Tomb of Robert de Vere, 3rd Earl of Oxford, d 1221

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Tomb of Robert de Vere, 3rd Earl of Oxford, d 1221

Legg inn av Gjest » 07 mai 2007 18:51:57

When Robert, Earl of Oxford died, he was not buried at Earl's Colne
with the rest of his family, but at Hatfield Priory. An effigy was
placed on his tomb, probably some fifty years after his death. After
the Dissolution, this effigy was removed, and spent some years
outside, subject to the weather, before it was replaced in the chancel
of the church at Hatfield Broad Oak (Essex).

I visited this afternoon, and took some photos of the effigy, which I
am happy to pass on to anyone who might be interested. Although the
features are somewhat weathered, the carving remains relatively
detailed (eg the links in the armour), and the shield is virtually
intact.

MA-R

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Tomb of Robert de Vere, 3rd Earl of Oxford, d 1221

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 07 mai 2007 22:56:51

In message of 7 May, mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:

When Robert, Earl of Oxford died, he was not buried at Earl's Colne
with the rest of his family, but at Hatfield Priory. An effigy was
placed on his tomb, probably some fifty years after his death. After
the Dissolution, this effigy was removed, and spent some years
outside, subject to the weather, before it was replaced in the chancel
of the church at Hatfield Broad Oak (Essex).

I visited this afternoon, and took some photos of the effigy, which I
am happy to pass on to anyone who might be interested. Although the
features are somewhat weathered, the carving remains relatively
detailed (eg the links in the armour), and the shield is virtually
intact.

Of course re Robert.

Did you by any chance also photo any of his effigy's probable
persecutors, those Barringtons of that village, the one-time Foresters
of Hatfeild Forest and immediate occupiers of the local Priory when it
was sold off, not to mention supporters, by and large, of the
Parliamentary Party having married into the Cromwell family?

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

Gjest

Re: Tomb of Robert de Vere, 3rd Earl of Oxford, d 1221

Legg inn av Gjest » 08 mai 2007 07:03:13

On 7 Mai, 22:56, Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote:
In message of 7 May, m...@btinternet.com wrote:

When Robert, Earl of Oxford died, he was not buried at Earl's Colne
with the rest of his family, but at Hatfield Priory. An effigy was
placed on his tomb, probably some fifty years after his death. After
the Dissolution, this effigy was removed, and spent some years
outside, subject to the weather, before it was replaced in the chancel
of the church at Hatfield Broad Oak (Essex).

I visited this afternoon, and took some photos of the effigy, which I
am happy to pass on to anyone who might be interested. Although the
features are somewhat weathered, the carving remains relatively
detailed (eg the links in the armour), and the shield is virtually
intact.

Of course re Robert.

Did you by any chance also photo any of his effigy's probable
persecutors, those Barringtons of that village, the one-time Foresters
of Hatfeild Forest and immediate occupiers of the local Priory when it
was sold off, not to mention supporters, by and large, of the
Parliamentary Party having married into the Cromwell family?

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe

Sorry Tim, I did not. Unless they were hidden away, I didn't see many
other monuments of particular merit, other than some tomb-slabs
between the effigy and the altar (which were to Hawkins and their
London kin) and one partly obscured by a screen, which had roundel
portraits of a man and a woman - I see now from the guide-book that
they were in the Barrington Chapel.

MA-R

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Tomb of Robert de Vere, 3rd Earl of Oxford, d 1221

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 08 mai 2007 10:36:51

In message of 8 May, mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:

On 7 Mai, 22:56, Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote:
In message of 7 May, m...@btinternet.com wrote:

When Robert, Earl of Oxford died, he was not buried at Earl's Colne
with the rest of his family, but at Hatfield Priory.

<snip>

Did you by any chance also photo any of his effigy's probable
persecutors, those Barringtons of that village, the one-time Foresters
of Hatfeild Forest and immediate occupiers of the local Priory when it
was sold off, not to mention supporters, by and large, of the
Parliamentary Party having married into the Cromwell family?


Sorry Tim, I did not. Unless they were hidden away, I didn't see many
other monuments of particular merit, other than some tomb-slabs
between the effigy and the altar (which were to Hawkins and their
London kin) and one partly obscured by a screen, which had roundel
portraits of a man and a woman - I see now from the guide-book that
they were in the Barrington Chapel.

Sounds a bit like the fate of the Drake chapel that is probably better
known to you at Amersham - and usually locked to visitors. But thanks
for looking it up.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

Gjest

Re: Tomb of Robert de Vere, 3rd Earl of Oxford, d 1221

Legg inn av Gjest » 08 mai 2007 11:48:59

On May 8, 10:36 am, Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote:
In message of 8 May, m...@btinternet.com wrote:

On 7 Mai, 22:56, Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote:
In message of 7 May, m...@btinternet.com wrote:

When Robert, Earl of Oxford died, he was not buried at Earl's Colne
with the rest of his family, but at Hatfield Priory.

snip

Did you by any chance also photo any of his effigy's probable
persecutors, those Barringtons of that village, the one-time Foresters
of Hatfeild Forest and immediate occupiers of the local Priory when it
was sold off, not to mention supporters, by and large, of the
Parliamentary Party having married into the Cromwell family?

Sorry Tim, I did not. Unless they were hidden away, I didn't see many
other monuments of particular merit, other than some tomb-slabs
between the effigy and the altar (which were to Hawkins and their
London kin) and one partly obscured by a screen, which had roundel
portraits of a man and a woman - I see now from the guide-book that
they were in the Barrington Chapel.

Sounds a bit like the fate of the Drake chapel that is probably better
known to you at Amersham - and usually locked to visitors. But thanks
for looking it up.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe

The Barrington chapel is open, although you have to clamber around
into the side of the chancel to find the opening; it has been
"converted" into a functioning chapel, where the Sacrament is kept
reserved, so it has lost the sense of being the family's monument room
that presumably it originally held.

I imagine you know the Drake Chapel at Amersham. Although it has also
been converted for services, it has largely retained its original
sense, probably because of the overwhelming number of family memorials
and the overbearing size of some of them. The chapel is open one day
a year (second Saturday in September), when I do guided tours;
additionally, I am a key-holder, so if ever you wish to have a look at
it, I would be happy to open it up for you. The earliest monuments
there are early Jacobean, which makes it slightly OT here.

Cheers, Michael

Gjest

Re: Tomb of Robert de Vere, 3rd Earl of Oxford, d 1221

Legg inn av Gjest » 08 mai 2007 20:14:41

On 7 Mai, 18:51, m...@btinternet.com wrote:
When Robert, Earl of Oxford died, he was not buried at Earl's Colne
with the rest of his family, but at Hatfield Priory. An effigy was
placed on his tomb, probably some fifty years after his death. After
the Dissolution, this effigy was removed, and spent some years
outside, subject to the weather, before it was replaced in the chancel
of the church at Hatfield Broad Oak (Essex).

I visited this afternoon, and took some photos of the effigy, which I
am happy to pass on to anyone who might be interested. Although the
features are somewhat weathered, the carving remains relatively
detailed (eg the links in the armour), and the shield is virtually
intact.

MA-R

It is stated in various places (e.g. the ODNB article on Robert, 3rd
Earl of Oxford) that the coat of arms displayed on the effigy's shield
is highly unusual, in that the first quarter, bearing a mullet [star]
has as its background 'France ancient' - i.e. a field of fleurs-de-
lis - whereas it is depicted in every other known representation
simply as a red field. However, inspection of the shield itself shows
this is not strictly speaking the case: in fact, the entire shield has
a background of fleurs-de-lis, each carefully carved and displayed
within an intricate system of fretwork. The reason that those on the
first quarter appear immediately prominent is that that quarter has
been treated or polished on some way so as to give it a different
sheen that the rest - no doubt an echo of it having a different colour
(red), while almost the entire sinister side of the shield is worn or
weathered to the extent that it is difficult to discern any pattern.

MA-R

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Tomb of Robert de Vere, 3rd Earl of Oxford, d 1221

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 08 mai 2007 22:05:51

In message of 8 May, mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:

<snip>

The Barrington chapel is open, although you have to clamber around
into the side of the chancel to find the opening; it has been
"converted" into a functioning chapel, where the Sacrament is kept
reserved, so it has lost the sense of being the family's monument room
that presumably it originally held.

I imagine you know the Drake Chapel at Amersham. Although it has also
been converted for services, it has largely retained its original
sense, probably because of the overwhelming number of family memorials
and the overbearing size of some of them. The chapel is open one day
a year (second Saturday in September), when I do guided tours;
additionally, I am a key-holder, so if ever you wish to have a look at
it, I would be happy to open it up for you. The earliest monuments
there are early Jacobean, which makes it slightly OT here.

(You may have noticed I was indulging in a bit of OT English chatting
to show the yanks what it was like!)

Yes - and there are (were) one or two nice restaurants in Amersham which
should kill two birds with one stone. Lunch and Drakes, that is.

I presume you are only free at the weekends? Further churches tend to
be occupied on Sundays. So it looks like Saturdays.

Correct me if I am wrong. But assuming some rightness, I have the
following Saturdays free:

This Sat, 12th May,
26th May
2 June
9 June
16 June

And further, is the Crown serving decent food these days? The Kings
Head used to be very good but then it closed, I think for refurbishment.
There are/were two cramped fish restaurants but the food wasn't bad.
Other suggestions?

regards.

Tim

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

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