RPA addition: Margery, wife of William Moleyns (d 1425)

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RPA addition: Margery, wife of William Moleyns (d 1425)

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 mai 2007 22:21:24

According to most sources, the origins and maiden surname of Margery,
wife of William Moleyns (1378-1425) is unknown.

However, in the ODNB article on John Mowbray, 1st Duke of Norfolk, she
is called Margery Whalesborough.

My initial view was to reject this, since Margery's son, the younger
William Moleyns, is known to have married (as his second wife) the
daughter of John Whalesborough.

Nevertheless, Margery's monumental brass at Stoke Poges supports the
identification per ODNB: her arms, impaled with those of her husband,
indeed appear to be those of Whalesborough: Argent (or Or), three
bendlets Gules, a border Sable bezanty.

This is an addition to RPA, p 507, where she is called "Margery ____".

(It would also, I think, be a correction to CP sub Moleyns, although I
haven't yet checked this).

Given her son's apparent marriage to a Whalesborough cousin, either
some sort of Dispensation would have been required, or Margery was far
enough removed genealogically from John Whalesborough for this not to
have been an issue.

My thanks to "DB" for locating the relevant Whalesborough entries in
Papworth and Burke's.

Michael Andrews-Reading

Gjest

Re: RPA addition: Margery, wife of William Moleyns (d 1425)

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 mai 2007 09:10:00

On 27 Mai, 22:21, m...@btinternet.com wrote:
According to most sources, the origins and maiden surname of Margery,
wife of William Moleyns (1378-1425) is unknown.

However, in the ODNB article on John Mowbray, 1st Duke of Norfolk, she
is called Margery Whalesborough.

My initial view was to reject this, since Margery's son, the younger
William Moleyns, is known to have married (as his second wife) the
daughter of John Whalesborough.

Nevertheless, Margery's monumental brass at Stoke Poges supports the
identification per ODNB: her arms, impaled with those of her husband,
indeed appear to be those of Whalesborough: Argent (or Or), three
bendlets Gules, a border Sable bezanty.

This is an addition to RPA, p 507, where she is called "Margery ____".

(It would also, I think, be a correction to CP sub Moleyns, although I
haven't yet checked this).

Given her son's apparent marriage to a Whalesborough cousin, either
some sort of Dispensation would have been required, or Margery was far
enough removed genealogically from John Whalesborough for this not to
have been an issue.

The thought occurred to me that Margery may have been a second wife to
the elder William Moleyns, but the following item from the Jervoise
family papers at the Hampshire Record office seems to confirm that she
was the mother of the younger William:

Inspeximus by William Molyns, Knight, (son and heir of Lord William
Molyns Knight deceased) before Lady Margery Molyns his mother of
certain indentures between John Damis (?) esheator for Oxfordshire and
Berkshire, and Lady Margery concerning her dowry in her son's estate

(dated 6 March 1428; ref 44M69/B3)

Presumably this is confirmed by her 1439 IPM, a copy of which is also
at Winchester (44M69/F1/4/16).

MA-R

Gjest

Re: RPA addition: Margery, wife of William Moleyns (d 1425)

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 mai 2007 11:26:06

On 27 Mai, 22:21, m...@btinternet.com wrote:
According to most sources, the origins and maiden surname of Margery,
wife of William Moleyns (1378-1425) is unknown.

However, in the ODNB article on John Mowbray, 1st Duke of Norfolk, she
is called Margery Whalesborough.

My initial view was to reject this, since Margery's son, the younger
William Moleyns, is known to have married (as his second wife) the
daughter of John Whalesborough.

Nevertheless, Margery's monumental brass at Stoke Poges supports the
identification per ODNB: her arms, impaled with those of her husband,
indeed appear to be those of Whalesborough: Argent (or Or), three
bendlets Gules, a border Sable bezanty.

This is an addition to RPA, p *504*, where she is called "Margery ____".

(It would also, I think, be a correction to CP sub Moleyns, although I
haven't yet checked this).

Rosie Bevan has very generously sent me a copy of the relevant entry
in CP, which notes that Margery was probably a Whalesborough, based on
the arms in the Stoke Poges brass. This remains merely an RPA
suppression [much of the remainder of the Moleyns text on p 504 is
lifted word for word from CP].

Many thanks for your kind assistance, Rosie.

MA-R

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