Matilda, wife of Simon de Montfort, Count of Evreux (d 1181)

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Gjest

Matilda, wife of Simon de Montfort, Count of Evreux (d 1181)

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 mai 2007 22:20:16

I see from the charter of Simon de Montfort, dated February 1199, as
published in the Cartulary of the Abbey of Notre-Dame des Vaux de
Cernay (p 71 et seq), that he names his predecessors as follows:

1. Amalric, Count of Evreux; had issue:

2a. Amalric, succeeded as a minor under the tutelage of Amalric de
Mestenon

2b. Simon, brother and heir of the foregoing; married Matilda.
("Mahaudis uxor eius").

Is the identity of this Matilda known?

MA-R

Peter Stewart

Re: Matilda, wife of Simon de Montfort, Count of Evreux (d 1

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 05 mai 2007 01:52:42

<mjcar@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1178313616.580749.116960@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
I see from the charter of Simon de Montfort, dated February 1199, as
published in the Cartulary of the Abbey of Notre-Dame des Vaux de
Cernay (p 71 et seq), that he names his predecessors as follows:

1. Amalric, Count of Evreux; had issue:

2a. Amalric, succeeded as a minor under the tutelage of Amalric de
Mestenon

2b. Simon, brother and heir of the foregoing; married Matilda.
("Mahaudis uxor eius").

Is the identity of this Matilda known?

No, evidence for her family is lacking.

The charter extract that you found in the footnote to another collection is
internally dated February 1198 (Annunciation style, for 1199 as given by the
editor). The cartulary of the hospital of Le Grand-Beaulieu containing this
charter was compiled in 1259, but naming the famous Simon de Montfort's wife
Eve (instead of Alix, Alidis, etc, as in all other occurrences) suggests
that this document was perhaps inserted later. I don't know if it is in the
same hand as the rest, that were transcribed in the mid-13th century by a
monk named Vincent, but if so presumably the anomalous name was taken from a
suspect original written well after 1199.

Peter Stewart

Gjest

Re: Matilda, wife of Simon de Montfort, Count of Evreux (d 1

Legg inn av Gjest » 05 mai 2007 04:57:25

On 5 Mai, 01:52, "Peter Stewart" <p_m_stew...@msn.com> wrote:
m...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:1178313616.580749.116960@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

I see from the charter of Simon de Montfort, dated February 1199, as
published in the Cartulary of the Abbey of Notre-Dame des Vaux de
Cernay (p 71 et seq), that he names his predecessors as follows:

1. Amalric, Count of Evreux; had issue:

2a. Amalric, succeeded as a minor under the tutelage of Amalric de
Mestenon

2b. Simon, brother and heir of the foregoing; married Matilda.
("Mahaudis uxor eius").

Is the identity of this Matilda known?

No, evidence for her family is lacking.

The charter extract that you found in the footnote to another collection is
internally dated February 1198 (Annunciation style, for 1199 as given by the
editor). The cartulary of the hospital of Le Grand-Beaulieu containing this
charter was compiled in 1259, but naming the famous Simon de Montfort's wife
Eve (instead of Alix, Alidis, etc, as in all other occurrences) suggests
that this document was perhaps inserted later. I don't know if it is in the
same hand as the rest, that were transcribed in the mid-13th century by a
monk named Vincent, but if so presumably the anomalous name was taken from a
suspect original written well after 1199.

Many thanks, Peter.

Peter Stewart

Re: Matilda, wife of Simon de Montfort, Count of Evreux (d 1

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 05 mai 2007 05:31:13

"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote in message
news:uzQ_h.33908$M.8699@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
mjcar@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1178313616.580749.116960@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
I see from the charter of Simon de Montfort, dated February 1199, as
published in the Cartulary of the Abbey of Notre-Dame des Vaux de
Cernay (p 71 et seq), that he names his predecessors as follows:

1. Amalric, Count of Evreux; had issue:

2a. Amalric, succeeded as a minor under the tutelage of Amalric de
Mestenon

2b. Simon, brother and heir of the foregoing; married Matilda.
("Mahaudis uxor eius").

Is the identity of this Matilda known?

No, evidence for her family is lacking.

The charter extract that you found in the footnote to another collection
is internally dated February 1198 (Annunciation style, for 1199 as given
by the editor). The cartulary of the hospital of Le Grand-Beaulieu
containing this charter was compiled in 1259, but naming the famous Simon
de Montfort's wife Eve (instead of Alix, Alidis, etc, as in all other
occurrences) suggests that this document was perhaps inserted later. I
don't know if it is in the same hand as the rest, that were transcribed in
the mid-13th century by a monk named Vincent, but if so presumably the
anomalous name was taken from a suspect original written well after 1199.

In Auguste Molinier's catalogue of the documents of Simon and Amaury de
Montfort, BEC 34 (1873) available at

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k12409v

this charter is no. 5 on page 447. Molinier had a similar opinion about the
charter, but he did not clarify whether or not this was written by the same
hand as the rest of the cartulary, in 1259. Vincent also compiled an
obituary of the Grand-Beaulieu hospital in the same year, where Simon de
Montfort is recorded on 24 June (one day early), but his wife is not
mentioned there by any name - nor is his (presumed) paternal grandmother
Matilda.

Peter Stewart

Douglas Richardson

Re: Matilda, wife of Simon de Montfort, Count of Evreux (d 1

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 05 mai 2007 21:29:03

There is also an obit of Simon de Montfort (died 1218), Count of
Montfort, recorded on 25 June in Cartulaire de l'Abbaye de Saint-
Martin de Pontoise (1896): 232:

25 June "Symon comes Montisfortis"

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Peter Stewart

Re: Matilda, wife of Simon de Montfort, Count of Evreux (d 1

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 06 mai 2007 00:09:24

"Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1178396943.008055.319510@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
There is also an obit of Simon de Montfort (died 1218), Count of
Montfort, recorded on 25 June in Cartulaire de l'Abbaye de Saint-
Martin de Pontoise (1896): 232:

25 June "Symon comes Montisfortis"

Simon de Montfort was one of the most famous man of his time, and his death
is recorded in many obituaries. Most of these give 25 June, the correct
date, while some others give 24, 26 or even 27 June (his anniversary, along
with wife and two eldest sons, at Notre-Dame du Val) - a degree of variance
that is not at all unusual.

Peter Stewart

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