Perhaps this question has arisen before?
Wikipedia [sub Maria de Padilla] claims Maria de Padilla - mistress and
wife of Pedro the Cruel, King of Castile, and ancestress to a number of
us - was of Jewish ancestry.
"María de Padilla (1334 - August 1361) was the mistress of Peter I,
King of Castile, whom she later married in 1353. She was a Castilian
noblewoman of converso Jewish descent." [citing Peggy K. Liss, "Isabel
the Queen," New York: Oxford University Press, 1992, p. 165; James
Reston, Jr. "Dogs of God," New York: Doubleday, 2005, p. 18.]
Does anyone know more on this?
Thanks.
Tony Hoskins
Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404
707/545-0831, ext. 562
Maria de Padilla: of Jewish descent?
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
taf
Re: Maria de Padilla: of Jewish descent?
On Jun 8, 4:02 pm, "Tony Hoskins" <hosk...@sonoma.lib.ca.us> wrote:
(I see the same information has been placed on a page called "list of
Sephardic Jews", and on a page called Constance of Castile
(1354-1394). This is one of the things most annoying about
Wikipedia. Someone gets it in their head to add an interesting
tidbit, they feel the need to add it not only to the page for an
individual, but also the page for their husband, each of their
children, and any grandchildren that have pages. And of course these
then all get copied in their entirety to Answers.com and a lot more
places.)
The issue was raised back in '96 (search using the terms: maria
padilla jewish and pick the Constance & Isabel thread), but no one
gave a more specific line than "Constance is the illegitimate daughter
of Pedro the Cruel of Castille and Maria de Padilla. I couldn't find
my notes on Maria, but her Jewish line is reasonably well documented
along the north coast of Africa."
Looking around, one could at least post a contradictory reference -
http://www.elfinspell.com/PeterTitleStyle.html
specifically http://www.elfinspell.com/PeterCh9Style.html
which expresses the belief that it is nonsense, while Turton gives the
ancestry of her sister without mention. time permitting, I will
consult the brothers Garcia Caraffa, which is not all that accurate,
but at least is likely to show this supposed jewish connection.
taf
Perhaps this question has arisen before?
Wikipedia [sub Maria de Padilla] claims Maria de Padilla - mistress and
wife of Pedro the Cruel, King of Castile, and ancestress to a number of
us - was of Jewish ancestry.
"María de Padilla (1334 - August 1361) was the mistress of Peter I,
King of Castile, whom she later married in 1353. She was a Castilian
noblewoman of converso Jewish descent." [citing Peggy K. Liss, "Isabel
the Queen," New York: Oxford University Press, 1992, p. 165; James
Reston, Jr. "Dogs of God," New York: Doubleday, 2005, p. 18.]
Does anyone know more on this?
(I see the same information has been placed on a page called "list of
Sephardic Jews", and on a page called Constance of Castile
(1354-1394). This is one of the things most annoying about
Wikipedia. Someone gets it in their head to add an interesting
tidbit, they feel the need to add it not only to the page for an
individual, but also the page for their husband, each of their
children, and any grandchildren that have pages. And of course these
then all get copied in their entirety to Answers.com and a lot more
places.)
The issue was raised back in '96 (search using the terms: maria
padilla jewish and pick the Constance & Isabel thread), but no one
gave a more specific line than "Constance is the illegitimate daughter
of Pedro the Cruel of Castille and Maria de Padilla. I couldn't find
my notes on Maria, but her Jewish line is reasonably well documented
along the north coast of Africa."
Looking around, one could at least post a contradictory reference -
http://www.elfinspell.com/PeterTitleStyle.html
specifically http://www.elfinspell.com/PeterCh9Style.html
which expresses the belief that it is nonsense, while Turton gives the
ancestry of her sister without mention. time permitting, I will
consult the brothers Garcia Caraffa, which is not all that accurate,
but at least is likely to show this supposed jewish connection.
taf
-
Peter Stewart
Re: Maria de Padilla: of Jewish descent?
On Jun 10, 12:33 pm, taf <farme...@interfold.com> wrote:
My recollection of this is that "nonsense" describes it accurately - I
think (but can't vouch for it from memory) that this idea first
surfaced a few centuries after Maria's time in a play, maybe by Lopé
de Vega.
Anyway, it is most unlikely that she had Jewish ancestry and that this
was known to her contemporaries: her brother Diego Garcia de Padilla
was master of the order of Calatrava, that would hardly be plausible
in such circumstances. He was also grand chamberlain to Pedro I, and a
supporter of the king's Jewish treasurer Simuel Levi - one of the
motives for Pedro's murder was the violent anti-Semitism of his
bastard half-brother Enrique of Trastámara, who succeeded as king.
(Partly to justify these events, rumour was put about that Pedro had
been born to a Jewish concubine and substituted for a dead baby
prince.) The Padilla family were minor nobles, not new on the scene or
reputed to have Jewish antecedents. Maria's mother was Maria Gomez de
Henestrosa, also from a noble Castilian family without recorded Jewish
connections.
Peter Stewart
On Jun 8, 4:02 pm, "Tony Hoskins" <hosk...@sonoma.lib.ca.us> wrote:
Perhaps this question has arisen before?
Wikipedia [sub Maria de Padilla] claims Maria de Padilla - mistress and
wife of Pedro the Cruel, King of Castile, and ancestress to a number of
us - was of Jewish ancestry.
"María de Padilla (1334 - August 1361) was the mistress of Peter I,
King of Castile, whom she later married in 1353. She was a Castilian
noblewoman of converso Jewish descent." [citing Peggy K. Liss, "Isabel
the Queen," New York: Oxford University Press, 1992, p. 165; James
Reston, Jr. "Dogs of God," New York: Doubleday, 2005, p. 18.]
Does anyone know more on this?
(I see the same information has been placed on a page called "list of
Sephardic Jews", and on a page called Constance of Castile
(1354-1394). This is one of the things most annoying about
Wikipedia. Someone gets it in their head to add an interesting
tidbit, they feel the need to add it not only to the page for an
individual, but also the page for their husband, each of their
children, and any grandchildren that have pages. And of course these
then all get copied in their entirety to Answers.com and a lot more
places.)
The issue was raised back in '96 (search using the terms: maria
padilla jewish and pick the Constance & Isabel thread), but no one
gave a more specific line than "Constance is the illegitimate daughter
of Pedro the Cruel of Castille and Maria de Padilla. I couldn't find
my notes on Maria, but her Jewish line is reasonably well documented
along the north coast of Africa."
Looking around, one could at least post a contradictory reference -
http://www.elfinspell.com/PeterTitleStyle.html
specificallyhttp://www.elfinspell.com/P ... Style.html
which expresses the belief that it is nonsense, while Turton gives the
ancestry of her sister without mention. time permitting, I will
consult the brothers Garcia Caraffa, which is not all that accurate,
but at least is likely to show this supposed jewish connection.
My recollection of this is that "nonsense" describes it accurately - I
think (but can't vouch for it from memory) that this idea first
surfaced a few centuries after Maria's time in a play, maybe by Lopé
de Vega.
Anyway, it is most unlikely that she had Jewish ancestry and that this
was known to her contemporaries: her brother Diego Garcia de Padilla
was master of the order of Calatrava, that would hardly be plausible
in such circumstances. He was also grand chamberlain to Pedro I, and a
supporter of the king's Jewish treasurer Simuel Levi - one of the
motives for Pedro's murder was the violent anti-Semitism of his
bastard half-brother Enrique of Trastámara, who succeeded as king.
(Partly to justify these events, rumour was put about that Pedro had
been born to a Jewish concubine and substituted for a dead baby
prince.) The Padilla family were minor nobles, not new on the scene or
reputed to have Jewish antecedents. Maria's mother was Maria Gomez de
Henestrosa, also from a noble Castilian family without recorded Jewish
connections.
Peter Stewart
-
taf
Re: Maria de Padilla: of Jewish descent?
On Jun 9, 8:13 pm, Peter Stewart <p_m_stew...@msn.com> wrote:
I checked - no joy. They only mention Maria's father as one of the
early Padillas, without placing them into a genealogical context. I
did not find the mother at all (under either Hinestrosa or Finestrosa
GC gives another brother (? Juan Garcia - I should have writ it down)
Master of another order.
This is basically definitive - at this time and place, a master of
such an order would have been expected (in other words, required) to
be of noble lineage on all sides. There could be no memory of Jewish
ancestry in the pedigree or this would never have flown (if not
because they were part Jew, then because that Jew was not a nobleman)
taf
On Jun 10, 12:33 pm, taf <farme...@interfold.com> wrote:
ancestry of her sister without mention. time permitting, I will
consult the brothers Garcia Caraffa, which is not all that accurate,
but at least is likely to show this supposed jewish connection.
I checked - no joy. They only mention Maria's father as one of the
early Padillas, without placing them into a genealogical context. I
did not find the mother at all (under either Hinestrosa or Finestrosa
My recollection of this is that "nonsense" describes it accurately - I
think (but can't vouch for it from memory) that this idea first
surfaced a few centuries after Maria's time in a play, maybe by Lopé
de Vega.
Anyway, it is most unlikely that she had Jewish ancestry and that this
was known to her contemporaries: her brother Diego Garcia de Padilla
was master of the order of Calatrava, that would hardly be plausible
in such circumstances.
GC gives another brother (? Juan Garcia - I should have writ it down)
Master of another order.
This is basically definitive - at this time and place, a master of
such an order would have been expected (in other words, required) to
be of noble lineage on all sides. There could be no memory of Jewish
ancestry in the pedigree or this would never have flown (if not
because they were part Jew, then because that Jew was not a nobleman)
taf
-
taf
Re: Maria de Padilla: of Jewish descent?
On Jun 11, 8:49 am, taf <farme...@interfold.com> wrote:
OK, it was Juan de Padilla, and he was named Master of the Order of
Santiago by Pedro, but the good brothers wouldn't have him (apparently
over politics, not blood), fought him at Ucles and killed him.
taf
On Jun 9, 8:13 pm, Peter Stewart <p_m_stew...@msn.com> wrote:
Anyway, it is most unlikely that she had Jewish ancestry and that this
was known to her contemporaries: her brother Diego Garcia de Padilla
was master of the order of Calatrava, that would hardly be plausible
in such circumstances.
GC gives another brother (? Juan Garcia - I should have writ it down)
Master of another order.
OK, it was Juan de Padilla, and he was named Master of the Order of
Santiago by Pedro, but the good brothers wouldn't have him (apparently
over politics, not blood), fought him at Ucles and killed him.
taf
-
taf
Re: Maria de Padilla: of Jewish descent?
On Jun 11, 8:49 am, taf <farme...@interfold.com> wrote:
OK, it was Juan de Padilla, and he was named Master of the Order of
Santiago by Pedro, but the good brothers wouldn't have him (apparently
over politics, not blood), fought him at Ucles and killed him.
taf
On Jun 9, 8:13 pm, Peter Stewart <p_m_stew...@msn.com> wrote:
Anyway, it is most unlikely that she had Jewish ancestry and that this
was known to her contemporaries: her brother Diego Garcia de Padilla
was master of the order of Calatrava, that would hardly be plausible
in such circumstances.
GC gives another brother (? Juan Garcia - I should have writ it down)
Master of another order.
OK, it was Juan de Padilla, and he was named Master of the Order of
Santiago by Pedro, but the good brothers wouldn't have him (apparently
over politics, not blood), fought him at Ucles and killed him.
taf
-
taf
Re: Maria de Padilla: of Jewish descent?
On Jun 11, 8:49 am, taf <farme...@interfold.com> wrote:
OK, it was Juan de Padilla, and he was named Master of the Order of
Santiago by Pedro, but the good brothers wouldn't have him (apparently
over politics, not blood), fought him at Ucles and killed him.
taf
On Jun 9, 8:13 pm, Peter Stewart <p_m_stew...@msn.com> wrote:
Anyway, it is most unlikely that she had Jewish ancestry and that this
was known to her contemporaries: her brother Diego Garcia de Padilla
was master of the order of Calatrava, that would hardly be plausible
in such circumstances.
GC gives another brother (? Juan Garcia - I should have writ it down)
Master of another order.
OK, it was Juan de Padilla, and he was named Master of the Order of
Santiago by Pedro, but the good brothers wouldn't have him (apparently
over politics, not blood), fought him at Ucles and killed him.
taf