generation, and it would require some good evidence to prove that this
extended to a relative by marriage once removed. Could Jan of Cuijk's wife
Jutta have been a much younger half-sister (or perhaps illegitimate sister)
to Jan of Nassau?
Peter Stewart
-
Volucris
Re: Sororius
Thank you Peter, for clearing this point.
There are no indications that Jutta van Nassau was a younger
halfsister or an illegitimate sister of the elect Jan van Nassau. The
familie of the Nassau's (ancestors of our royal house) has been a
popular subject in the past.
To clear any remaining doubts I'm going to check the facts that
indicate or suggest that the elect was a younger son of count Hendrik
II of Nassau and Mechteld van Gelre.
With regards,
Hans Vogels
On 10 jul, 10:51, "Peter Stewart" <p_m_stew...@msn.com> wrote:
There are no indications that Jutta van Nassau was a younger
halfsister or an illegitimate sister of the elect Jan van Nassau. The
familie of the Nassau's (ancestors of our royal house) has been a
popular subject in the past.
To clear any remaining doubts I'm going to check the facts that
indicate or suggest that the elect was a younger son of count Hendrik
II of Nassau and Mechteld van Gelre.
With regards,
Hans Vogels
On 10 jul, 10:51, "Peter Stewart" <p_m_stew...@msn.com> wrote:
"Volucris" <voluc...@kpnplanet.nl> wrote in message
news:1184051319.741411.214460@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Can the Latin word 'sororius' have a wider more vague meaning than
the classical meaning of:
- of a sister,
- sisters husband,
- my wife's brother,
- brother in law.
Jan of Nassau, bishop elect of Utrecht names Jan I, lord of Cuijk, as
his sororius. One might question on chronological grounds that Jutta
(the wife of Jan I) was not a younger sister of the elect but more
likely one generation more removed. Only from their son Otto it is
with certainty known that he was the son of Jutta and that he
inherited Nassau possessions. Otto had several sisters that are
thought to have married around 1300 and later.
With regards to the meaning of sororius the thought cropped my mind
that Jutta could have been a daughter of a sister of the bishop elect.
In 1255 the brothers Walram and Otto of Nassau divided their
patrimonial. In the charter of the division only one other close
family member is mentioned: their sister Elisabeth, widow of Gerhard,
lord of Eppenstein. There were other brother and sisters not mentioned
but of those it is known that they chose a religious life. 'Sister'
Jutta is not mentioned in the division of 1255.
Jutta is supposed to have married around 1260. She is seen as the
mother of all of Jan I 's children. A more critical review of the
facts shows that the first sign of a family relation between Cuijk and
Nassau is from the mid seventies when Jan I shows up as witness in the
deeds of Jan van Nassau, bishop elect of Utrecht 1267-1288.
Could the meaning of sororius in that time have been stretched from
sisters husband to sisters daughter's husband?
I don't know of an instance where "sororius" can be shown to indicate the
husband of a niece, but I don't think the term could be flatly precluded for
this relationship.
Du Cange recorded the definitions "sororis maritus" (sister's husband) and
"uxoris frater" (wife's brother) with examples, and also "sororis filius"
(sister's son) citing an earlier glossary.
Isidore of Seville stated that there were no particular terms for a sister's
husband or a wife's brother ("Sororis vir speciale nomen non habet, nec
uxoris frater").
"Sororius" certainly became the most common term for a male in-law in the
same generation, and it would require some good evidence to prove that this
extended to a relative by marriage once removed. Could Jan of Cuijk's wife
Jutta have been a much younger half-sister (or perhaps illegitimate sister)
to Jan of Nassau?
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