Descent From Edward III For Col. John Alured, Regicide

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Brad Verity

Descent From Edward III For Col. John Alured, Regicide

Legg inn av Brad Verity » 18 apr 2007 11:02:39

For a nice switch, there is only one descent from Joan Beaufort for
regicide John Alured.

The Alureds were originally a Suffolk family. It was Thomas Alured
(d. 1562) who first settled in Yorkshire, becoming a successful
merchant at Kingston-upon-Hull. He was the first of the family to
make his seat at the Charterhouse in Hull, a cluster of buildings with
three walled gardens. The site extended to about one and a half acres
on the banks of the River Hull, and was once part of a neighbouring
Carthusian priory, dissolved in 1539. It's not clear whether Thomas
purchased the Charterhouse or it came to him as part of the
inheritance of his wife Eleanor Constable, daughter of Ralph Constable
of St. Sepulchres (a younger son of the Constables of Burton
Constable), and co-heiress of her maternal grandfather Ezekias
Clifton. His marriage to a Constable raised Alured to the minor
gentry level, and it was his son and heir John who married into the
bloodline of Edward III when he took Frances Gates for a wife in about
1580. Her father, Sir Henry Gates, was also a transplant to
Yorkshire, and though the main family estate Seamer was in the North
Riding, Gates had a manor house in Hull, and was an important official
in the East Riding, serving as a M.P. for Scarborough. It was no
doubt thru the influence of his father-in-law that John Alured also
was returned as a M.P. , twice, for Hull, in 1584 & 1586.

The most notable Alured descendant of John and Frances Gates was their
grandson, John Alured, who was a signee of the death warrant of
Charles I.

http://www.robert-temple.com/articles/M ... tml#Alured

He lost his family seat when both the priory and the Charterhouse were
demolished in September 1643 by order of Ferdinando, Lord Fairfax, the
Governor of the Hull garrison, who feared that the Royalist forces
might use them as a siege-point. Alured lost thousands of pounds of
his own money in the civil war, and the family never recovered their
standing in Yorkshire, though the male line continued into the 1700s,
and may still even exist today.

Joan Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland (c.1379-1440), had a daughter
(A1)

A1) Anne Nevill, Duchess of Buckingham (c.1406-1480), who had
A2) Joan Stafford (1442-1484) m. 2)1477 Sir William Knyvett of
Buckenham, Norfolk (1440-1515), and had
A3) Charles Knyvett of Hamerton, Huntingdonshire (c.1478-by 1528) m.
Ann (?)Hugford, and had
A4) Lucy Knyvett (d. 1577) m. by 1544 Sir Henry Gates of Seamer,
Yorks. (by 1523-1589), and had
A5) Frances Gates (1552-aft.1592) m. c.1580 John Alured of the
Charterhouse, Hull (d. 1611), and had
A6) Henry Alured of the Charterhouse (1581-1628) m. Frances Vaughan
(d. 1626), and had
A7) John Alured of the Charterhouse, M.P., Colonel in the
parliamentary army, regicide (1607-1651)

Cheers, ------Brad

wjhonson

Re: Descent From Edward III For Col. John Alured, Regicide

Legg inn av wjhonson » 18 apr 2007 21:28:58

Thanks Brad for this interesting post.

I have a few minor notes. There is a lease by Henry Alured "for a
thousand years". I thought that was very humorous

Sheffield Archives: Broomhead Hall Deeds
BROOMHEAD HALL DEEDS
Catalogue Ref. BHD
Creator(s): Wilson, Rimington-, family of Broomhead Hall, West Riding
of Yorkshire
Rimington-Wilson family of Broomhead Hall, West Riding of Yorkshire
RIMINGTON-WILSON PAPERS
I Deeds
Deeds to copyhold property of Thomas Crosland in Preston and Burstwick
in Holderness, Yorks
FILE - Sale of a rentcharge - ref. BHD/153A - date: 27 Apr 1771
[from Scope and Content] Elizabeth Thompson of Kingston upon Hull, to
Thomas Crosland of Preston. A yearly rent charge of two shillings out
of a certain messuage now in Crosland's possession, and which was
leased for a thousand years by Henry Alured of the Charter House near
Kingston on Hull, in 1609; for £4. 4s.

Another thing is the baptism of John Alured son of Henry was
2 Apr 1607 at Sculcoates, Yorkshire (see http://www.familysearch.org - IGI -
British Isles - Batch P009151)

Will Johnson

John Brandon

Re: Descent From Edward III For Col. John Alured, Regicide

Legg inn av John Brandon » 18 apr 2007 21:35:32

Thanks Brad for this interesting post.

I have a few minor notes. There is a lease by Henry Alured "for a
thousand years". I thought that was very humorous

Isn't that a very common legal formula?

My ancestor Mr. Cogswell Jr. had the lease of the Ipswich School
Farm for 999 years in 1650.

wjhonson

Re: Descent From Edward III For Col. John Alured, Regicide

Legg inn av wjhonson » 18 apr 2007 21:46:36

One more thing, we can change the marriage date from "about 1580" to
"31 Jul 1580 at Sculcoates"

per extracted Batch M009151

Will Johnson

wjhonson

Re: Descent From Edward III For Col. John Alured, Regicide

Legg inn av wjhonson » 18 apr 2007 21:52:17

On Apr 18, 1:35 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Brad for this interesting post.

I have a few minor notes. There is a lease by Henry Alured "for a
thousand years". I thought that was very humorous

Isn't that a very common legal formula?

My ancestor Mr. Cogswell Jr. had the lease of the Ipswich School
Farm for 999 years in 1650.

I'm sure you're right John. I'm not really up on what is typical and
not in these sorts of transactions.

Why for instance in this document are they referring back to something
from 1607? What's the relevance of that? It seems awfully long
before this document.

Will Johnson

wjhonson

Re: Descent From Edward III For Col. John Alured, Regicide

Legg inn av wjhonson » 18 apr 2007 21:57:31

I have finished extracting the baptisms from Sculcoates.
For those who feverishly cling to the notion of naming patterns, here
are the order of children born to John Alured (son of Thomas and
Eleanor) by his wife Frances Gates (dau of Henry and Lucy)

Henry, John, Thomas, Katherine, Edward, Lancelot, Francis, Benjamin,
Lucy

The eldest son and heir Henry married Frances Vaughan on 12 Feb 1603
at Sculcoates and here are their children in order
Anne, Eleanor, John, Thomas, Christopher, Everell (a female), George,
Matthew, Francis, Sarah, Elizabeth, Marie, William and Latimer (a
male)

John Alured the regicide had at least two children
Mary in 1639 and Benjamin in 1640

His brother Christopher also had a daughter Mary in 1638

The eldest daughter of Henry Alured and Frances Vaughan, Anne
apparently married Robert Johnson 31 May 1628 at Sculcoates

Will Johnson

John Brandon

Re: Descent From Edward III For Col. John Alured, Regicide

Legg inn av John Brandon » 18 apr 2007 22:51:22

Why for instance in this document are they referring back to something
from 1607? What's the relevance of that? It seems awfully long
before this document.

Will Johnson

Maybe the date of the original lease?

Terry J Booth

Re: Descent From Edward III For Col. John Alured, Regicide

Legg inn av Terry J Booth » 18 apr 2007 22:55:05

Often property owners are prohibited from selling it, will lose title if
they sell it, or for tax or other reasons don't want a transaction recorded
as a sale. In other instances, the owner needs the cash but wants to attach
enforceable restrictions to the use of the property. A perfectly legal 'way
around' these problems is to lease a property for such a long period of time
it is the equivalent of a sale. Long lived leases should therefore normally
be viewed as if they were a sale, since one has no knowledge of one's
posterity after a generation or two.

Today there are laws 'against perpetuities' which restrict the length of a
lease to no more than the lifetime of one's children, or 99 years, or some
other term much lower than 1000 years.

There would seem to be good reasons in the age of primogeniture, for a
medieval owner of property to seek to thwart the law by leasing it before
the first son received his inheritance. No doubt there were also laws that
sought to thwart such a practice. Perhaps someone else has further insight.

Terry Booth

----- Original Message -----
From: "wjhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: Descent From Edward III For Col. John Alured, Regicide


On Apr 18, 1:35 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Brad for this interesting post.

I have a few minor notes. There is a lease by Henry Alured "for a
thousand years". I thought that was very humorous

Isn't that a very common legal formula?

My ancestor Mr. Cogswell Jr. had the lease of the Ipswich School
Farm for 999 years in 1650.

I'm sure you're right John. I'm not really up on what is typical and
not in these sorts of transactions.

Why for instance in this document are they referring back to something
from 1607? What's the relevance of that? It seems awfully long
before this document.

Will Johnson

Brad Verity

Re: Descent From Edward III For Col. John Alured, Regicide

Legg inn av Brad Verity » 19 apr 2007 22:27:14

On Apr 18, 1:57 pm, wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:

I have finished extracting the baptisms from Sculcoates.
For those who feverishly cling to the notion of naming patterns, here
are the order of children born to John Alured (son of Thomas and
Eleanor) by his wife Frances Gates (dau of Henry and Lucy)

Dear Will,

Many thanks for the marriage entry for Frances Gates and John Alured -
it's great to have that. I haven't been able to locate a burial entry
for Frances or John on IGI - have you?

Henry, John, Thomas, Katherine, Edward, Lancelot, Francis, Benjamin,
Lucy

Oh, I missed Katherine, Edward and Francis. They don't appear on the
1612 Visitation pedigree of the family, so I imagine they died young,
or at least unmarried. Here is the info I have on the rest:

1) Henry Alured, son and heir, born 22 June 1581, married at
Sculcoates 12 February 1603/04, buried at Holy Trinity church, Hull 14
April 1628.
2) John Alured, baptized at Sculcoates 6 October 1582, died ...?
3) Thomas Alured, bap. at Sculcoates 3 September 1583, M.P. for Hedon,
died May 1638; married ...?
4) Lancelot Alured (great name ), bap. at Sculcoates 28 May 1590, of
Filey, Yorks., married 1624, Lady Grace Nevill , died ...?
5) Benjamin Alured, bap. at Sculcoates 28 May 1590, died ...?
6) Lucy Alured, born 1 June, bap. at Sculcoates 24 June 1592, married
1st, Francis Darley of Kilnhurst; married 2nd, ???; married 3rd at
Norton, Derbys. 27 November 1638, Andrew Marvell (b.at Meldreth,
Cambridgeshire c.1586; died 23 January 1641, when boat capsized
crossing the Humber), son of Andrew Marvel, yeoman (buried at Holy
Trinity church, Hull 13 April 1628), who removed to yorkshire in 1627;
MA Emanuel College, Cambridge (1608), minister at Flamborough 1610,
rector of St. Germain, Winestead-in-Holderness 23 April 1614, lecturer
at Holy Trinity church, Hull 1624, Master of the Charterhouse 2
October 1624; died October 1664, stepmother of the poet Andrew
Marvell.

The eldest son and heir Henry married Frances Vaughan on 12 Feb 1603
at Sculcoates and here are their children in order
Anne, Eleanor, John, Thomas, Christopher, Everell (a female), George,
Matthew, Francis, Sarah, Elizabeth, Marie, William and Latimer (a
male)

I missed Marie, but here is what I found on the rest:

1) Anne Alured, born 4 May, bap. at Sculcoates 9 May 1605, married at
Sculcoates 31 May 1628, Robart Johnsonn, died ...?
2) Eleanor Alured, bap. at Sculcoates 23 March 1606, buried 3 December
1624
3) John Alured, bap. at Sculcoates 4 April 1607, M.P., regicide,
married 1st) 17 November 1731, Mary Darley; married 2nd) Mary Arnold,
died in London September 1651.
3) Thomas Alured, bap. at Sculcoates 1 September 1608, died ...?
4) Christopher Alured, bap. at Sculcoates 27 January 1609/10, buried
(as Kitt Alured) 15 May 1623
5) Everill Alured, bap. at Sculcoates 9 April 1511, married 4 November
1634, Andrew Clare, died ...?
6) George Alured, bap. at Sculcoates 4 August 1612, died 25 April 1616
7) Matthew Alured, bap. at Sculcoates 3 January 1615, married 1642,
Catherine Nelthorp, died ...?
8) Sarah Alured, bap. at Sculcoates 5 April 1617, died ...?
9) Elizabeth Alured, bap. at Sculcoates 1 October 1618, buried 1
September 1624
10) William Alured, bap. at Sculcoates 19 September 1621, died 15 May
1623
11) Latimer Alured, bap. at Sculcoates 13 October 1622, died ...?

John Alured the regicide had at least two children
Mary in 1639 and Benjamin in 1640

Per his bio that I linked to in my initial post, John had three sons
and a daughter. I found John Alured (baptized at Buttercrambe 21
August 1632), his heir, who became a colonel in Ireland but did not
survive his father by many years, and Benjamin Alured (baptized 22
September 1640, died 29 January 1641). You found the daughter Mary.
The other son, Thomas Alured became a barrister and recorder of
Beverley.

His brother Christopher also had a daughter Mary in 1638

Probably not the same Christopher -- see above.

The eldest daughter of Henry Alured and Frances Vaughan, Anne
apparently married Robert Johnson 31 May 1628 at Sculcoates

Yes.

And thank you, Will, for explaining how to use the IGI. I've found a
lot of great info there so far.

Cheers, -------Brad

wjhonson

Re: Descent From Edward III For Col. John Alured, Regicide

Legg inn av wjhonson » 19 apr 2007 23:25:00

Brad on the specific question of Lucy Alured's second marriage, you
will find a DNB entry for her third husband "Marvell, Andrew, the
elder (1586 ? - 1641)" where they state, among other things:

"Marvell married twice (1) Anne Pease 22 Oct 1612; (2) Lucy, daughter
of John Alured, and widow of WILLIAM HARRIS, 27 Nov 1638" [empasis
mine]

Chris Dickinson

Re: Descent From Edward III For Col. John Alured, Regicide

Legg inn av Chris Dickinson » 19 apr 2007 23:53:30

Terry Booth wrote:

<snip>
Perhaps someone else has further insight.

The Todds have - on the 1000-year leases of St Bees.


From:

"Archbishop Grindal's birthplace: Cross Hill, St Bees, Cumbria"
By JOHN TODD AND MARY TODD", CWAAS (forgotten the year but fairly recent):



St Bees Priory was dissolved on 16 October 1539.(11) The lands held by the
customary tenants went through the hands of Henry VIII's agent Sir Thomas
Leigh to the second husband of Leigh's widow, the distinguished diplomat
Sir Thomas Challoner.(12) It was an anxious time for the tenants. They had
enjoyed fixed low rents and light burdens of custom under the monks.
Although their tenure was in theory at the will of the lord, it was in
practice hereditary. Now, in a time of rapid inflation, landlords
everywhere were seeking to raise rents and reduce security of tenure.(13)
The courtier Challoner was perhaps in need of ready cash, and may have been
influenced by Edmund Grindal, with whom he seems to have been on good
terms.(14) He struck a bargain with his tenants in 1560. In return for lump
sums totalling £88, he granted them leases for fifty years at rents which
(in the incomplete list which survives) were roughly one and three-quarters
times as much as the rents of 1500. It was agreed that, at the end of the
term, the old customary tenure would apply in default of other provision;
and for better security the old customs were written down at a session of
the manor court in 1587.

....

When new leases were granted to the St Bees tenants in 1609 (close to the
expiry of the 1560 leases)

....

Archbishop Grindal had a posthumous hand in the granting of the new leases.
It was generally believed that he intended the money which he left to endow
St Bees School to be invested in the freehold of the St Bees tenants'
lands, so that they might regain the security which "covetous landlords"
once threatened, "so to settle their estates that they might hold the same
without eviction or hard dealing". The freehold was in the hands of the
Crown, having been surrendered by Challoner to settle a debt to Elizabeth I
in 1561. In 1604, Grindal's executors purchased it from James 1 on behalf
of the governors of St Bees School. After much controversy, and a disputed
arbitration by Bancroft, archbishop of Canterbury, the governors granted to
the tenants leases at fixed rents, to run for a thousand years from 31
January 1609.(26)



Chris

Brad Verity

Re: Descent From Edward III For Col. John Alured, Regicide

Legg inn av Brad Verity » 20 apr 2007 05:43:15

On Apr 19, 3:25 pm, wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:

Brad on the specific question of Lucy Alured's second marriage, you
will find a DNB entry for her third husband "Marvell, Andrew, the
elder (1586 ? - 1641)" where they state, among other things:

"Marvell married twice (1) Anne Pease 22 Oct 1612; (2) Lucy, daughter
of John Alured, and widow of WILLIAM HARRIS, 27 Nov 1638" [empasis
mine]

Thanks, Will!

Cheers, -----Brad

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