A gateway ancestor to Virginia is Thomas Bradley from Ackworth,
Yorkshire, who emigrated to New Kent County as a merchant in 1655. He
apparently had a son Edward Bradley (1680-1734) who married Sarah
Cookson, and there are descendants living today.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/bradley/m ... /6188.html
Thomas's father Dr. Thomas Bradley, rector of Ackworth, was chaplain
to King Charles I and suffered greatly during the Commonwealth as a
result.
http://www.ackworth.w-yorks.sch.uk/ack/rector.html
Though Dr. Bradley's father was seated in Berkshire, his grandfather
was a Yorkshireman who served in Henry VIII's army on the Boulogne
expedition (per the pedigree of the family in Dugdale's 1665
Visitation). It was no doubt Dr. Bradley's office as chaplain to the
King that warranted him a marriage in 1631 (the year after her
father's death) to Frances, youngest daughter of John Savile, 1st
Baron of Pomfret (Pontefract). Thru his mother, gateway Thomas
Bradbury was descended from Edward III in at least 2 lines. As
neither line was thru Joan Beaufort, I don't have firm dates for all
the generations, but both are given below.
John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster (1340-1399), who had
A1) John Beaufort, 1st Earl of Somerset (c.1372-1410), who had
A2) Edmund Beaufort, 1st Duke of Somerset (1406-1455), who had (with
B3 below)
A3) Anne Beaufort m. Sir William Paston (1434-1496), and had
A4) Elizabeth Paston m. 1) Sir John Savile of Thornhill, and had
A5) Sir Henry Savile of Thornhill (d. 1558) by mistress Margaret
Barkston, had
A6) Sir Robert Savile of Howley, Lincs. (illeg.) (d.1585) m. 1555
Agnes Hussey, and had
A7) John Savile, 1st Baron of Pomfret (1556-1630) m. 2) 1586 Elizabeth
Cary (see B7 below), and had
A8) Frances Savile (d.1664) m. 1631 Dr. Thomas Bradley, Rector of
Ackworth, Yorks.(1596/97-1672), and had
A9) Thomas Bradley, 1st son, emigrated to VA 1655 and became a
merchant (1633-17--)
B3) Eleanor Beaufort (d. 1501) m. 2) Sir Robert Spencer of
Spencercombe, Devon, and had
B4) Margaret Spencer m. Thomas Cary of Chilton Foliot, and had
B5) Sir John Cary of Thremhall Priory (c.1495-1552) m. Joyce Denny,
and had
B6) Sir Edward Cary of Aldenham (c.1540-1618) m. Catherine Knyvett (d.
1632), and had
B7) Elizabeth Cary m. 1586 John Savile, 1st Baron of Pomfret (see A7
above)
I'm off on a road trip for a few days. Wishing everyone a healthy,
happy Easter (or Spring or whatever) holiday.
Cheers, ---------Brad
Descent From Edward III For Thomas Bradley of New Kent Count
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Nathaniel Taylor
Re: Descent From Edward III For Thomas Bradley of New Kent C
In article <1176076766.474372.296930@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
"Brad Verity" <royaldescent@hotmail.com> wrote:
<...>
What a splendid thing to post and then wander away from.
The 1665 visitation informant was the father, still alive, so arms and
the immediate ancestry of Thomas, "a merchant in Virginia," are proved
(though, NB, the informant told the herald that proof of the arms was to
be found in the Visitation of Berkshire, but nothing was found there,
which puts this in an ambiguous armorial class with, for example, the
witch Mrs. Codman of Connecticut). To clinch the genealogy, is there a
sound publication to show that the son referred to in the visitation is
the one of the same name in VA from whom descents are traced? If there
is no doubt about the identity the Virginia man, have no Bradley
descendants really ever noticed this, and thrust it into the American
royal descent literature before? This Bradley is not in the _Ancestral
Roots_ or _Plantagenet Ancestry_ series.
Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net
"Brad Verity" <royaldescent@hotmail.com> wrote:
A gateway ancestor to Virginia is Thomas Bradley from Ackworth,
Yorkshire, who emigrated to New Kent County as a merchant in 1655. He
apparently had a son Edward Bradley (1680-1734) who married Sarah
Cookson, and there are descendants living today.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/bradley/m ... /6188.html
Thomas's father Dr. Thomas Bradley, rector of Ackworth, was chaplain
to King Charles I and suffered greatly during the Commonwealth as a
result.
http://www.ackworth.w-yorks.sch.uk/ack/rector.html
Though Dr. Bradley's father was seated in Berkshire, his grandfather
was a Yorkshireman who served in Henry VIII's army on the Boulogne
expedition (per the pedigree of the family in Dugdale's 1665
Visitation). It was no doubt Dr. Bradley's office as chaplain to the
King that warranted him a marriage in 1631 (the year after her
father's death) to Frances, youngest daughter of John Savile, 1st
Baron of Pomfret (Pontefract). Thru his mother, gateway Thomas
Bradbury was descended from Edward III in at least 2 lines. As
neither line was thru Joan Beaufort, I don't have firm dates for all
the generations, but both are given below.
<...>
I'm off on a road trip for a few days. Wishing everyone a healthy,
happy Easter (or Spring or whatever) holiday.
What a splendid thing to post and then wander away from.
The 1665 visitation informant was the father, still alive, so arms and
the immediate ancestry of Thomas, "a merchant in Virginia," are proved
(though, NB, the informant told the herald that proof of the arms was to
be found in the Visitation of Berkshire, but nothing was found there,
which puts this in an ambiguous armorial class with, for example, the
witch Mrs. Codman of Connecticut). To clinch the genealogy, is there a
sound publication to show that the son referred to in the visitation is
the one of the same name in VA from whom descents are traced? If there
is no doubt about the identity the Virginia man, have no Bradley
descendants really ever noticed this, and thrust it into the American
royal descent literature before? This Bradley is not in the _Ancestral
Roots_ or _Plantagenet Ancestry_ series.
Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net
-
John Brandon
Re: Descent From Edward III For Thomas Bradley of New Kent C
What a splendid thing to post and then wander away from.
The 1665 visitation informant was the father, still alive, so arms and
the immediate ancestry of Thomas, "a merchant in Virginia," are proved
(though, NB, the informant told the herald that proof of the arms was to
be found in the Visitation of Berkshire, but nothing was found there,
which puts this in an ambiguous armorial class with, for example, the
witch Mrs. Codman of Connecticut). To clinch the genealogy, is there a
sound publication to show that the son referred to in the visitation is
the one of the same name in VA from whom descents are traced? If there
is no doubt about the identity the Virginia man, have no Bradley
descendants really ever noticed this, and thrust it into the American
royal descent literature before? This Bradley is not in the _Ancestral
Roots_ or _Plantagenet Ancestry_ series.
A pedigree and arms *are* shown in the Berks. Visitation, 2:80-81, but
maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "proof of
arms" (something like the statement that the arms were granted to so-
and-so, a specific person depicted in the pedigree?)...
http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/ ... index.html
-
Nathaniel Taylor
Re: Descent From Edward III For Thomas Bradley of New Kent C
In article <1176117669.849093.160670@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
"John Brandon" <starbuck95@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yes, I saw wthis. That pedigree in the 1665 Berks. visitation ed. looks
like it is from the same source as that published in the Yorks. one, but
it has the added note that the proof is not found in any other
Visitation as Bradley said it would be. It isn't clear whether the
father was claiming a prior grant or simply ancient usage confirmed by
an earlier visitation; in any case, the herald noted that nothing was
found, but the arms were not disclaimed. This doesn't affect the
genealogy, because no ancient (agnatic) lineage was claimed, but it is
an interesting note on status.
Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net
"John Brandon" <starbuck95@hotmail.com> wrote:
What a splendid thing to post and then wander away from.
The 1665 visitation informant was the father, still alive, so arms and
the immediate ancestry of Thomas, "a merchant in Virginia," are proved
(though, NB, the informant told the herald that proof of the arms was to
be found in the Visitation of Berkshire, but nothing was found there,
which puts this in an ambiguous armorial class with, for example, the
witch Mrs. Codman of Connecticut). To clinch the genealogy, is there a
sound publication to show that the son referred to in the visitation is
the one of the same name in VA from whom descents are traced? If there
is no doubt about the identity the Virginia man, have no Bradley
descendants really ever noticed this, and thrust it into the American
royal descent literature before? This Bradley is not in the _Ancestral
Roots_ or _Plantagenet Ancestry_ series.
A pedigree and arms *are* shown in the Berks. Visitation, 2:80-81, but
maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "proof of
arms" (something like the statement that the arms were granted to so-
and-so, a specific person depicted in the pedigree?)...
http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/ ... index.html
Yes, I saw wthis. That pedigree in the 1665 Berks. visitation ed. looks
like it is from the same source as that published in the Yorks. one, but
it has the added note that the proof is not found in any other
Visitation as Bradley said it would be. It isn't clear whether the
father was claiming a prior grant or simply ancient usage confirmed by
an earlier visitation; in any case, the herald noted that nothing was
found, but the arms were not disclaimed. This doesn't affect the
genealogy, because no ancient (agnatic) lineage was claimed, but it is
an interesting note on status.
Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net
-
Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re: Descent From Edward III For Thomas Bradley of New Kent C
In message of 9 Apr, Nathaniel Taylor <nathanieltaylor@earthlink.net> wrote:
On the basis that many of the disclaimers were principally trying to
avoid paying the herald's fees, one is tempted to say that the heralds
then were delighted to have someone who would pay up; the arms would
easily be classified as 'ancient'.
Mind you Dugdale in his Lancs visitation of 1664-5 was of a very
different metal, taking morbid pleasure out of destroying arms he
considered venal.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/
In article <1176117669.849093.160670@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
"John Brandon" <starbuck95@hotmail.com> wrote:
What a splendid thing to post and then wander away from.
The 1665 visitation informant was the father, still alive, so arms and
the immediate ancestry of Thomas, "a merchant in Virginia," are proved
(though, NB, the informant told the herald that proof of the arms was to
be found in the Visitation of Berkshire, but nothing was found there,
which puts this in an ambiguous armorial class with, for example, the
witch Mrs. Codman of Connecticut). To clinch the genealogy, is there a
sound publication to show that the son referred to in the visitation is
the one of the same name in VA from whom descents are traced? If there
is no doubt about the identity the Virginia man, have no Bradley
descendants really ever noticed this, and thrust it into the American
royal descent literature before? This Bradley is not in the _Ancestral
Roots_ or _Plantagenet Ancestry_ series.
A pedigree and arms *are* shown in the Berks. Visitation, 2:80-81, but
maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "proof of
arms" (something like the statement that the arms were granted to so-
and-so, a specific person depicted in the pedigree?)...
http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/ ... index.html
Yes, I saw wthis. That pedigree in the 1665 Berks. visitation ed. looks
like it is from the same source as that published in the Yorks. one, but
it has the added note that the proof is not found in any other
Visitation as Bradley said it would be. It isn't clear whether the
father was claiming a prior grant or simply ancient usage confirmed by
an earlier visitation; in any case, the herald noted that nothing was
found, but the arms were not disclaimed. This doesn't affect the
genealogy, because no ancient (agnatic) lineage was claimed, but it is
an interesting note on status.
On the basis that many of the disclaimers were principally trying to
avoid paying the herald's fees, one is tempted to say that the heralds
then were delighted to have someone who would pay up; the arms would
easily be classified as 'ancient'.
Mind you Dugdale in his Lancs visitation of 1664-5 was of a very
different metal, taking morbid pleasure out of destroying arms he
considered venal.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/
-
Brad Verity
Re: Descent From Edward III For Thomas Bradley of New Kent C
On Apr 8, 5:41 pm, Nathaniel Taylor <nathanieltay...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Sorry about the wandering away. I volunteered to be the Non-Fiction
Librarian for the Richard III Society American branch. I had to go up
to Carson City and collect the Library from the previous librarian.
Now my home is full of boxes and bags with hundreds of books and
articles on medieval England c.1400-1500 (including 'Complete
Peerage'!) for me to sort through and get organized. I'm in heaven!
Dr. Thomas Bradley seemed unaware of his ancestry further back than
his grandfather. Clay, in his 1899 Additions to Dugdale, couldn't
trace the family back any further, either.
None that I'm aware of. But I haven't studied colonial Virginia and
don't even know which periodicals cover the era.
No one, Bradley descendants or otherwise (at least from what I could
find by Googling), seems to have bothered to find out what happened to
the merchant Thomas Bradley from Dugdale's 1665 pedigree once he got
to Virginia ... until Donald Bradley and a couple of other
participants on the Bradley Family Genealogy Forum that I linked to in
the initial post. I wrote to Donald Bradley asking for further
information, but haven't yet heard back.
As for why it hasn't been put into royal descent literature before - I
don't know. Perhaps the Frances Savile royal descent isn't
immediately obvious? I knew a granddaughter of Eleanor Beauchamp
Beaufort, Duchess of Somerset, had married a Savile because I had
looked into some of the Duchess's descendants previously. I would
have had no clue to the royal descent of Frances Savile's Cary mother
if it hadn't have been for Stirnet. There is no Savile of Pomfret
pedigree in Dugdale's 1665 Yorkshire Visitation, so someone coming
across VA merchant Thomas Bradley in that volume wouldn't be able to
immediately flip a page to his mother's ancestry.
I'm often confused as to how or why individuals are included in those
series. But I didn't post on Thomas Bradley in order to have him
included in either of those - he just fell into my own project of
trying to determine which families in all of the Yorkshire Visitation
pedigrees are descendants of Edward I. Since GARDs are such popular
topics on the newsgroup, as I come across any (or any other notable -
or otherwise interesting - people) in the families I'm looking at, I
post about them.
I'm only up to the 'B's - so bear with me, it'll be a long project!
I'll let the newsgroup know if I hear back from Donald Bradley.
Cheers, --------Brad
wrote:
What a splendid thing to post and then wander away from.
Sorry about the wandering away. I volunteered to be the Non-Fiction
Librarian for the Richard III Society American branch. I had to go up
to Carson City and collect the Library from the previous librarian.
Now my home is full of boxes and bags with hundreds of books and
articles on medieval England c.1400-1500 (including 'Complete
Peerage'!) for me to sort through and get organized. I'm in heaven!
The 1665 visitation informant was the father, still alive, so arms and
the immediate ancestry of Thomas, "a merchant in Virginia," are proved
(though, NB, the informant told the herald that proof of the arms was to
be found in the Visitation of Berkshire, but nothing was found there,
which puts this in an ambiguous armorial class with, for example, the
witch Mrs. Codman of Connecticut).
Dr. Thomas Bradley seemed unaware of his ancestry further back than
his grandfather. Clay, in his 1899 Additions to Dugdale, couldn't
trace the family back any further, either.
To clinch the genealogy, is there a
sound publication to show that the son referred to in the visitation is
the one of the same name in VA from whom descents are traced?
None that I'm aware of. But I haven't studied colonial Virginia and
don't even know which periodicals cover the era.
If there
is no doubt about the identity the Virginia man, have no Bradley
descendants really ever noticed this, and thrust it into the American
royal descent literature before?
No one, Bradley descendants or otherwise (at least from what I could
find by Googling), seems to have bothered to find out what happened to
the merchant Thomas Bradley from Dugdale's 1665 pedigree once he got
to Virginia ... until Donald Bradley and a couple of other
participants on the Bradley Family Genealogy Forum that I linked to in
the initial post. I wrote to Donald Bradley asking for further
information, but haven't yet heard back.
As for why it hasn't been put into royal descent literature before - I
don't know. Perhaps the Frances Savile royal descent isn't
immediately obvious? I knew a granddaughter of Eleanor Beauchamp
Beaufort, Duchess of Somerset, had married a Savile because I had
looked into some of the Duchess's descendants previously. I would
have had no clue to the royal descent of Frances Savile's Cary mother
if it hadn't have been for Stirnet. There is no Savile of Pomfret
pedigree in Dugdale's 1665 Yorkshire Visitation, so someone coming
across VA merchant Thomas Bradley in that volume wouldn't be able to
immediately flip a page to his mother's ancestry.
This Bradley is not in the _Ancestral
Roots_ or _Plantagenet Ancestry_ series.
I'm often confused as to how or why individuals are included in those
series. But I didn't post on Thomas Bradley in order to have him
included in either of those - he just fell into my own project of
trying to determine which families in all of the Yorkshire Visitation
pedigrees are descendants of Edward I. Since GARDs are such popular
topics on the newsgroup, as I come across any (or any other notable -
or otherwise interesting - people) in the families I'm looking at, I
post about them.
I'm only up to the 'B's - so bear with me, it'll be a long project!
I'll let the newsgroup know if I hear back from Donald Bradley.
Cheers, --------Brad