Can anybody provide any information on the names of the children of
William Cavendish ?
From: "In the Shadow of the Throne", by Ruth Norrington (2002) pages
19, 20, etc.:-
In 1530, as plain William Cavendish, he had visited the monasteries
to arrange the surrender of
their properties. He acquired at that time the Abbey of Sheen.
His first wife was Margaret Bostock, who gave him two daughters, but
she then died in 1540.
By 1541 Cavendish was serving as Auditor of the Court of
Augmentations, and received grants
of land in Hertfordshire.
In 1542 he was re-married to Elizabeth Parker, but they had no
children before she also died.
By 1546 he was "Treasurer of the King's Chamber", and had been
knighted, and sworn in as a
member of the Privy Council. King Henry VIII was devoted to him,
and after Henry's death, his
son, Edward VI, continued to favour Cavendish, and increased his
landed property.
In that same year he met his third wife, a widow, formerly Bess
Hardwick, of Hardwick Hall,
Derbyshire, who was then a lady-in-waiting to Frances Grey,
Marchioness of Dorset, Duchess
of Suffolk, (the mother of Lady Jane Grey); he married Bess in 1549.
Together they had a total
of eight children, of which six survived to exploit their
opportunities as step-children of Bess's
fourth husband, the Earl of Shrewsbury.
After his marriage to Bess, Cavendish sold all his properties in the
south and purchased the
Manor of Chatsworth in Derbyshire from his wife's family, while
maintaining a London house
in Chelsea.
He served as the Queen's Treasurer to Queen Mary after 1553, but died
in London on 25 Oct.,
1557.
His two daughters by his first marriage were deprived of their
inheritance, thanks to the efforts
of Bess, their more,than somewhat avaricious step-mother.
Can anybody tell me the names of his first two daughters, and what
subsequently became of
them ? I believe one of them was named Frances Cavendish, but it
seems that one of Sir
Williams' daughters with Bess was also named Frances, so there may
be some confusion ?
My thanks in advance to anybody who can help me.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Kirton, Canada
Sir William Cavendish,(died 1557)
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Gjest
Re: Sir William Cavendish,(died 1557)
The very readable and sympathetic biography of Bess, Mary S Lovell,
Bess of Hardwick : first lady of Chatsworth (Abacus, 2005), gives the
following information about the 16 children of William Cavendish:
William Cavendish c.1505-1557
+ (1.) 1532 Margaret, dau. Edmund Bostock, d. 1540
2. Elizabeth b. 1534 d. bef 1540.
2. Katherine b. 1535, d. aft 1547
2. John d. inf
2. Mary d. aft 1547
2. Ann b. 1540. Married Sir Henry Boynton in 1561
+ (2.) 1542 Elizabeth, dau. Thomas Parker of Postingford, Suffolk, d.
1546 in childbirth
2. Susan b. Oct 1544, d. inf
2. John b. 1545 d. inf
2. female b. 1546, stillborn
+ (3) Elizabeth, dau.John Hardwick, 1527-1608
2. Frances b.1548 d. aft 1608, had issue
+ Sir Henry Pierrepoint
2. Temperance b.1549 d. 1549
2. Henry 1550-1616 s.p.l.
+ Grace Talbot
2.William Ist Earl of Devonshire 1551-1625, had issue
+ Anne Keighly d. 1598
+ Elizabeth Wortley
2.Charles 1553-1617, had issue
+ Margaret Kitson d. 1582
+Catherine Ogle
2. Elizabeth 1555-1582, had issue
+ Charles Stuart, 5th earl Lennox 1555-1576
2.Mary 1556-1632, had issue
+ Gilbert Talbot, 7th Earl Shrewsbury (eldest son of Bess's 4th
husband, George Talbot)
2. Lucres 1557-1557
Ann Cavendish had 700 pounds on her marriage with Sir Henry Baynton.
The marriage was arranged through Bess's second husband, Sir William
St Loe, whose first wife was Jane Baynton 1523-1549 (dau. of Sir
Edward Baynton), and his two surviving daughters by her were brought
up in the Baynton household after their mother's death.
There is no mention of any marriage for the other daughters of
Margaret Bostock so I assume they did not survive to adulthood.
Cheers
Rosie
On Jun 13, 10:26 pm, jonathan kirton <jonathankir...@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
Bess of Hardwick : first lady of Chatsworth (Abacus, 2005), gives the
following information about the 16 children of William Cavendish:
William Cavendish c.1505-1557
+ (1.) 1532 Margaret, dau. Edmund Bostock, d. 1540
2. Elizabeth b. 1534 d. bef 1540.
2. Katherine b. 1535, d. aft 1547
2. John d. inf
2. Mary d. aft 1547
2. Ann b. 1540. Married Sir Henry Boynton in 1561
+ (2.) 1542 Elizabeth, dau. Thomas Parker of Postingford, Suffolk, d.
1546 in childbirth
2. Susan b. Oct 1544, d. inf
2. John b. 1545 d. inf
2. female b. 1546, stillborn
+ (3) Elizabeth, dau.John Hardwick, 1527-1608
2. Frances b.1548 d. aft 1608, had issue
+ Sir Henry Pierrepoint
2. Temperance b.1549 d. 1549
2. Henry 1550-1616 s.p.l.
+ Grace Talbot
2.William Ist Earl of Devonshire 1551-1625, had issue
+ Anne Keighly d. 1598
+ Elizabeth Wortley
2.Charles 1553-1617, had issue
+ Margaret Kitson d. 1582
+Catherine Ogle
2. Elizabeth 1555-1582, had issue
+ Charles Stuart, 5th earl Lennox 1555-1576
2.Mary 1556-1632, had issue
+ Gilbert Talbot, 7th Earl Shrewsbury (eldest son of Bess's 4th
husband, George Talbot)
2. Lucres 1557-1557
Ann Cavendish had 700 pounds on her marriage with Sir Henry Baynton.
The marriage was arranged through Bess's second husband, Sir William
St Loe, whose first wife was Jane Baynton 1523-1549 (dau. of Sir
Edward Baynton), and his two surviving daughters by her were brought
up in the Baynton household after their mother's death.
There is no mention of any marriage for the other daughters of
Margaret Bostock so I assume they did not survive to adulthood.
Cheers
Rosie
On Jun 13, 10:26 pm, jonathan kirton <jonathankir...@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
Can anybody provide any information on the names of the children of
William Cavendish ?
From: "In the Shadow of the Throne", by Ruth Norrington (2002) pages
19, 20, etc.:-
In 1530, as plain William Cavendish, he had visited the monasteries
to arrange the surrender of
their properties. He acquired at that time the Abbey of Sheen.
His first wife was Margaret Bostock, who gave him two daughters, but
she then died in 1540.
By 1541 Cavendish was serving as Auditor of the Court of
Augmentations, and received grants
of land in Hertfordshire.
In 1542 he was re-married to Elizabeth Parker, but they had no
children before she also died.
By 1546 he was "Treasurer of the King's Chamber", and had been
knighted, and sworn in as a
member of the Privy Council. King Henry VIII was devoted to him,
and after Henry's death, his
son, Edward VI, continued to favour Cavendish, and increased his
landed property.
In that same year he met his third wife, a widow, formerly Bess
Hardwick, of Hardwick Hall,
Derbyshire, who was then a lady-in-waiting to Frances Grey,
Marchioness of Dorset, Duchess
of Suffolk, (the mother of Lady Jane Grey); he married Bess in 1549.
Together they had a total
of eight children, of which six survived to exploit their
opportunities as step-children of Bess's
fourth husband, the Earl of Shrewsbury.
After his marriage to Bess, Cavendish sold all his properties in the
south and purchased the
Manor of Chatsworth in Derbyshire from his wife's family, while
maintaining a London house
in Chelsea.
He served as the Queen's Treasurer to Queen Mary after 1553, but died
in London on 25 Oct.,
1557.
His two daughters by his first marriage were deprived of their
inheritance, thanks to the efforts
of Bess, their more,than somewhat avaricious step-mother.
Can anybody tell me the names of his first two daughters, and what
subsequently became of
them ? I believe one of them was named Frances Cavendish, but it
seems that one of Sir
Williams' daughters with Bess was also named Frances, so there may
be some confusion ?
My thanks in advance to anybody who can help me.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Kirton, Canada
-
Rosie Bevan
Re: Sir William Cavendish,(died 1557)
The very readable and sympathetic biography of Bess, by Mary S Lovell,
Bess of Hardwick : first lady of Chatsworth (Abacus, 2005) gives the
following information about the 16 children of William Cavendish:
William Cavendish c.1505-1557
+ (1.) 1532 Margaret, dau. Edmund Bostock, d. 1540
2. Elizabeth b. 1534 d. bef 1540.
2. Katherine b. 1535, d. aft 1547
2. John d. inf
2. Mary d. aft 1547
2. Ann b. 1540. Married Sir Henry Boynton in 1561
+ (2.) 1542 Elizabeth, dau. Thomas Parker of Postingford, Suffolk, d.
1546 in childbirth
2. Susan b. Oct 1544, d. inf
2. John b. 1545 d. inf
2. female b. 1546, stillborn
+ (3) Elizabeth, dau.John Hardwick, 1527-1608
2. Frances b.1548 d. aft 1608, had issue
+ Sir Henry Pierrepoint
2. Temperance b.1549 d. 1549
2. Henry 1550-1616 s.p.l.
+ Grace Talbot
2.William Ist Earl of Devonshire 1551-1625, had issue
+ Anne Keighly d. 1598
+ Elizabeth Wortley
2.Charles 1553-1617, had issue
+ Margaret Kitson d. 1582
+Catherine Ogle
2. Elizabeth 1555-1582, had issue
+ Charles Stuart, 5th earl Lennox 1555-1576
2.Mary 1556-1632, had issue
+ Gilbert Talbot, 7th Earl Shrewsbury (eldest son of Bess's 4th
husband, George Talbot)
2. Lucres 1557-1557
Ann Cavendish had 700 pounds on her marriage with Sir Henry Baynton.
The marriage was arranged through Bess's second husband, Sir William
St Loe, whose first wife was Jane Baynton 1523-1549 (dau. of Sir
Edward Baynton), and his two surviving daughters by her were brought
up in the Baynton household after their mother's death.
There is no mention of any marriage for the other daughters of
Margaret Bostock so I assume they did not survive to adulthood.
Cheers
Rosie
On Jun 13, 10:26 pm, jonathan kirton <jonathankir...@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
Bess of Hardwick : first lady of Chatsworth (Abacus, 2005) gives the
following information about the 16 children of William Cavendish:
William Cavendish c.1505-1557
+ (1.) 1532 Margaret, dau. Edmund Bostock, d. 1540
2. Elizabeth b. 1534 d. bef 1540.
2. Katherine b. 1535, d. aft 1547
2. John d. inf
2. Mary d. aft 1547
2. Ann b. 1540. Married Sir Henry Boynton in 1561
+ (2.) 1542 Elizabeth, dau. Thomas Parker of Postingford, Suffolk, d.
1546 in childbirth
2. Susan b. Oct 1544, d. inf
2. John b. 1545 d. inf
2. female b. 1546, stillborn
+ (3) Elizabeth, dau.John Hardwick, 1527-1608
2. Frances b.1548 d. aft 1608, had issue
+ Sir Henry Pierrepoint
2. Temperance b.1549 d. 1549
2. Henry 1550-1616 s.p.l.
+ Grace Talbot
2.William Ist Earl of Devonshire 1551-1625, had issue
+ Anne Keighly d. 1598
+ Elizabeth Wortley
2.Charles 1553-1617, had issue
+ Margaret Kitson d. 1582
+Catherine Ogle
2. Elizabeth 1555-1582, had issue
+ Charles Stuart, 5th earl Lennox 1555-1576
2.Mary 1556-1632, had issue
+ Gilbert Talbot, 7th Earl Shrewsbury (eldest son of Bess's 4th
husband, George Talbot)
2. Lucres 1557-1557
Ann Cavendish had 700 pounds on her marriage with Sir Henry Baynton.
The marriage was arranged through Bess's second husband, Sir William
St Loe, whose first wife was Jane Baynton 1523-1549 (dau. of Sir
Edward Baynton), and his two surviving daughters by her were brought
up in the Baynton household after their mother's death.
There is no mention of any marriage for the other daughters of
Margaret Bostock so I assume they did not survive to adulthood.
Cheers
Rosie
On Jun 13, 10:26 pm, jonathan kirton <jonathankir...@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
Can anybody provide any information on the names of the children of
William Cavendish ?
From: "In the Shadow of the Throne", by Ruth Norrington (2002) pages
19, 20, etc.:-
In 1530, as plain William Cavendish, he had visited the monasteries
to arrange the surrender of
their properties. He acquired at that time the Abbey of Sheen.
His first wife was Margaret Bostock, who gave him two daughters, but
she then died in 1540.
By 1541 Cavendish was serving as Auditor of the Court of
Augmentations, and received grants
of land in Hertfordshire.
In 1542 he was re-married to Elizabeth Parker, but they had no
children before she also died.
By 1546 he was "Treasurer of the King's Chamber", and had been
knighted, and sworn in as a
member of the Privy Council. King Henry VIII was devoted to him,
and after Henry's death, his
son, Edward VI, continued to favour Cavendish, and increased his
landed property.
In that same year he met his third wife, a widow, formerly Bess
Hardwick, of Hardwick Hall,
Derbyshire, who was then a lady-in-waiting to Frances Grey,
Marchioness of Dorset, Duchess
of Suffolk, (the mother of Lady Jane Grey); he married Bess in 1549.
Together they had a total
of eight children, of which six survived to exploit their
opportunities as step-children of Bess's
fourth husband, the Earl of Shrewsbury.
After his marriage to Bess, Cavendish sold all his properties in the
south and purchased the
Manor of Chatsworth in Derbyshire from his wife's family, while
maintaining a London house
in Chelsea.
He served as the Queen's Treasurer to Queen Mary after 1553, but died
in London on 25 Oct.,
1557.
His two daughters by his first marriage were deprived of their
inheritance, thanks to the efforts
of Bess, their more,than somewhat avaricious step-mother.
Can anybody tell me the names of his first two daughters, and what
subsequently became of
them ? I believe one of them was named Frances Cavendish, but it
seems that one of Sir
Williams' daughters with Bess was also named Frances, so there may
be some confusion ?
My thanks in advance to anybody who can help me.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Kirton, Canada
-
Rosie Bevan
Re: Sir William Cavendish,(died 1557)
Further to the above, Katherine Cavendish married "Thomas Broke, a son
of Lord Cobham" (Lovell, Appendix 6), presumably a younger son of
George Brooke, Lord Cobham who had 10 sons and 4 daughters (CP III, p.
348).
Mary Cavendish b. c. 1539 was still living in 1557 but died soon
after.
Rosie
On Jun 14, 10:05 am, Rosie Bevan <rbe...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
of Lord Cobham" (Lovell, Appendix 6), presumably a younger son of
George Brooke, Lord Cobham who had 10 sons and 4 daughters (CP III, p.
348).
Mary Cavendish b. c. 1539 was still living in 1557 but died soon
after.
Rosie
On Jun 14, 10:05 am, Rosie Bevan <rbe...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
The very readable and sympathetic biography of Bess, by Mary S Lovell,
Bess of Hardwick : first lady of Chatsworth (Abacus, 2005) gives the
following information about the 16 children of William Cavendish:
William Cavendish c.1505-1557
+ (1.) 1532 Margaret, dau. Edmund Bostock, d. 1540
2. Elizabeth b. 1534 d. bef 1540.
2. Katherine b. 1535, d. aft 1547
2. John d. inf
2. Mary d. aft 1547
2. Ann b. 1540. Married Sir Henry Boynton in 1561
+ (2.) 1542 Elizabeth, dau. Thomas Parker of Postingford, Suffolk, d.
1546 in childbirth
2. Susan b. Oct 1544, d. inf
2. John b. 1545 d. inf
2. female b. 1546, stillborn
+ (3) Elizabeth, dau.John Hardwick, 1527-1608
2. Frances b.1548 d. aft 1608, had issue
+ Sir Henry Pierrepoint
2. Temperance b.1549 d. 1549
2. Henry 1550-1616 s.p.l.
+ Grace Talbot
2.William Ist Earl of Devonshire 1551-1625, had issue
+ Anne Keighly d. 1598
+ Elizabeth Wortley
2.Charles 1553-1617, had issue
+ Margaret Kitson d. 1582
+Catherine Ogle
2. Elizabeth 1555-1582, had issue
+ Charles Stuart, 5th earl Lennox 1555-1576
2.Mary 1556-1632, had issue
+ Gilbert Talbot, 7th Earl Shrewsbury (eldest son of Bess's 4th
husband, George Talbot)
2. Lucres 1557-1557
Ann Cavendish had 700 pounds on her marriage with Sir Henry Baynton.
The marriage was arranged through Bess's second husband, Sir William
St Loe, whose first wife was Jane Baynton 1523-1549 (dau. of Sir
Edward Baynton), and his two surviving daughters by her were brought
up in the Baynton household after their mother's death.
There is no mention of any marriage for the other daughters of
Margaret Bostock so I assume they did not survive to adulthood.
Cheers
Rosie
On Jun 13, 10:26 pm, jonathan kirton <jonathankir...@sympatico.ca
wrote:
Can anybody provide any information on the names of the children of
William Cavendish ?
From: "In the Shadow of the Throne", by Ruth Norrington (2002) pages
19, 20, etc.:-
In 1530, as plain William Cavendish, he had visited the monasteries
to arrange the surrender of
their properties. He acquired at that time the Abbey of Sheen.
His first wife was Margaret Bostock, who gave him two daughters, but
she then died in 1540.
By 1541 Cavendish was serving as Auditor of the Court of
Augmentations, and received grants
of land in Hertfordshire.
In 1542 he was re-married to Elizabeth Parker, but they had no
children before she also died.
By 1546 he was "Treasurer of the King's Chamber", and had been
knighted, and sworn in as a
member of the Privy Council. King Henry VIII was devoted to him,
and after Henry's death, his
son, Edward VI, continued to favour Cavendish, and increased his
landed property.
In that same year he met his third wife, a widow, formerly Bess
Hardwick, of Hardwick Hall,
Derbyshire, who was then a lady-in-waiting to Frances Grey,
Marchioness of Dorset, Duchess
of Suffolk, (the mother of Lady Jane Grey); he married Bess in 1549.
Together they had a total
of eight children, of which six survived to exploit their
opportunities as step-children of Bess's
fourth husband, the Earl of Shrewsbury.
After his marriage to Bess, Cavendish sold all his properties in the
south and purchased the
Manor of Chatsworth in Derbyshire from his wife's family, while
maintaining a London house
in Chelsea.
He served as the Queen's Treasurer to Queen Mary after 1553, but died
in London on 25 Oct.,
1557.
His two daughters by his first marriage were deprived of their
inheritance, thanks to the efforts
of Bess, their more,than somewhat avaricious step-mother.
Can anybody tell me the names of his first two daughters, and what
subsequently became of
them ? I believe one of them was named Frances Cavendish, but it
seems that one of Sir
Williams' daughters with Bess was also named Frances, so there may
be some confusion ?
My thanks in advance to anybody who can help me.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Kirton, Canada- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
-
jonathan kirton
Re: Sir William Cavendish,(died 1557)
Dear Group,
My very sincere thanks to all who have responded to my enquiry about
the daughters
of Sir William Cavendish's first marriage to Margaret Bostock, and
especially to Rosie
Bevan.
My question had come from a remark by the same author, Ruth
Norrington, on p. 56
of her book: "In the Shadow of the Throne-The Lady Arbella
Stuart" (Peter Owen,2002):
Discussing possible negotiations between Lady Arbella and Lord Edward
Seymour,
2nd. Earl of Hertford, to arrange a marriage between Lady Arbella and
Lord Edward's
grandson, William Seymour (1588-1660)(later 3rd. Earl and 1st.
Marquis of Hertford,
and eventually 2nd. Duke of Somerset), she wrote:-
"There was a rumour that Hertford had sent his lawyer, Kirton - whose
son had married
Bess's stepdaughter (a daughter of Sir William Cavendish by a
previous marriage) - to
Wales to see Owen Tydder, whose son was Arbella's page, about a
possible marriage
between her and Hertford's grandson."
(this marriage did of course eventually take place, with dire
consequences for Arbella)
James Kirton (1559 - 1620), a son of Edward Kirton, armiger, of
London and Almesford,
Somerset, was a servant, as his lawyer to Lord Hertford from the time
of his becoming a
solicitor of the Temple in 1592, and was his general man of business
from 1599 - 1608,
and was steward to the Earl during his embassy to Brussels in 1605.
He continued to
serve the Earl to a lesser extent until 1615. James was MP for
Great Bedwyn in 1593,
and for Ludgershall in 1601, 1604 & 1614. He was knighted at
Windsor by James I in
1618. Sir James died and was buried at Almesford in 1620. (Ref.:
"The History of Parl-
iament" The House of Commons 1558 - 1603 by P. W. Hasler, pgs. 402-3)
All the records show that Sir James Kirton and his wife had but one
son, Maurice
Kirton, baptized at Pilton, Somerset on 11 Sept., 1608, who was much
too young to
have been the husband of one of Sir William Cavendish's daughters by
his first wife,
who were born circa 1539 (furthermore Maurice Kirton had evidently
died before 1618,
when he would have been aged about 10, because he is not mentioned in
his father,
Sir James Kirton's very comprehensive will.)
SO, if Ruth Norrington's statement has any element of truth, and she
does seem to be a
reliable historical reporter, which Kirton married which one of Sir
William Cavendish's
daughters ???
Presumably the Kirton husband involved was one of Sir James' numerous
brothers, or
cousins, who would, presumably, have been of the right generation to
marry, possibly,
the only Cavendish daughter who could be a likely candidate, namely
Mary, who must
have been born before 1540, when her mother died, and is stated to
have died after
1547.
Can anybody throw any additional light on this subject ?
Jonathan Kirton
My very sincere thanks to all who have responded to my enquiry about
the daughters
of Sir William Cavendish's first marriage to Margaret Bostock, and
especially to Rosie
Bevan.
My question had come from a remark by the same author, Ruth
Norrington, on p. 56
of her book: "In the Shadow of the Throne-The Lady Arbella
Stuart" (Peter Owen,2002):
Discussing possible negotiations between Lady Arbella and Lord Edward
Seymour,
2nd. Earl of Hertford, to arrange a marriage between Lady Arbella and
Lord Edward's
grandson, William Seymour (1588-1660)(later 3rd. Earl and 1st.
Marquis of Hertford,
and eventually 2nd. Duke of Somerset), she wrote:-
"There was a rumour that Hertford had sent his lawyer, Kirton - whose
son had married
Bess's stepdaughter (a daughter of Sir William Cavendish by a
previous marriage) - to
Wales to see Owen Tydder, whose son was Arbella's page, about a
possible marriage
between her and Hertford's grandson."
(this marriage did of course eventually take place, with dire
consequences for Arbella)
James Kirton (1559 - 1620), a son of Edward Kirton, armiger, of
London and Almesford,
Somerset, was a servant, as his lawyer to Lord Hertford from the time
of his becoming a
solicitor of the Temple in 1592, and was his general man of business
from 1599 - 1608,
and was steward to the Earl during his embassy to Brussels in 1605.
He continued to
serve the Earl to a lesser extent until 1615. James was MP for
Great Bedwyn in 1593,
and for Ludgershall in 1601, 1604 & 1614. He was knighted at
Windsor by James I in
1618. Sir James died and was buried at Almesford in 1620. (Ref.:
"The History of Parl-
iament" The House of Commons 1558 - 1603 by P. W. Hasler, pgs. 402-3)
All the records show that Sir James Kirton and his wife had but one
son, Maurice
Kirton, baptized at Pilton, Somerset on 11 Sept., 1608, who was much
too young to
have been the husband of one of Sir William Cavendish's daughters by
his first wife,
who were born circa 1539 (furthermore Maurice Kirton had evidently
died before 1618,
when he would have been aged about 10, because he is not mentioned in
his father,
Sir James Kirton's very comprehensive will.)
SO, if Ruth Norrington's statement has any element of truth, and she
does seem to be a
reliable historical reporter, which Kirton married which one of Sir
William Cavendish's
daughters ???
Presumably the Kirton husband involved was one of Sir James' numerous
brothers, or
cousins, who would, presumably, have been of the right generation to
marry, possibly,
the only Cavendish daughter who could be a likely candidate, namely
Mary, who must
have been born before 1540, when her mother died, and is stated to
have died after
1547.
Can anybody throw any additional light on this subject ?
Jonathan Kirton
-
Gjest
Re: Sir William Cavendish,(died 1557)
On 14 Jun., 12:36, jonathan kirton <jonathankir...@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
Some of James Kirton's correspondence may be found amongst the Seymour
Papers at Longleat. These name his mother as Lettice, his brothers
William and Josias, "Francis Kirton his son" (sic), and Sir John
Rodney "his father-in-law". (Seymour Papers, Box V, folios 197-304).
MA-R
wrote:
Dear Group,
My very sincere thanks to all who have responded to my enquiry about
the daughters
of Sir William Cavendish's first marriage to Margaret Bostock, and
especially to Rosie
Bevan.
My question had come from a remark by the same author, Ruth
Norrington, on p. 56
of her book: "In the Shadow of the Throne-The Lady Arbella
Stuart" (Peter Owen,2002):
Discussing possible negotiations between Lady Arbella and Lord Edward
Seymour,
2nd. Earl of Hertford, to arrange a marriage between Lady Arbella and
Lord Edward's
grandson, William Seymour (1588-1660)(later 3rd. Earl and 1st.
Marquis of Hertford,
and eventually 2nd. Duke of Somerset), she wrote:-
"There was a rumour that Hertford had sent his lawyer, Kirton - whose
son had married
Bess's stepdaughter (a daughter of Sir William Cavendish by a
previous marriage) - to
Wales to see Owen Tydder, whose son was Arbella's page, about a
possible marriage
between her and Hertford's grandson."
(this marriage did of course eventually take place, with dire
consequences for Arbella)
James Kirton (1559 - 1620), a son of Edward Kirton, armiger, of
London and Almesford,
Somerset, was a servant, as his lawyer to Lord Hertford from the time
of his becoming a
solicitor of the Temple in 1592, and was his general man of business
from 1599 - 1608,
and was steward to the Earl during his embassy to Brussels in 1605.
He continued to
serve the Earl to a lesser extent until 1615. James was MP for
Great Bedwyn in 1593,
and for Ludgershall in 1601, 1604 & 1614. He was knighted at
Windsor by James I in
1618. Sir James died and was buried at Almesford in 1620. (Ref.:
"The History of Parl-
iament" The House of Commons 1558 - 1603 by P. W. Hasler, pgs. 402-3)
All the records show that Sir James Kirton and his wife had but one
son, Maurice
Kirton, baptized at Pilton, Somerset on 11 Sept., 1608, who was much
too young to
have been the husband of one of Sir William Cavendish's daughters by
his first wife,
who were born circa 1539 (furthermore Maurice Kirton had evidently
died before 1618,
when he would have been aged about 10, because he is not mentioned in
his father,
Sir James Kirton's very comprehensive will.)
SO, if Ruth Norrington's statement has any element of truth, and she
does seem to be a
reliable historical reporter, which Kirton married which one of Sir
William Cavendish's
daughters ???
Presumably the Kirton husband involved was one of Sir James' numerous
brothers, or
cousins, who would, presumably, have been of the right generation to
marry, possibly,
the only Cavendish daughter who could be a likely candidate, namely
Mary, who must
have been born before 1540, when her mother died, and is stated to
have died after
1547.
Can anybody throw any additional light on this subject ?
Some of James Kirton's correspondence may be found amongst the Seymour
Papers at Longleat. These name his mother as Lettice, his brothers
William and Josias, "Francis Kirton his son" (sic), and Sir John
Rodney "his father-in-law". (Seymour Papers, Box V, folios 197-304).
MA-R
-
Matthew Connolly
Re: Sir William Cavendish,(died 1557)
On Jun 14, 7:49 pm, m...@btinternet.com wrote:
The abstract of Sir James Kirton's will is available at Google Books-
http://books.google.com/books?id=u7AEAA ... %22&pgis=1
(viewable via proxy server), it mentions a fair number of family and
other connections. Brother Josias had a son Francis, so maybe that is
the Seymour Papers reference? Sir James seems to have married a
Morley.
Perhaps Jonathan will be able to answer a tangential question for me-
what was the name of the wife of Daniel Kirton, James's elder brother?
I know she married Sir Robert Vernon after Daniel's death, and have
her tentatively as the Dame Ann Vernon who d. 1st March 1627, MI
Camberwell (see
http://books.google.com/books?id=4T7EoV ... %22&pgis=1
also viewable via proxy). Her arms are elsewhere given as Sable, a
fess and two chevronels ermine between three leopards' heads or-
http://books.google.com/books?id=PicAAA ... vronels%22
(doesn't need a proxy). The latter goes on, "yet her maiden name has
not been discovered"...
On 14 Jun., 12:36, jonathan kirton <jonathankir...@sympatico.ca
wrote:
Dear Group,
My very sincere thanks to all who have responded to my enquiry about
the daughters
of Sir William Cavendish's first marriage to Margaret Bostock, and
especially to Rosie
Bevan.
My question had come from a remark by the same author, Ruth
Norrington, on p. 56
of her book: "In the Shadow of the Throne-The Lady Arbella
Stuart" (Peter Owen,2002):
Discussing possible negotiations between Lady Arbella and Lord Edward
Seymour,
2nd. Earl of Hertford, to arrange a marriage between Lady Arbella and
Lord Edward's
grandson, William Seymour (1588-1660)(later 3rd. Earl and 1st.
Marquis of Hertford,
and eventually 2nd. Duke of Somerset), she wrote:-
"There was a rumour that Hertford had sent his lawyer, Kirton - whose
son had married
Bess's stepdaughter (a daughter of Sir William Cavendish by a
previous marriage) - to
Wales to see Owen Tydder, whose son was Arbella's page, about a
possible marriage
between her and Hertford's grandson."
(this marriage did of course eventually take place, with dire
consequences for Arbella)
James Kirton (1559 - 1620), a son of Edward Kirton, armiger, of
London and Almesford,
Somerset, was a servant, as his lawyer to Lord Hertford from the time
of his becoming a
solicitor of the Temple in 1592, and was his general man of business
from 1599 - 1608,
and was steward to the Earl during his embassy to Brussels in 1605.
He continued to
serve the Earl to a lesser extent until 1615. James was MP for
Great Bedwyn in 1593,
and for Ludgershall in 1601, 1604 & 1614. He was knighted at
Windsor by James I in
1618. Sir James died and was buried at Almesford in 1620. (Ref.:
"The History of Parl-
iament" The House of Commons 1558 - 1603 by P. W. Hasler, pgs. 402-3)
All the records show that Sir James Kirton and his wife had but one
son, Maurice
Kirton, baptized at Pilton, Somerset on 11 Sept., 1608, who was much
too young to
have been the husband of one of Sir William Cavendish's daughters by
his first wife,
who were born circa 1539 (furthermore Maurice Kirton had evidently
died before 1618,
when he would have been aged about 10, because he is not mentioned in
his father,
Sir James Kirton's very comprehensive will.)
SO, if Ruth Norrington's statement has any element of truth, and she
does seem to be a
reliable historical reporter, which Kirton married which one of Sir
William Cavendish's
daughters ???
Presumably the Kirton husband involved was one of Sir James' numerous
brothers, or
cousins, who would, presumably, have been of the right generation to
marry, possibly,
the only Cavendish daughter who could be a likely candidate, namely
Mary, who must
have been born before 1540, when her mother died, and is stated to
have died after
1547.
Can anybody throw any additional light on this subject ?
Some of James Kirton's correspondence may be found amongst the Seymour
Papers at Longleat. These name his mother as Lettice, his brothers
William and Josias, "Francis Kirton his son" (sic), and Sir John
Rodney "his father-in-law". (Seymour Papers, Box V, folios 197-304).
MA-R- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The abstract of Sir James Kirton's will is available at Google Books-
http://books.google.com/books?id=u7AEAA ... %22&pgis=1
(viewable via proxy server), it mentions a fair number of family and
other connections. Brother Josias had a son Francis, so maybe that is
the Seymour Papers reference? Sir James seems to have married a
Morley.
Perhaps Jonathan will be able to answer a tangential question for me-
what was the name of the wife of Daniel Kirton, James's elder brother?
I know she married Sir Robert Vernon after Daniel's death, and have
her tentatively as the Dame Ann Vernon who d. 1st March 1627, MI
Camberwell (see
http://books.google.com/books?id=4T7EoV ... %22&pgis=1
also viewable via proxy). Her arms are elsewhere given as Sable, a
fess and two chevronels ermine between three leopards' heads or-
http://books.google.com/books?id=PicAAA ... vronels%22
(doesn't need a proxy). The latter goes on, "yet her maiden name has
not been discovered"...