Thomas Cheke / Essex Rich

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wjhonson

Thomas Cheke / Essex Rich

Legg inn av wjhonson » 14 apr 2007 05:15:48

A few years ago I had posted some details about an "Edward Cheeke" who
was traveling on the continent with his tutor 1694-98 and who died by
1707 but not before having a son and heir who died in 1712.

A few *months* ago I had posted the baptismal dates for the three
daughters of Thomas Cheke of Pirgo, Essex by his wife Essex Rich and
Leo had advised me there should be a fourth daughter, Isabella.

While mousing around looking for more details on the life of "Essex
Rich" I happened to stumble on that very detail that allows us to
merge these two discussions.

There was a person called "Thomas Cheke of Pirgo, esquire" living in
1673 and dead by 1689. Thomas married Leticia Russell who survived
him and married Robert Russell. The IGI gives patron submitted dates
for Leticia's two marriages of 8 Mar 1670 at St Mary, Savoy, London
and 1 Aug 1688 in London.

Robert Russell has a grant to Leticia Russell as "guardian to Edward
Russell, son and heir of the late Thomas Russell of Pirgo" on 23 Mar
1688/9

We then have a House of Lords Journal Office Paper dated 19 Feb 1708
stating "Letitia Russell, widow, Ann Cheek widow of Edward Cheek of
Pirgo decd and Essex Cheek sister of Edward..."

Checking the extracted IGI we find baptisms for Henry, Thomas and
"Effey" Cheek at Romford, Essex in the 1670s where looking back we
find Thomas Cheke baptised there on 9 Oct 1628 (British Isles Batch
C042541)

Cross-checking http://www.british-history.ac.uk for Romford we get
confirmation that this Thomas is that Thomas.

So finally we can say that Thomas Cheke and Essex Rich had to have had
at least six children: Frances, Essex, Anne, Isabella, THOMAS and
CHARLES (these are new additions). Charles was baptised at Romford 21
Feb 1629

That this Thomas Cheke married Leticia Russell dau of Edward Russell
by his wife Penelope Hill and that Thomas and Leticia had at least or
exactly four children: Edward, Henry, Thomas and Essex.

Essex Cheke, Anne the widow of Edward and Leticia (Russell) were all
still living 19 Feb 1708 when they petition the House of Lords.

Anne Ellys the widow must have married secondly a Tipping after 1706
and by him a daughter Katherine Tipping who m Thomas Archer, Esq of
Umberslade, Tanworth as is already known. The confusion coming by
assigning Anne as a daughter, instead of a daughter-in-law to Leticia.

Will Johnson
-----------------------------
Notes for Thomas Cheeke 1628-
For baptism see
http://www.familysearch.org - IGI - British Isles - Batch C042541
-------------
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... =45473#n68 stating
"Thomas Cheke, whose baptism is here recorded, was descended lineally
from Sir John Cheke of Pirgo, one of the tutors of Edward VI. He was
Lieutenant of the Tower in the reigns of Charles II. and James II.

From: 'Romford', The Environs of London: volume 4: Counties of Herts,
Essex & Kent (1796), pp. 183-203. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... mpid=45473.
Date accessed: 14 April 2007."

Cheke,
Thomas (fn. 63) , son of Sr Thomas Cheke, baptized Oct. 9, 1628;
Cheke, Charles, Feb. 21, 1629-30; Edward Cheke, Esq. a minor, the only
remain of the family of Pirgo, buried Feb. 16, 1712-3."

From: 'Romford', The Environs of London: volume 4: Counties of Herts,
Essex & Kent (1796), pp. 183-203. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... mpid=45473.
Date accessed: 14 April 2007.
-----------------------
Shakespeare Birthplace Trust Records Office: Archer of Tanworth [DR
37/1/1 - DR 37/2/Box 97]
ARCHER OF TANWORTH
Catalogue Ref. DR 37
Creator(s): Archer family of Tanworth, Warwickshire
item: [no title] - ref. DR 37/2/Box 89/134 - date: 15 November 1673
[from Scope and Content] Bond from William Foster, Northweald Bassett,
Essex to Thomas, Cheeke, Pirgo, Essex, esq. for £10 to perform
covenants in deed of even date.
----------
Shakespeare Birthplace Trust Records Office: Archer of Tanworth [DR
37/2/Box 98 - DR 37/3/64]
ARCHER OF TANWORTH
Catalogue Ref. DR 37
Creator(s): Archer family of Tanworth, Warwickshire

FILE [no title] - ref. DR 37/2/Box 98 - date: 1672-1725
[from Administrative History] In 1670/1 Letitia (or Laetitia) Russell
married Thomas Cheeke of Pirgo, Essex, the second son of Sir Thomas
Cheeke and Essex, daughter of the Earl of Warwick.

[from Scope and Content] Catherine Tipping's mother, Anne, was the
daughter and sole surviving child of Thomas Cheeke of Pirgo, Essex,
and Letitia his wife. Letitia, a niece of the Duke of Bedford, having
begun life as a Russell, married for her second husband her cousin,
Lord Robert Russell, by whom, however, she had no children.

item: [no title] - ref. DR 37/2/Box 98/30 - date: 23 March 1688/9
[from Scope and Content] Robert Cheeke to Letitia Cheeke, guardian to
Edward Cheeke son and heir to the late Thomas Cheeke of Pirgo, Essex.

NOTES for Leticia Russell b about 1649/51
Shakespeare Birthplace Trust Records Office: Archer of Tanworth [DR
37/2/Box 98 - DR 37/3/64]
ARCHER OF TANWORTH
Catalogue Ref. DR 37
Creator(s): Archer family of Tanworth, Warwickshire

FILE [no title] - ref. DR 37/2/Box 98 - date: 1672-1725
[from Administrative History] In 1670/1 Letitia (or Laetitia) Russell
married Thomas Cheeke of Pirgo, Essex, the second son of Sir Thomas
Cheeke and Essex, daughter of the Earl of Warwick.

[from Scope and Content] Catherine Tipping's mother, Anne, was the
daughter and sole surviving child of Thomas Cheeke of Pirgo, Essex,
and Letitia his wife. Letitia, a niece of the Duke of Bedford, having
begun life as a Russell, married for her second husband her cousin,
Lord Robert Russell, by whom, however, she had no children.

item: [no title] - ref. DR 37/2/Box 98/30 - date: 23 March 1688/9
[from Scope and Content] Robert Cheeke to Letitia Cheeke, guardian to
Edward Cheeke son and heir to the late Thomas Cheeke of Pirgo, Essex.
----------------
Parliamentary Archives: House of Lords: Journal Office [HL/PO/JO/
10/6/133 - HL/PO/JO/10/6/289]
House of Lords
Catalogue Ref. HL
House of Lords: Journal Office: Main Papers - ref. HL/PO/JO/10
House of Lords: Journal Office: Main Papers 1700-1718
FILE - Main Papers 2446 - 2457 - ref. HL/PO/JO/10/6/144 - date: 11 Feb
1708 - 23 Feb 1708
item: Cheek's Estate Act - ref. HL/PO/JO/10/6/144/2452 - date: 19 Feb
1708
[from Scope and Content] Petition of Lady Letitia Russell, widow, and
of Ann Cheek, widow of Edward Cheek, late of Pirgo, [Pergo] in the
county of Essex, Esquire, deceased, and Essex Cheek, sister of the
said Edward Cheek, praying for leave to bring in a Bill.

NOTES for Edward Cheeke, esq of Pirgo, Essex died 1707
Details from A2A:
From 1694 to 1698 Edward Cheeke travelled abroad with his tutor,
Germain Colladon, staying first in Geneva and then going on to tour

Italy, and the letters and accounts sent back to England by Colladon
form an important part of this section. In 1700 Edward married Anne,
daughter of Sir William Ellys (or Ellis) of Nocton in Lincolnshire; he
was appointed deputy lieutenant for Essex in 1703, but died in 1707,
leaving a son Edward. This child died in 1712, and Anne, now Lady
Tipping, finally inherited all the property.
ref. DR 37/2/Box 98/48 - date: Geneva, 28 May 1695 O.S
[from Scope and Content] Letter. He has not answered earlier because
of an attack of ague and colic, but is now recovering. He gives news
of Edward Cheeke's progress; the latter has received communion on
Whitsunday, being 'tall & of a competent age '. He cannot find
opportunity to draw money, trade with England being bad because of the
war and change is very high.
ref. DR 37/2/Box 98/97 - date: 1699
[from Scope and Content] Account showing sums paid by Lady Russell and
received by Germain Colladon during Edward Cheeke's travels abroad.
ref. DR 37/2/Box 98/98-138 - date: 1700 - 1705
[from Scope and Content] A bundle comprising 34 drafts by Edward
Cheeke on James Heriot, one receipt associated with a draft, Heriot's
accounts with Edward Cheeke for 1700, 1701 and 1702,
----------------------------------------
Parliamentary Archives: House of Lords: Journal Office [HL/PO/JO/
10/6/133 - HL/PO/JO/10/6/289]
House of Lords
Catalogue Ref. HL
House of Lords: Journal Office: Main Papers - ref. HL/PO/JO/10
House of Lords: Journal Office: Main Papers 1700-1718
FILE - Main Papers 2446 - 2457 - ref. HL/PO/JO/10/6/144 - date: 11 Feb
1708 - 23 Feb 1708
item: Cheek's Estate Act - ref. HL/PO/JO/10/6/144/2452 - date: 19 Feb
1708
[from Scope and Content] Petition of Lady Letitia Russell, widow, and
of Ann Cheek, widow of Edward Cheek, late of Pirgo, [Pergo] in the
county of Essex, Esquire, deceased, and Essex Cheek, sister of the
said Edward Cheek, praying for leave to bring in a Bill.

wjhonson

Re: Thomas Cheke / Essex Rich

Legg inn av wjhonson » 14 apr 2007 06:13:12

So I was mousing around A2A searching on Thomas CHEEKE and the
following is... shocking.

Norfolk Record Office: Hare Family, Baronets of Stow Bardolph [Hare
173 - Hare 744]
HARE FAMILY, BARONETS, OF STOW BARDOLPH
Catalogue Ref. Hare
Creator(s): Hare family of Stow Bardolph, Norfolk
Deeds
FILE - Licence of Alienation - ref. Hare 537 187 x 4 - date: 1599
[from Scope and Content] Sir Robert Riche and Frances his wife and Sir
John Payton to Sir Thomas Cheeke Kt. and Essex, his wife

I was flabbergasted, lost, adrift in a sea of doubt and perplexity.
Robert Rich, Earl of Warwick was married at this time to Penelope Lady
Rich, she was still living !
Just to make sure I actually looked at the "Catalog in Full" which has
this entry as:
-------------------
Reference: Hare 537 187 x 4
Licence of Alienation
Creation dates: 1599
Physical characteristics: Seal tag
Scope and Content
Sir Robert Riche and Frances his wife and Sir John Payton to Sir
Thomas Cheeke Kt. and Essex, his wife
Land with woods and hedgerows in Buckton alias Boughton
10 Nov 41 Eliz

It's hard to mistake 41 Eliz for 10 James or something.
What's going on here? Was Robert Rich a bigamist?
The above is definitely that same Essex Rich his daughter who married
Thomas Cheeke

Will Johnson

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Thomas Cheke / Essex Rich

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 14 apr 2007 11:08:16

In message of 14 Apr, "wjhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com> wrote:

A few years ago I had posted some details about an "Edward Cheeke" who
was traveling on the continent with his tutor 1694-98 and who died by
1707 but not before having a son and heir who died in 1712.

A few *months* ago I had posted the baptismal dates for the three
daughters of Thomas Cheke of Pirgo, Essex by his wife Essex Rich and
Leo had advised me there should be a fourth daughter, Isabella.

While mousing around looking for more details on the life of "Essex
Rich" I happened to stumble on that very detail that allows us to
merge these two discussions.

There was a person called "Thomas Cheke of Pirgo, esquire" living in
1673 and dead by 1689. Thomas married Leticia Russell who survived
him and married Robert Russell. The IGI gives patron submitted dates
for Leticia's two marriages of 8 Mar 1670 at St Mary, Savoy, London
and 1 Aug 1688 in London.

Robert Russell has a grant to Leticia Russell as "guardian to Edward
Russell, son and heir of the late Thomas Russell of Pirgo" on 23 Mar
1688/9

Does this mean that Thomas Russell was 'of Pirgo'?

We then have a House of Lords Journal Office Paper dated 19 Feb 1708
stating "Letitia Russell, widow, Ann Cheek widow of Edward Cheek of
Pirgo decd and Essex Cheek sister of Edward..."

Checking the extracted IGI we find baptisms for Henry, Thomas and
"Effey" Cheek at Romford, Essex in the 1670s where looking back we
find Thomas Cheke baptised there on 9 Oct 1628 (British Isles Batch
C042541)

Cross-checking http://www.british-history.ac.uk for Romford we get
confirmation that this Thomas is that Thomas.

So finally we can say that Thomas Cheke and Essex Rich had to have had
at least six children: Frances, Essex, Anne, Isabella, THOMAS and
CHARLES (these are new additions). Charles was baptised at Romford 21
Feb 1629

The Harleian version of the Essex (where else?) 1634 visitation gives 8
children:

Robert, then aged 9, eldest son
Thomas, second son
Charles, third son
Frances
Essex
Anne
Issabell
Elizabeth

This entry looks strongly as if the person interviewed by the herald was
Thomas Cheke the father (confirmation would come from the original of
the visitation but this is in the College of Arms and not in the
Harleian manuscripts from which this book was culled), so the list of
children has good credibility up to 1634, though others could have been
born afterwards.

That this Thomas Cheke married Leticia Russell dau of Edward Russell
by his wife Penelope Hill and that Thomas and Leticia had at least or
exactly four children: Edward, Henry, Thomas and Essex.

Essex Cheke, Anne the widow of Edward and Leticia (Russell) were all
still living 19 Feb 1708 when they petition the House of Lords.

Anne Ellys the widow must have married secondly a Tipping after 1706
and by him a daughter Katherine Tipping who m Thomas Archer, Esq of
Umberslade, Tanworth as is already known. The confusion coming by
assigning Anne as a daughter, instead of a daughter-in-law to Leticia.

I have a different story. My none too reliable text is the Stemmata
Chicheleana Volume II published in 1775, page 38, Stemma No 326. where
it says quite clearly that Sir Thomas Tipping m. Ann Cheek, the daughter
of Letitia Russell (a Chichele descendant) and Thomas Cheek of Pirgo,
Essex.

To some extent CP confirms this in its Archer article, Vol I, p. 188
where is says that "Thomas Archer ... of _Pirgo, Essex_ ... m.
Catherine, yst da. and coh. of of Sir Thomas Tipping, 1st Bart (by Anne
da. and h. of Thomas Cheek of Pirgo afsd) ...". I can see no correction
to this in either Vol XIV or in Chris Phillips Corrections site.

Further CP has of Catherine Tipping's sister Laetitia, Vol XI, p. 450,
that Samuel Sandy, first baron of a new creation, "... m. Laetitia, 1st
da. and and ... coh. of Sir Thomas Tipping, 1st Bart, ... by Anne, da.
and eventually h. of Thomas Cheek of Pirgo, in Havering, Essex."

The real clue here is that Thomas Archer got hold of the Pirgo estate
and this was almost certainly by the inheritances of the two Cheek heirs
(though it could have been by purchase). Anne the daughter of Sir
Thomas Cheek and Letitia Russell inherited it first and it then passed
to her and Thos Tipping's dau. and hr, the Anne who m. Thos Archer.

Will Johnson
-----------------------------
Notes for Thomas Cheeke 1628-
For baptism see
http://www.familysearch.org - IGI - British Isles - Batch C042541
-------------
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... =45473#n68 stating
"Thomas Cheke, whose baptism is here recorded, was descended lineally
from Sir John Cheke of Pirgo, one of the tutors of Edward VI. He was
Lieutenant of the Tower in the reigns of Charles II. and James II.

From: 'Romford', The Environs of London: volume 4: Counties of Herts,
Essex & Kent (1796), pp. 183-203. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... mpid=45473.
Date accessed: 14 April 2007."

Cheke,
Thomas (fn. 63) , son of Sr Thomas Cheke, baptized Oct. 9, 1628;
Cheke, Charles, Feb. 21, 1629-30; Edward Cheke, Esq. a minor, the only
remain of the family of Pirgo, buried Feb. 16, 1712-3."

From: 'Romford', The Environs of London: volume 4: Counties of Herts,
Essex & Kent (1796), pp. 183-203. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... mpid=45473.
Date accessed: 14 April 2007.
-----------------------
Shakespeare Birthplace Trust Records Office: Archer of Tanworth [DR
37/1/1 - DR 37/2/Box 97]
ARCHER OF TANWORTH
Catalogue Ref. DR 37
Creator(s): Archer family of Tanworth, Warwickshire
item: [no title] - ref. DR 37/2/Box 89/134 - date: 15 November 1673
[from Scope and Content] Bond from William Foster, Northweald Bassett,
Essex to Thomas, Cheeke, Pirgo, Essex, esq. for £10 to perform
covenants in deed of even date.
----------
Shakespeare Birthplace Trust Records Office: Archer of Tanworth [DR
37/2/Box 98 - DR 37/3/64]
ARCHER OF TANWORTH
Catalogue Ref. DR 37
Creator(s): Archer family of Tanworth, Warwickshire

FILE [no title] - ref. DR 37/2/Box 98 - date: 1672-1725
[from Administrative History] In 1670/1 Letitia (or Laetitia) Russell
married Thomas Cheeke of Pirgo, Essex, the second son of Sir Thomas
Cheeke and Essex, daughter of the Earl of Warwick.

[from Scope and Content] Catherine Tipping's mother, Anne, was the
daughter and sole surviving child of Thomas Cheeke of Pirgo, Essex,
and Letitia his wife. Letitia, a niece of the Duke of Bedford, having
begun life as a Russell, married for her second husband her cousin,
Lord Robert Russell, by whom, however, she had no children.

item: [no title] - ref. DR 37/2/Box 98/30 - date: 23 March 1688/9
[from Scope and Content] Robert Cheeke to Letitia Cheeke, guardian to
Edward Cheeke son and heir to the late Thomas Cheeke of Pirgo, Essex.

NOTES for Leticia Russell b about 1649/51
Shakespeare Birthplace Trust Records Office: Archer of Tanworth [DR
37/2/Box 98 - DR 37/3/64]
ARCHER OF TANWORTH
Catalogue Ref. DR 37
Creator(s): Archer family of Tanworth, Warwickshire

FILE [no title] - ref. DR 37/2/Box 98 - date: 1672-1725
[from Administrative History] In 1670/1 Letitia (or Laetitia) Russell
married Thomas Cheeke of Pirgo, Essex, the second son of Sir Thomas
Cheeke and Essex, daughter of the Earl of Warwick.

[from Scope and Content] Catherine Tipping's mother, Anne, was the
daughter and sole surviving child of Thomas Cheeke of Pirgo, Essex,
and Letitia his wife. Letitia, a niece of the Duke of Bedford, having
begun life as a Russell, married for her second husband her cousin,
Lord Robert Russell, by whom, however, she had no children.

item: [no title] - ref. DR 37/2/Box 98/30 - date: 23 March 1688/9
[from Scope and Content] Robert Cheeke to Letitia Cheeke, guardian to
Edward Cheeke son and heir to the late Thomas Cheeke of Pirgo, Essex.
----------------
Parliamentary Archives: House of Lords: Journal Office [HL/PO/JO/
10/6/133 - HL/PO/JO/10/6/289]
House of Lords
Catalogue Ref. HL
House of Lords: Journal Office: Main Papers - ref. HL/PO/JO/10
House of Lords: Journal Office: Main Papers 1700-1718
FILE - Main Papers 2446 - 2457 - ref. HL/PO/JO/10/6/144 - date: 11 Feb
1708 - 23 Feb 1708
item: Cheek's Estate Act - ref. HL/PO/JO/10/6/144/2452 - date: 19 Feb
1708
[from Scope and Content] Petition of Lady Letitia Russell, widow, and
of Ann Cheek, widow of Edward Cheek, late of Pirgo, [Pergo] in the
county of Essex, Esquire, deceased, and Essex Cheek, sister of the
said Edward Cheek, praying for leave to bring in a Bill.

NOTES for Edward Cheeke, esq of Pirgo, Essex died 1707
Details from A2A:
From 1694 to 1698 Edward Cheeke travelled abroad with his tutor,
Germain Colladon, staying first in Geneva and then going on to tour
Italy, and the letters and accounts sent back to England by Colladon
form an important part of this section. In 1700 Edward married Anne,
daughter of Sir William Ellys (or Ellis) of Nocton in Lincolnshire; he
was appointed deputy lieutenant for Essex in 1703, but died in 1707,
leaving a son Edward. This child died in 1712, and Anne, now Lady
Tipping, finally inherited all the property.
ref. DR 37/2/Box 98/48 - date: Geneva, 28 May 1695 O.S
[from Scope and Content] Letter. He has not answered earlier because
of an attack of ague and colic, but is now recovering. He gives news
of Edward Cheeke's progress; the latter has received communion on
Whitsunday, being 'tall & of a competent age '. He cannot find
opportunity to draw money, trade with England being bad because of the
war and change is very high.
ref. DR 37/2/Box 98/97 - date: 1699
[from Scope and Content] Account showing sums paid by Lady Russell and
received by Germain Colladon during Edward Cheeke's travels abroad.
ref. DR 37/2/Box 98/98-138 - date: 1700 - 1705
[from Scope and Content] A bundle comprising 34 drafts by Edward
Cheeke on James Heriot, one receipt associated with a draft, Heriot's
accounts with Edward Cheeke for 1700, 1701 and 1702,
----------------------------------------
Parliamentary Archives: House of Lords: Journal Office [HL/PO/JO/
10/6/133 - HL/PO/JO/10/6/289]
House of Lords
Catalogue Ref. HL
House of Lords: Journal Office: Main Papers - ref. HL/PO/JO/10
House of Lords: Journal Office: Main Papers 1700-1718
FILE - Main Papers 2446 - 2457 - ref. HL/PO/JO/10/6/144 - date: 11 Feb
1708 - 23 Feb 1708
item: Cheek's Estate Act - ref. HL/PO/JO/10/6/144/2452 - date: 19 Feb
1708
[from Scope and Content] Petition of Lady Letitia Russell, widow, and
of Ann Cheek, widow of Edward Cheek, late of Pirgo, [Pergo] in the
county of Essex, Esquire, deceased, and Essex Cheek, sister of the
said Edward Cheek, praying for leave to bring in a Bill.



--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Thomas Cheke / Essex Rich

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 14 apr 2007 13:50:53

In message of 14 Apr, "wjhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com> wrote:

So I was mousing around A2A searching on Thomas CHEEKE and the
following is... shocking.

'shocking' - I don't believe you. But than that is a word beloved on
this side of the Atlantic by newspapers to indicate that there is a good
bit of titillation in store and thus to attract readers.

Norfolk Record Office: Hare Family, Baronets of Stow Bardolph [Hare
173 - Hare 744]
HARE FAMILY, BARONETS, OF STOW BARDOLPH
Catalogue Ref. Hare
Creator(s): Hare family of Stow Bardolph, Norfolk
Deeds
FILE - Licence of Alienation - ref. Hare 537 187 x 4 - date: 1599
[from Scope and Content] Sir Robert Riche and Frances his wife and Sir
John Payton to Sir Thomas Cheeke Kt. and Essex, his wife

I was flabbergasted, lost, adrift in a sea of doubt and perplexity.
Robert Rich, Earl of Warwick was married at this time to Penelope Lady
Rich, she was still living !
Just to make sure I actually looked at the "Catalog in Full" which has
this entry as:
-------------------
Reference: Hare 537 187 x 4
Licence of Alienation
Creation dates: 1599
Physical characteristics: Seal tag
Scope and Content
Sir Robert Riche and Frances his wife and Sir John Payton to Sir
Thomas Cheeke Kt. and Essex, his wife
Land with woods and hedgerows in Buckton alias Boughton
10 Nov 41 Eliz

It's hard to mistake 41 Eliz for 10 James or something.
What's going on here? Was Robert Rich a bigamist?
The above is definitely that same Essex Rich his daughter who married
Thomas Cheeke

Both the old DNB and ODNB give a different but mutually similar story.
Penelope Devereux was the naughty one and some of her children were
fathered by Charles Blount. Rich eventually divorced Penelope on 14th
November 1605; she m. Blount on 26 Dec 1605; Blount died on 3 April 1606
and she died on 7 Jul 1607.

CP has it that Rich m. Francis [sic] Wray on 14 Dec 1616, though the 1st
DNB has this marriage in 1605. There are no CP corrections in XIV or on
Chris Phillips' site.


--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

Gjest

Re: Thomas Cheke / Essex Rich

Legg inn av Gjest » 14 apr 2007 23:36:51

On 14 Apr., 13:50, Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote:
In message of 14 Apr, "wjhonson" <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:

So I was mousing around A2A searching on Thomas CHEEKE and the
following is... shocking.

'shocking' - I don't believe you. But than that is a word beloved on
this side of the Atlantic by newspapers to indicate that there is a good
bit of titillation in store and thus to attract readers.







Norfolk Record Office: Hare Family, Baronets of Stow Bardolph [Hare
173 - Hare 744]
HARE FAMILY, BARONETS, OF STOW BARDOLPH
Catalogue Ref. Hare
Creator(s): Hare family of Stow Bardolph, Norfolk
Deeds
FILE - Licence of Alienation - ref. Hare 537 187 x 4 - date: 1599
[from Scope and Content] Sir Robert Riche and Frances his wife and Sir
John Payton to Sir Thomas Cheeke Kt. and Essex, his wife

I was flabbergasted, lost, adrift in a sea of doubt and perplexity.
Robert Rich, Earl of Warwick was married at this time to Penelope Lady
Rich, she was still living !
Just to make sure I actually looked at the "Catalog in Full" which has
this entry as:
-------------------
Reference: Hare 537 187 x 4
Licence of Alienation
Creation dates: 1599
Physical characteristics: Seal tag
Scope and Content
Sir Robert Riche and Frances his wife and Sir John Payton to Sir
Thomas Cheeke Kt. and Essex, his wife
Land with woods and hedgerows in Buckton alias Boughton
10 Nov 41 Eliz

It's hard to mistake 41 Eliz for 10 James or something.
What's going on here? Was Robert Rich a bigamist?
The above is definitely that same Essex Rich his daughter who married
Thomas Cheeke

Both the old DNB and ODNB give a different but mutually similar story.
Penelope Devereux was the naughty one and some of her children were
fathered by Charles Blount. Rich eventually divorced Penelope on 14th
November 1605; she m. Blount on 26 Dec 1605; Blount died on 3 April 1606
and she died on 7 Jul 1607.

CP has it that Rich m. Francis [sic] Wray on 14 Dec 1616, though the 1st
DNB has this marriage in 1605. There are no CP corrections in XIV or on
Chris Phillips' site.

Possibly there is some confusion. According to ODNB, Sir Robert Rich
the elder married Frances nee Wray in 1616, and his son by his first
marriage, Sir Robert Rich the younger (born 1587, Kt 1603) married
Frances Hatton on 24 February 1605.

The elder Sir Robert became 1st Earl of Warwick in 1618, and was
succeeded by his son, Robert, as 2nd Earl in 1619.

Neither Sir Robert & Frances his wife fits with 10 November 41
Elizabeth I [1599].

Were Essex Rich and Thomas Cheke married by 1599? (NB Her parents
were married in 1581; her eldest son was aged 9 in 1625, and her son
Charles was baptised in 1629). Was Thomas a knight by that date?

MA-R

wjhonson

Re: Thomas Cheke / Essex Rich

Legg inn av wjhonson » 17 apr 2007 01:29:31

On Apr 14, 3:08 am, Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote:
In message of 14 Apr, "wjhonson" <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:





A few years ago I had posted some details about an "Edward Cheeke" who
was traveling on the continent with his tutor 1694-98 and who died by
1707 but not before having a son and heir who died in 1712.

A few *months* ago I had posted the baptismal dates for the three
daughters of Thomas Cheke of Pirgo, Essex by his wife Essex Rich and
Leo had advised me there should be a fourth daughter, Isabella.

While mousing around looking for more details on the life of "Essex
Rich" I happened to stumble on that very detail that allows us to
merge these two discussions.

There was a person called "Thomas Cheke of Pirgo, esquire" living in
1673 and dead by 1689. Thomas married Leticia Russell who survived
him and married Robert Russell. The IGI gives patron submitted dates
for Leticia's two marriages of 8 Mar 1670 at St Mary, Savoy, London
and 1 Aug 1688 in London.

Robert Russell has a grant to Leticia Russell as "guardian to Edward
Russell, son and heir of the late Thomas Russell of Pirgo" on 23 Mar
1688/9

Does this mean that Thomas Russell was 'of Pirgo'?


Tim good catch, I mucked this one up good.
Of course the above *should* have said
Robert Russell has a grant to Leticia Russell as "guardian to Edward
CHEEKE, son and heir of the late Thomas CHEEKE of Pirgo"

Mea Culpa !
I plead dementia

Will Johnson

wjhonson

Re: Thomas Cheke / Essex Rich

Legg inn av wjhonson » 17 apr 2007 01:47:24

On Apr 14, 3:36 pm, m...@btinternet.com wrote:
On 14 Apr., 13:50, Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote:





In message of 14 Apr, "wjhonson" <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:

So I was mousing around A2A searching on Thomas CHEEKE and the
following is... shocking.

'shocking' - I don't believe you. But than that is a word beloved on
this side of the Atlantic by newspapers to indicate that there is a good
bit of titillation in store and thus to attract readers.

Norfolk Record Office: Hare Family, Baronets of Stow Bardolph [Hare
173 - Hare 744]
HARE FAMILY, BARONETS, OF STOW BARDOLPH
Catalogue Ref. Hare
Creator(s): Hare family of Stow Bardolph, Norfolk
Deeds
FILE - Licence of Alienation - ref. Hare 537 187 x 4 - date: 1599
[from Scope and Content] Sir Robert Riche and Frances his wife and Sir
John Payton to Sir Thomas Cheeke Kt. and Essex, his wife

I was flabbergasted, lost, adrift in a sea of doubt and perplexity.
Robert Rich, Earl of Warwick was married at this time to Penelope Lady
Rich, she was still living !
Just to make sure I actually looked at the "Catalog in Full" which has
this entry as:
-------------------
Reference: Hare 537 187 x 4
Licence of Alienation
Creation dates: 1599
Physical characteristics: Seal tag
Scope and Content
Sir Robert Riche and Frances his wife and Sir John Payton to Sir
Thomas Cheeke Kt. and Essex, his wife
Land with woods and hedgerows in Buckton alias Boughton
10 Nov 41 Eliz

It's hard to mistake 41 Eliz for 10 James or something.
What's going on here? Was Robert Rich a bigamist?
The above is definitely that same Essex Rich his daughter who married
Thomas Cheeke

Both the old DNB and ODNB give a different but mutually similar story.
Penelope Devereux was the naughty one and some of her children were
fathered by Charles Blount. Rich eventually divorced Penelope on 14th
November 1605; she m. Blount on 26 Dec 1605; Blount died on 3 April 1606
and she died on 7 Jul 1607.

CP has it that Rich m. Francis [sic] Wray on 14 Dec 1616, though the 1st
DNB has this marriage in 1605. There are no CP corrections in XIV or on
Chris Phillips' site.

Possibly there is some confusion. According to ODNB, Sir Robert Rich
the elder married Frances nee Wray in 1616, and his son by his first
marriage, Sir Robert Rich the younger (born 1587, Kt 1603) married
Frances Hatton on 24 February 1605.

The elder Sir Robert became 1st Earl of Warwick in 1618, and was
succeeded by his son, Robert, as 2nd Earl in 1619.

Neither Sir Robert & Frances his wife fits with 10 November 41
Elizabeth I [1599].

Were Essex Rich and Thomas Cheke married by 1599? (NB Her parents
were married in 1581; her eldest son was aged 9 in 1625, and her son
Charles was baptised in 1629). Was Thomas a knight by that date?

MA-R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Although her eldest son was aged 9 in 1625, that is not the critical
path. You will note in an earlier thread I cited three baptisms of
her five daughters. those baptisms occuring at St Martin in the
Fields. Frances, Essex and Anne in that order matching the 1634 Essex
Vis.

Further corraboration that these three specific baptisms belong to
this same family would be had if we could otherwise tie Thomas Cheeke
to St Martin in the Fields.

While doing this research I did find documents to do just that. Of
which one should be sufficient and is

Norfolk Record Office: Hare Family, Baronets of Stow Bardolph [Hare
173 - Hare 744]
HARE FAMILY, BARONETS, OF STOW BARDOLPH
Catalogue Ref. Hare
Creator(s): Hare family of Stow Bardolph, Norfolk
WEST NORFOLK ESTATE
Boughton alias Bukton
Deeds relating to the manors

FILE - Deed of Feoffment - ref. Hare 458 187 x 2 - date: 1616
[from Scope and Content] Sir Robert Riche of Leez le Riche (Essex).
and Lady Frances his wife to Sir Thomas Cheeke of St.Martins in the
Fields


The last document I found calling him of St Martins in the Fields was
in 1619 and the next document I found in 1634 is calling him of Pirgo.

Now to the point of the nine-year old son, the three baptisms I found
at St Martins put the eldest daughter Frances as baptised on 11 Feb
1617 while the nine-year old son Robert would have been born 1624/6
depending on whether they mean "he is already past nine" or "he in IN
his ninth year of life (i.e. more than eight but less than nine)"

So actually we know this couple were married by 1616 at the latest.
That the 1617 date represents the modern-style is attested by the fact
that there next daughter Essex was baptised on 7 Apr 1618, thus after
the beginning of the year, but too close to allow them to have been in
the same year.

Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Thomas Cheke / Essex Rich

Legg inn av Gjest » 17 apr 2007 13:47:28

On Apr 17, 1:47 am, "wjhonson" <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
On Apr 14, 3:36 pm, m...@btinternet.com wrote:





On 14 Apr., 13:50, Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote:

In message of 14 Apr, "wjhonson" <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:

So I was mousing around A2A searching on Thomas CHEEKE and the
following is... shocking.

'shocking' - I don't believe you. But than that is a word beloved on
this side of the Atlantic by newspapers to indicate that there is a good
bit of titillation in store and thus to attract readers.

Norfolk Record Office: Hare Family, Baronets of Stow Bardolph [Hare
173 - Hare 744]
HARE FAMILY, BARONETS, OF STOW BARDOLPH
Catalogue Ref. Hare
Creator(s): Hare family of Stow Bardolph, Norfolk
Deeds
FILE - Licence of Alienation - ref. Hare 537 187 x 4 - date: 1599
[from Scope and Content] Sir Robert Riche and Frances his wife and Sir
John Payton to Sir Thomas Cheeke Kt. and Essex, his wife

I was flabbergasted, lost, adrift in a sea of doubt and perplexity.
Robert Rich, Earl of Warwick was married at this time to Penelope Lady
Rich, she was still living !
Just to make sure I actually looked at the "Catalog in Full" which has
this entry as:
-------------------
Reference: Hare 537 187 x 4
Licence of Alienation
Creation dates: 1599
Physical characteristics: Seal tag
Scope and Content
Sir Robert Riche and Frances his wife and Sir John Payton to Sir
Thomas Cheeke Kt. and Essex, his wife
Land with woods and hedgerows in Buckton alias Boughton
10 Nov 41 Eliz

It's hard to mistake 41 Eliz for 10 James or something.
What's going on here? Was Robert Rich a bigamist?
The above is definitely that same Essex Rich his daughter who married
Thomas Cheeke

Both the old DNB and ODNB give a different but mutually similar story.
Penelope Devereux was the naughty one and some of her children were
fathered by Charles Blount. Rich eventually divorced Penelope on 14th
November 1605; she m. Blount on 26 Dec 1605; Blount died on 3 April 1606
and she died on 7 Jul 1607.

CP has it that Rich m. Francis [sic] Wray on 14 Dec 1616, though the 1st
DNB has this marriage in 1605. There are no CP corrections in XIV or on
Chris Phillips' site.

Possibly there is some confusion. According to ODNB, Sir Robert Rich
the elder married Frances nee Wray in 1616, and his son by his first
marriage, Sir Robert Rich the younger (born 1587, Kt 1603) married
Frances Hatton on 24 February 1605.

The elder Sir Robert became 1st Earl of Warwick in 1618, and was
succeeded by his son, Robert, as 2nd Earl in 1619.

Neither Sir Robert & Frances his wife fits with 10 November 41
Elizabeth I [1599].

Were Essex Rich and Thomas Cheke married by 1599? (NB Her parents
were married in 1581; her eldest son was aged 9 in 1625, and her son
Charles was baptised in 1629). Was Thomas a knight by that date?

MA-R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Although her eldest son was aged 9 in 1625, that is not the critical
path. You will note in an earlier thread I cited three baptisms of
her five daughters. those baptisms occuring at St Martin in the
Fields. Frances, Essex and Anne in that order matching the 1634 Essex
Vis.

Further corraboration that these three specific baptisms belong to
this same family would be had if we could otherwise tie Thomas Cheeke
to St Martin in the Fields.

While doing this research I did find documents to do just that. Of
which one should be sufficient and is

Norfolk Record Office: Hare Family, Baronets of Stow Bardolph [Hare
173 - Hare 744]
HARE FAMILY, BARONETS, OF STOW BARDOLPH
Catalogue Ref. Hare
Creator(s): Hare family of Stow Bardolph, Norfolk
WEST NORFOLK ESTATE
Boughton alias Bukton
Deeds relating to the manors

FILE - Deed of Feoffment - ref. Hare 458 187 x 2 - date: 1616
[from Scope and Content] Sir Robert Riche of Leez le Riche (Essex).
and Lady Frances his wife to Sir Thomas Cheeke of St.Martins in the
Fields

The last document I found calling him of St Martins in the Fields was
in 1619 and the next document I found in 1634 is calling him of Pirgo.

Now to the point of the nine-year old son, the three baptisms I found
at St Martins put the eldest daughter Frances as baptised on 11 Feb
1617 while the nine-year old son Robert would have been born 1624/6
depending on whether they mean "he is already past nine" or "he in IN
his ninth year of life (i.e. more than eight but less than nine)"

So actually we know this couple were married by 1616 at the latest.
That the 1617 date represents the modern-style is attested by the fact
that there next daughter Essex was baptised on 7 Apr 1618, thus after
the beginning of the year, but too close to allow them to have been in
the same year.

Unless the first daughter was baptised some time after her birth,
which is unlikely but not impossible. I am aware of cases where an
elder sibling's delayed baptism has been put in hand due to the
imminent arrival of a younger.

I will try to ascertain the date of Thomas Cheke's knighthood when I
am next at the SoG, as this will give an "earliest" date for the
document apparently erroneously assigned to 41 Elizabeth.

MA-R

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